Decklink Extreme needed for HDR over HDMI?

Hello,

My friend has a Samsung Ks8000 and I'm wondering if connecting a desktop (win10 + geforce 1070) over hdmi would allow HDR grading in resolve if the tv is the target display. Or is the decklink required?

Thanks!

Most HDR TVs if not all don't have a setting to switch to HDR mode. This is only done automatically. 2 triggers are- proper headers detected on HDMI connection or playing file internally in TV with correct headers.
If you want to use it for grading than you need HDMI to be able to trigger HDR mode in your TV. Decklink Extreme has such an option. Other way is this box:

https://www.hdfury.com/shop/splitters/i ... 44-600mhz/

which can inject HDR metadata into HDMI signal.

It should be added here that the true HDR10 mode of those "Premium UHD TVs" is not to be confused with the fake "HDR+" mode (at least this is how Samsung calls it) - the latter can be turned on in the TV's picture settings, but if one wants to grade for HDR he/she should stay away from it!

As Andrew said: once the signal from HDMI is truly HDR10-complaint, the Samsung HDR sets will switch to their true HDR mode automatically and let you know about it by briefly displaying a pop-up info.

Piotr

My Panasonic DX902/DXW904 can be manually forced into HDR mode. REC2020 gamut and ST2084 gamma are separate options here.

But beware grading HDR on consumer displays. Most if not all have a gamma curve that doesn't match ST2084 at all and their max. brightness is often below 1000cd/m2.

Strange that most TVs won't let you do this (even as some advanced option). Maybe it's about power consumption, so people don't jump, turn on HDR and start watching "normal" content in HDR mode
HDR is overall problematic as it has to fit into many regulation regarding TVs' power consumption restrictions.

All TVs that won't you let to trigger HDR color space aren't suitable as a grading monitor either.

If you want accurate HDR grading you need an accurate monitor. None of the consumer TVs is made for this nor can it calibrated to do so.

So why bother?

My Panasonic DX902/DXW904 can be manually forced into HDR mode. REC2020 gamut and ST2084 gamma are separate options here.

But beware grading HDR on consumer displays. Most if not all have a gamma curve that doesn't match ST2084 at all and their max. brightness is often below 1000cd/m2.

Do you use DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G to feed the signal for your Panasonic?
Did you manage to calibrate the TV?

I've just got Panasonic DX900, waiting for DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G and calibration. I'm just wondering how good it can stand as compared to Sony BVM X300.

I'm not sure why so many people assume straight away that a person needs A grade monitor? Do you have in your room Sony or Dolby? According to your logic if you can't afford it, means you should forget about producing any content. Nothing more wrong.
95% of people on this forum can't afford Sony or Dolby and they don't have to. They are not representing high-end finishing company (even they don't have Sony/Dolby monitor in each suite) and they can use good consumer TV to make their masters, nothing wrong with it. Level of their work allows them to do so.
Whole grading accuracy has its massive limits also (specially when content is not going to Blu-ray/cinema etc), so don't trust e.g. Dolby so much. The same as you can do nice grading, or editing using 5 different software you can also do nice looking video on good consumer TV.
You just have to know what you are doing and understand all limitations in your workflow.

True.

But if you don't see what you do it becomes a mysterious business.

You don't need a Grade A at all.
But if you want to do color grading as a business you need to calibrate.
It's that easy.

True.

But if you don't see what you do it becomes a mysterious business.

You don't need a Grade A at all.
But if you want to do color grading as a business you need to calibrate.
It's that easy.

"Mysterious business"- yes, this can be a problem and this is dangerous area. This is what you should try to avoid, which brings you to my bold sentence

I'm not sure why so many people assume straight away that a person needs A grade monitor? Do you have in your room Sony or Dolby? According to your logic if you can't afford it, means you should forget about producing any content. Nothing more wrong.
95% of people on this forum can't afford Sony or Dolby and they don't have to. They are not representing high-end finishing company (even they don't have Sony/Dolby monitor in each suite) and they can use good consumer TV to make their masters, nothing wrong with it. Level of their work allows them to do so.
Whole grading accuracy has its massive limits also (specially when content is not going to Blu-ray/cinema etc), so don't trust e.g. Dolby so much. The same as you can do nice grading, or editing using 5 different software you can also do nice looking video on good consumer TV.
You just have to know what you are doing and understand all limitations in your workflow.

in one side I agree with you, on the other side, most likely if you're not going to bother with a good monitor your not going to bother with calibration either. then is definitely a mysterious business...

I'm not sure why so many people assume straight away that a person needs A grade monitor? Do you have in your room Sony or Dolby? According to your logic if you can't afford it, means you should forget about producing any content. Nothing more wrong.
95% of people on this forum can't afford Sony or Dolby and they don't have to. They are not representing high-end finishing company (even they don't have Sony/Dolby monitor in each suite) and they can use good consumer TV to make their masters, nothing wrong with it. Level of their work allows them to do so.
Whole grading accuracy has its massive limits also (specially when content is not going to Blu-ray/cinema etc), so don't trust e.g. Dolby so much. The same as you can do nice grading, or editing using 5 different software you can also do nice looking video on good consumer TV.
You just have to know what you are doing and understand all limitations in your workflow.

+1000 on that. Don't get me wrong, but ever since I dared to mention on this Forum that I (then a complete newbie) am grading for HDR on my SUHD, I was attacked by many experienced users who implied I don't even know what I was talking about. And yet (with a help of equally experienced, but more open-minded persons like Andrew) I'm now happily producing stunning HDR deliverables, on par with a couple of Premium UHD makers like LG's or Sony's own promo HDR clips I found on the Internet.... And, I have since had Samsung Poland's engineers calibrated my SUHD (pls don't ask how they did it or what hw/sw they used; they asked me to send my set in and never shared this knowledge with me). But sending my TV back to me, they attached some "before" and "after" samples and I dare say my SUHD is now calibrated; of course I'll need to repeat it at least once a year.

Piotr

That's interesting Piotr.

As I need to calibrate my Panasonic as well I'm really interested in your calibration.
Can you share a validation report?

It can easily be done with the free version of Lightspace CMS and a i1Display probe.

It should be added here that the true HDR10 mode of those "Premium UHD TVs" is not to be confused with the fake "HDR+" mode (at least this is how Samsung calls it) - the latter can be turned on in the TV's picture settings, but if one wants to grade for HDR he/she should stay away from it!

As Andrew said: once the signal from HDMI is truly HDR10-complaint, the Samsung HDR sets will switch to their true HDR mode automatically and let you know about it by briefly displaying a pop-up info.

Piotr

What are you using to go from Resolve to your tv?
Output as DNXHR XQ then Hybrid or FFMPEG?

FFMPEG it is - there is a (longish) thread here in this forum where Andrew is helping me use it properly to output HEVC 10 bit clips.

Piotr

PS. Oh, and as to the output from Resolve/input to FFMPEG: I indeed use DHxHR because that's what I cache to during grades/edits in DR, so by re-using the cache exports can be a breeze. But a 10bit YUV codec like Cineform will suffice, as well - I often export this when my timeline is short and/or the project didn't require caching at all...

I use Hybrid from Selur. A great APP with all you'll ever need. You csn msnually set all the flags for HDR. The dev is very friendly.

For the HDR and Davinci Resolve, I never found better than that:
http://www.mysterybox.us/blog/2016/10/2 ... vering-hdr
http://www.mysterybox.us/blog/2016/11/7 ... with-a-lut