Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

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John Richard

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Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostTue Jan 10, 2017 5:31 pm

Any distinguishable performance differences between these dual GPU card setups working on 1080p and 4k source footage?
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John Richard

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostFri Jan 13, 2017 1:40 pm

Strange ... there were 5 responses to this request for advice and now these responses are missing.

We went with dual GTX 1080 graphics cards. Did not find a lot of info or advice on this comparison for DR.
As we still mostly work with 1080p and 2k Raw from the original BM Cinema Cam it did not appear to make sense going the dual Titan Pascal route.

Hope we made the right decision with this build. Was hoping for more guidance from BM. Additionally, the turnkey builders of Resolve workstations seem to mostly agree that the dual Xeon motherboard system in the the official BM config guide is no longer the best solution and outdated. So if your setting up a new workstation to run Resolve, you may want to do your homework. I am far from knowledgeable on building a workstation and what I learned since I last built my own was how much things have changed and little I now know. Best solution for me is to rely on the pros. ADK Systems is who we relied on this go around. Tip of the hat to colorist and trainer Robbie Carman for the tip on this turnkey builder.
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Jay Turberville

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostFri Jan 13, 2017 6:18 pm

I'm curious. What is the current recommended platform? Is it a single CPU running at high clock rates?
www.studio522.com
Resolve 12.5.4
SuperMicro X8DT3 w/ 2x 5670 Xeon 20GB
GeForce GTX560 Ti 1GB
Windows 7
or
Resolve 12.5.4
HP Z600 w/ 2x 5670 Xeon 24GB
Dual SSD 240GB in RAID1 (480GB)
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alexoreman

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostFri Jan 13, 2017 7:28 pm

On the Titan X pascal front I would just wait for the 1080Ti to drop which will also have the same chip set that is in the titan X pascal card and 10-12GB of Vram and be widely available from OEMs. The current Titan X pascal is only available direct from Nvidia, it makes it hard to purchase enough of them to fill out a few systems and you don't get the factory overclocked versions.

Base clock rates have been less important as the processor technology has improved, my only experience is with Linux based dual processor systems and I still have not seen anything able to touch that level of performance. Currently seeing dual 24 core processors all lit up when pushing 4K EXR to 60P, it definitely uses the power effectively as well as having the PCIE bandwidth to support 6-8 new pascal cards.

When working with higher end 4K or higher EXR or similar system intensive formats the throughput of single processor systems just chokes out very quickly while the ceiling for these high end systems just keeps expanding. Also keep in mind that without dual processors you are halving your Pcie Lanes.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostFri Jan 13, 2017 8:08 pm

It's a lot down to Resolve rather unimpressive performance.
I don't really see a reason why would you need dual 24 Xeon to "decode" 4K 60p EXR sequence.
What about DPX, this should not use much CPU at all.
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alexoreman

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostFri Jan 13, 2017 8:23 pm

Professional level production is no longer reliant on DPX.

EXR offers an almost unlimited potential for embedding information that is critical to modern finishing.


If you want to save space on your expensive production storage you compress those EXRs and make the platforms CPU decompress them on the fly (while it is doing everything else required of it to run a session)

I have not seen any "unimpressive performance" when building the appropriate system for the job and using it correctly yet or I wouldn't want to use this platform.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostFri Jan 13, 2017 8:44 pm

I have to agree with Andre, A lot of slow cores is really only useful if you are trans-coding in parallel, and even then you need to be careful with the cpu/motherboard combinations or you could easily end up I/O limited.

If you start RAIDing SATA drives real world tests shows the DMI 2.0 connections to them become saturated around 1.6 GB/s.

The same thing happens if you Raid M.2 PCIe 3.0x4 drives, They 4 become saturated around 3.5 GB/s.
Last edited by Dan Sherman on Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dariobigi

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostFri Jan 13, 2017 9:19 pm

Cores are for Transcoding. (Very helpful with H264 playback) GPUs are just that. Graphics Processing. Realtime is needed because we aren't grading stills. If you can wait for buffering... save a buck but life to to short to watch progress bars (been doing it all my life and I'm old now and I've learned to buy my time back. :)
Dario Bigi, Editor / Colorist CSI
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HP z840 - Dual 14 Core 2.6GHz - 64GB RAM - 2 TitanX 12GB - Internal SSD 8TB Raid Win 10 Pro 1607 - Resolve 12.5.3 Studio - Fusion 8.2.1 Studio- FSI CM250 - BT300 w/HD-SDI
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostFri Jan 13, 2017 9:35 pm

alexoreman wrote:Professional level production is no longer reliant on DPX.

EXR offers an almost unlimited potential for embedding information that is critical to modern finishing.


If you want to save space on your expensive production storage you compress those EXRs and make the platforms CPU decompress them on the fly (while it is doing everything else required of it to run a session)

I have not seen any "unimpressive performance" when building the appropriate system for the job and using it correctly yet or I wouldn't want to use this platform.


So for your appropriate means "take 2x 24 cores Xeons with 4 Titans" and it will be great. Well, what about half of these resources with 2x more efficient software- is this not better?

Most EXR compression schemes are very simple and old. Most are lossless where compression is unknown until you actually do it. In real (not CGI) source the best what you can get is in reality 2x compression, where some grainy frames can compress only as much as 10%.
If you build a workflow and think about using losslessly compressed EXRs you still have to design it, so it can work with same bandwidth as uncompressed EXRs. You may save some disk space during project, but you can't in most cases cut required bandwidth.

Idea around EXRs is good, but actual execution is as Resolve- quite unimpressive:) ZIP compression in such a modern format?
If they added something like this into EXRs then all these layers etc could be actually uses in real projects:
https://www.cinegy.com/index.php/produc ... iel2-codec

ZIP is rather a joke and waste of CPU time. You better stick with uncompressed. State of the art GPU based (specially very fast) codec (lossy at 3x compression) could be something in EXR. In such a case you don't waste of a lot of time for data to travel between GPU and CPU- once you push data to GPU it stays there for most of the time. 3x compression is good enough to be treated as "virtually lossless" in practice.
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alexoreman

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostFri Jan 13, 2017 10:48 pm

Yes I would say having the most powerful available hardware will make technological things pretty great in my experience as long as you back that up with a thoughtful workflow end to end as you said.
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Piotr Wozniacki

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSat Jan 14, 2017 6:24 am

alexoreman wrote: Currently seeing dual 24 core processors all lit up when pushing 4K EXR to 60P, it definitely uses the power effectively as well as having the PCIE bandwidth to support 6-8 new pascal cards.[...] Also keep in mind that without dual processors you are halving your Pcie Lanes.


At the opposite end of hardware price spectrum, I'm using just a single i7 8-core CPU and dual GTX 1080. I don't use EXR, DPX - my source material is 4K@50p, XAVC-I, 600Mbps, 10bit 422 and I cache to DNxHR 444 HDR. Watching the level of load on the CPU and GPUs, I dare say I've squeezed the optimal performance out of them (and a modest, 40-lanes X99 motherboard).

Having some difficulties to run those dual GPUs and my dual-slot Decklink 12G plus the PCIe x4 M.2 card with a 1TB cache drive on the single CPU, 40-lanes motherboard, I considered very seriously upgrading to a dual-Xeon workstation - if only to get more PCIe lanes. But knowing I will probably never be grading anything heavier than my current FS7's 4K@50p (both in its in-camera 600Mbps codec and in the DNxHR HQX codec from the Atomos Shogun Inferno I just purchased), I think the current configuration of my Resolve PC will serve me well for a couple of years...

I can imagine all your 48 cores "all lit up" - but at what load percentage? Probably some 40-50% at the most... My 8 cores are taxed at 90-100%, and so are both GPUs; this is what I consider a full resources utilization :) So I'm quite happy now with my hardware, even though I indeed am able to have a cup of coffee or two while cache-rendering all clips in a medium-length timeline...

Piotr
Grading system: DaVinci Resolve Studio; Asus X-99 Pro/USB3.1; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; 480 GB SSD system drive; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G driving Samsung SUHD calibrated monitor
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John Richard

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSat Jan 14, 2017 8:49 pm

What I learned from the research for this new DR/AfterEffects/Premiere workstation is:
It is not an easy question to answer unless you have a $20k + budget or are an expert workstation builder yourself. If you've got the deep pockets and have earned the never ending high budget workflow that some talented folks who come here to help have, you have to make some judicious decisions based upon the economics.

I, for one, made a very bad economic decision to hang onto an 8 yr old 3,1 MacPro/Dual Xeon/24gb Ram/nVidia Quadro 2gb/8TB PCie controlled external raid/BM Multibridge Pro2 I/O workstation. It was a beast for the time. But here's the important part - labor hours are a far bigger cost factor to consider. A small percentage labor hours cut quickly justifies a new workstation cost. And speed of final product delivery is a big factor for customer service. I should have changed out years ago.

To make these wise decisions on a sub $20k budget, IMHO you need to start the process by answering 2 usage questions:

1. What software will you predominately run on the workstation? If you're 100% Resolve then focus your budget on multiple nVidia GPU's. If you're running a mix of Resolve, After Effects, Premiere and encoding final deliverables on the same machine it's a different story and must consider pushing the budget toward CPU.

2. What is the predominant file source type and resolution you work with? 1080p, 2k, 4k, etc. frame rate, codecs (h.264, ProRes flavors, DNXHD, DPX, etc) and project type and length. This tells you where to spend your budget - if working with heavily compressed codecs i.e. DSLR's h.264 (not recommended if it's your choice for source file) then you want to budget for better CPU. If working with 4k multiple streams or higher resolution footage then budget towards multiple SSD's to push through to prevent the data bottleneck from feeding the CPU and GPU.

Answering these 2 questions will guide you to your decisions in a workstation.

What was interesting currently in the many benchmarks that relied on actual use of NLE, compositing, and grading software was the "balance" between CPU/Frequency speed, CPU cores, GPU, and data read/write bandwidth. Again, depending on your answers to 1 & 2 above, there is often a balance point of the whole SYSTEM ... the benchmark would hit an individual component bottleneck that would stop the other components from attaining their performance capacities. Example you may have 2 or 3 Titan Pascals but they were hampered by hitting the CPU performance limit so you may as well have gone with GTX 1080's.

Most of the workstation builders of the $10k max budget are currently (1/2017) recommending against the dual Xeon systems. The dual Xeon multiple cores, say 24 cores, under-perform a less expensive single i7 2650 3.0ghz CPU with 10 cores. Take that savings of not going dual Xeon motherboard/CPU's and put it towards the GPU's and fast SSD drives instead of spinning platters. And in the sub $10k class workstation, the dual Titan Pascal vs dual GTX 1080 does not give the performance bang for the buck investment that would be better invested elsewhere in the workflow unless you are working regularly with multiple 4k streams or higher resolution source footage.

Also commonly recommended was 64 - 128 gb of ram as a good place for investment.

The one final thought is to go with a motherboard that has the most 16X PCIe slots, space, and Thunderbolt3/USB-C capability. More slots and space and Thunderbolt3 give you some future proofing breathing room for new GPU, I/O card changes, fibre/network raid/shared storage growth. And Thunderbolt3, while just starting to see products capitalizing on it's daisy chained bandwidth boost on the Windows platform, is looking to hold promise for monitors, PCIe external expanders, and high bandwidth external storage.

Thank you to all who help with these tough $ questions and their real life results.
It is certainly understandable that Blackmagic Design has a tough assignment keeping up with recommended configuration guides. They hold a big responsibility with their guidance and therefore have to deal the matrix of formats Resolve handles, and real life testing of the quickly changing multiple components. How do you keep up with real world benchmarking to find the right balance configuration of all these formats and components that are quickly changing. And the labor/material costs of staying up to date is no small feat.

So take my research results knowing that I have not as of yet personally been able to real life test the results until the workstation is delivered. When I've run the new beast through its paces I'll report back
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSat Jan 14, 2017 9:40 pm

wise words:

labor hours are a far bigger cost factor to consider. A small percentage labor hours cut quickly justifies a new workstation cost
Walter Volpatto - C.S.I.
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Inb4YouCanJustColorComments: yes you can, good luck with that.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSat Jan 14, 2017 10:16 pm

Most of the workstation builders of the $10k max budget are currently (1/2017) recommending against the dual Xeon systems. The dual Xeon multiple cores, say 24 cores, under-perform a less expensive single i7 2650 3.0ghz CPU with 10 cores. Take that savings of not going dual Xeon motherboard/CPU's and put it towards the GPU's


as noted earlier, you need dual CPU's to access the needed PCIE lanes

and fast SSD drives instead of spinning platters.

depends on what you are finishing, if you need to have three of four features alive at a time, then spinning disks is the answer, i have two arrays, one with 16 disks, one with 12, they playback 4kEXR @ 24fps all day long, adn that's what is needed, any further disk i/o speed is of no real world value, haveing enough space to cache the shows your are working on is of real world value.. i'd question that advice closely

Code: Select all
It is not an easy question to answer unless you have a $20k + budget or are an expert workstation builder yourself. I


not so sure about the 20k thing tho.. a used z840 / dual 2683v3 (28 cores total, 56 cores hyperthreaded) / 8gig ram / no video card / 1125w power supply = 3K on fleabay today, there's tons more, that's just the first one i stopped at...

add in 96gig ram / mirrored sys SSD's / 2 x 1080Ti's / TB2 card / 4k decklink / Lsi SAS controler

you will still have change left from your 20k ;-)



it will run like a sledgehammer for years and years to come, long after it's been amorted... and will need nothing more than being kept clean, cool, dust feee and dry, and the OS/software updated... no need to be a computer mechanic

my dual xeon based machines have been dead realiable, and generating income for over a decade now with next to zero downtime - my oldest working machine is a xw8200 from 2005, it's at home now running MC
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Blake LaFarm

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSat Jan 14, 2017 10:54 pm

I agree with Dermot. No need to reinvent the wheel here. Spend a little time with the DaVinci Configuration Guide. A used HP Z840, plus the other necessities, is actually quite affordable and has the added advantage of being recommended by Blackmagic (see link above), Avid, Adobe and others for their post production software platforms. It's natural to over-think this (I do it all the time) -- but it's not necessary. All those research hours are better spent using the computer and software to create something.
HP Z840 | Dual 10-Core Xeon 2.3GHz | Dual TITAN X Pascal | 64GB RAM | PCIe SSD 2GB/s
DeckLink 4K Ext 12G | Pocket UltraScope | Avid Artist Color | CalMAN Studio/C6-HDR
Resolve Studio 12.5.4.019 | Fusion Studio 8.2.1 | Avid MC Symph 8.7 | Win10 Pro 1607
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John Richard

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 2:30 am

In support of the newer info provided by the workstation builders advising that dual CPU Xeon's are not the best choice for their cost, here are some of their statements and benchmarking done after the BM Aug 2016 configuration guide:

"You will notice that we didn't even include a dual CPU configuration in our list of recommended CPUs. Frankly, Premiere Pro simply is not capable of taking advantage of the larger number of cores available in a dual CPU configuration. At best, they were slightly faster than the single CPU options, but mostly they performed either the same or slower. Some of that is likely due to Adobe's recent focus on GPU acceleration (which should yield much higher performance gains for the majority of users), but whatever the reason, dual CPUs simply don't make sense for the majority of users." Puget Systems
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-2015-3-CPU-Comparison-849/
Caveat - this benchmarking and recommendation was for Premiere which is being programmed to use GPU processing more and more. While it is not testing of Resolve, Resolve relies heavily on GPU processing even more.

And here is the ADK System Resolve specialty system also based upon an i7 single CPU. They still do sell dual CPU Xeons, but if you talk to them they advise against the dual Xeon's as they no longer perform over the currently available i7 6850 single CPU. They have found that take that large dual Xeon investment and instead apply it to better or more GPU's, ram, drives, etc. I doubt they would provide this advice since it lowers their sale. And these are workstations built for Resolve. And I started off trying to order a dual Xeon system based upon the Aug 2016 BM Config Guide. And I am moving on from what was a beast 2008 dual Xeon based MacPro.
https://www.adkvideoediting.com/resolve-adk-3900-x99-4k-video-production-desktop

As I prequalified my prior statements, I am certainly no computer expert by any means. And I do not have the workstation yet. It is possible this info is wrong. My only point in posting what I learned so far is that the dual Xeon's may be outdated info and someone in my position should probably investigate beyond the Aug 2016 guide as of Jan 2017.

And this is benchmarking applicable to the 1 version of Premiere back which also relies on GPU/Cuda:
Go to about 20 mins in for the discussion of current i7 6850 single CPU vs double the price dual Xeons performing slower. The whole presentation made at the last NAB is a great overall training of the current state of workstations/hardware for our industry.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 3:36 am

Pp is not Resolve... it seems you will run out of lanes needed for Resolve with a single CPU..

the cost/benifit is weighing new i7 vs new dual xeon's -not- a new i7 vs refurb'd z840 with 2x 14core xeon's, 1125w power supply and case @ under 3k

that said, i'd make very sure the lanes on the single i7's MB support dual GPU's, SAS raid controler, I/O card, Tb2 card without chokeing, the power supply is up to the task and the fans are able to cope with long renders.. all the things that HP (and SuperMicro) do so well...

the advice from Resolve, Baselight, Nucoda, Flame, Luster, Quantel to go with a workstation class machine in 2017 is valid, machine's like the z840 and the SuperMicro workstations are greater than the sum of the parts, they are well built, and well thought out top to tail, not a collection of bit and bob's

And the advice to use SSD's is very questionable, and "questionable" is really a polite way of saying....
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 3:57 am

Dermot Shane wrote:
And the advice to use SSD's is very questionable, and "questionable" is really a polite way of saying....


I agree, and here is a really obscure YouTube video that shows why.
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Piotr Wozniacki

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 4:37 am

alexoreman wrote:Currently seeing dual 24 core processors all lit up when pushing 4K EXR to 60P, it definitely uses the power effectively as well as having the PCIE bandwidth to support 6-8 new pascal cards.


Out of curiosity, could we see your results from the "candle" benchmark? Thanks,

Piotr
Grading system: DaVinci Resolve Studio; Asus X-99 Pro/USB3.1; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; 480 GB SSD system drive; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G driving Samsung SUHD calibrated monitor
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John Richard

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 2:47 pm

Dermot Shane wrote:Pp is not Resolve... it seems you will run out of lanes needed for Resolve with a single CPU..

the cost/benifit is weighing new i7 vs new dual xeon's -not- a new i7 vs refurb'd z840 with 2x 14core xeon's, 1125w power supply and case @ under 3k

that said, i'd make very sure the lanes on the single i7's MB support dual GPU's, SAS raid controler, I/O card, Tb2 card without chokeing, the power supply is up to the task and the fans are able to cope with long renders.. all the things that HP (and SuperMicro) do so well...

the advice from Resolve, Baselight, Nucoda, Flame, Luster, Quantel to go with a workstation class machine in 2017 is valid, machine's like the z840 and the SuperMicro workstations are greater than the sum of the parts, they are well built, and well thought out top to tail, not a collection of bit and bob's

And the advice to use SSD's is very questionable, and "questionable" is really a polite way of saying....


First and foremost, remember the budget was a max $10,000 workstation (that includes any storage such as an internal/external raid). New dual Xeons and a new raid mentioned and multiple nVidia Pascal GPU's mentioned would probably break the $10k max budget.

As regards the X99 motherboard lanes (assume the question means PCIe slot lanes):
40-Lane CPU-4 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (single at x16, dual at x16/x16, triple at x16/x16/x8, quintuple at x8/x8/x8/x8/x8 mode)
28-Lane CPU-
3 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (x16, x16/x8, x8/x8/x8)
28-Lane CPU-
1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x1 mode)
1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (max at x4 mode)
1 x PCIe 2.0 x1

The number of PCIe slots/lanes in this $10k max budget machine will support of combo of dual nVidia GPU's, BM I/O card, and raid controller or internal raid. And Thunderbolt 3 is already part of this motherboard.
Again, please check out this link provided on the published specs:
https://www.adkvideoediting.com/resolve-adk-3900-x99-4k-video-production-desktop

The question of durability is not possible to answer of course. Our now 9 yr old dual Xeon in the MacPro is still chugging along as are all the other components. But as I said earlier, the hard lesson learned was using this workstation for 8 yrs was a big economic mistake from a labor standpoint. Just the limitation of a single Quadro 4000 for the Mac 2gb and all the lost labor time was a very bad economic decision on my part. And with deadlines I admit to many times not having the luxury of using some of the Resolve tools and Sapphire filters that would have made a better final product because the render times were prohibitive. Do I really want to use a workstation for more than 3-5 years and cost us labor and possibly be forced to produce a lower quality deliverable than we could have. Yes, the HP's Z class are very fine machines indeed. However, if you spec one out with Dual Xeon's, 2 ea GTX 1080 GPU's, 64-128gb ram, a SSD OS drive and a media scratch drive and a 3rd fast source footage drive or a raid controller/external raid ... you have exceeded the $10k max budget by quite a bit. Finally on longevity, whether we like it or not, the manufacturers all seem to end of life the hardware/software before the hardware stops working. Even my beloved Blackmagic ended support for our still functioning Multibridge Pro2. It's still running fine with old BM software but it is limited to output to a calibrated external monitor which is all we really need at this point.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 3:10 pm

Dan Sherman wrote:
Dermot Shane wrote:
And the advice to use SSD's is very questionable, and "questionable" is really a polite way of saying....


I agree, and here is a really obscure YouTube video that shows why.


All what this proves is that motherboards' RAID controllers have limited resources.
It does not prove that SSDs are bad in any way.

Any good advice can be given only when requirements and usage case is clearly stated.
Without this you can recommend monster machine or single i7/GPU machine and both system can be good advice. You just won't know this until you hear what this machine is going to be used for. We live in real world and not everyone can have fastest machine on the market.

If you work with intermediate codecs (ProRes, DNxHR etc) you can build HDDs based RAID. If you going to touch DPX, EXRs at UHD then SSDs may be needed (for each SSDs you need 3xHDDs when it comes to speed). Regardless of bandwidth needs, SSDs are alway more responsive (and you can even feel this difference in NLE timeline). They don't have any real minuses compared to HDDs, except size.

Good system has to be well balanced and targeted to your needs, not try to be the fastest in every aspect.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jean Claude

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 3:32 pm

For a budget of $ 10k, I would bother to move with some clips to do a full-size test. Uh .... $ 10k is still a big budget.
Windows 10 PRO X64 | DaVinci Resolve Studio 14.0.1 | Fusion Studio 9.0.1
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 4:07 pm

wheee... lets go shopping!

Ebay for the machine & RAM, local craigslist for the raid and hba, local computer store (NCIX) for drives and 1080's.... i'd spend around $8,000 USD for this lot;

refurb'd z840 / dual 2683's / 16g / 1125w power / 5yr warrentee = $2,475
additional 80 gig ram = $730
2 x 500gig EVO850 SSD's for mirrored C drive = $375
2 x gtx1080 = $1,200
TB2 card =
Lenovo 12 slot SAS cage = $700
LsiHBA/Raid = $125
14 x WDRed Pro 7200rpm 2Tb drives = $2,350
BMD 4k mini monitor = $200

notes;
- there's alot of room in there for shipping etc, we are well under the 10k limit
- it would take me a weekend to put this together, mirror the boot disks, install windoze, format the RAID, but i also could ask a local intergrator ot take it on, they would charge around $500.. so add that cost if you prefer
- 14 drives = one for internal misc crap use + a spare drive for the raid... used the same drives i have in one of my arrays, 20Tb formatted RAID5 is the least storage i'd want to have, but i work in the world of features and tv movies mainly
- i included a mirrored SSD boot drive
- i could not find a price on the HP tbolt card online, and i do not have access to the invoice from HP for the one i have in my z820, and it might be wworth leapfrogging and getting a cheapass USB3.1 anyway, but what ever the thought would be - there's plenty of room in the budget
- some of the links below are in CDN, i roughly converted @25% - but agaian there's plenty of headroom in this rough budget, similarly to shipping costs....
- i would also install an AJA i/o card for other software, but not in thos budget as you have not indicated any intrest in that, so not fair to ask that of a i7 build
- i did this as i may be putting a machine in a client's space for a year or two on a longterm project, likely they will get my existing z820, and i'll replace that at homebase with something similar to this lot.. i was doing this for myself anyway, so it's not all about you ;-)

the links;
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/HP-Z840-Workstat ... Swo4pYM3SO
http://www.ncix.com/detail/evga-geforce ... omoid=1120
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/16GB-2X8GB-Memor ... OEBoRoLUBg
http://www.ncix.com/detail/western-digi ... 135646.htm
https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/bnc/sys/5912456680.html
https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/sop/5930345348.html
http://www.ncix.com/detail/samsung-850- ... 120451.htm
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John Richard

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 5:29 pm

That build is certainly a possibility if you either have the confidence to do it (I do not and wouldn't want to rely on my problem solving and the labor loss) or know of a reliable builder that would take it on and warranty the parts you supply (doubtful).

And you're still at about $8,000 and now you are in the hodge podge workstation and not compliant with "machine's like the z840 and the SuperMicro workstations are greater than the sum of the parts, they are well built, and well thought out top to tail" realm ... and you are now in the "...a collection of bit and bob's" realm... all to get to dual Xeon's.

For the same price you could get a reliable turnkey solution with a warranty and support but admittedly with far less storage. So if you are working on multiple large projects and high rez footage and are stuck with that budget, that might be the way you have to go. And I am seriously jealous of folks who have such technical capability to get into that deep. It's truly also an artistic talent to be prized.

I hope the geniuses at Blackmagic who truly know Resolve inside and out do test out the current batch of dual Xeon's vs. i76950 in a Resolve real world. I could find no such real world benchmarking. The only benchmarking of software that manipulates video ones and zeros that relies heavily on GPU processing that compared dual Xeon's vs i7 CPU's was the ones provided previously that was presented at NAB. And the results showed no current advantage of the much higher cost dual Xeon's. Maybe BM will tell us if they have tested a recent i76900 series system running Resolve. Knowing that would be very beneficial to people making decisions to believe what the turnkey guys are telling us.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 5:39 pm

you're still at about $8,000 and now you are in the hodge podge workstation and not compliant with "machine's like the z840

all compliant with published spec's for Ressolve top to tail, not "hodge podge", only purchased from price competive vendor's and installed by myself or any 12 year old that's nearby...

the inatallation is fast and easy with the z840, no tools needed what so ever.. designed to come apart and go back together cleanly... the hardest thing will be to plug in a molex to 8pin power connector for the second 1080, that's the only thing that i can see that could be a small challenge

if you are working on multiple large projects and high rez footage and are stuck with that budget, that might be the way you have to go

Yea, that would be me, i currently have two arrays, one with 12 x 4Tb, and 16 x 2Tb, and they are both near 80% today.. it comes and goes, but rarely do i see under the 50% mark, around 8Tb of this is footage that stays on the system permenatly, commercial source footage that gets re-used endlessly, sky plates etc, but mostly it's 4k EXR source caches for features.. i can't see waht the ROI could be on a 10k workstation that has no effective storage for more than few seconds of media


good luck, I'm sure you'll be ok, i checked the spec yesterday, at a minimum I'd mirror your sys drive

for me? glad the price of z840's does not go up until after i've grabbed a good one from fleabay for myself ;-)

i have confidence that the folks at Nucoda, Baselight, Flame, Luster, Pablo and Resolve all know a bit better than a gaming vendor on youtube tho, as they all spec varations on one or both of the same two machines... no i7's...
Last edited by Dermot Shane on Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 5:43 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Good system has to be well balanced and targeted to your needs, not try to be the fastest in every aspect.


This is what i was referring to. I've dealt with far to many people, who think the answer to any problem, is to just throw more SSDs at it.
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Jean Claude

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 5:54 pm

Dermot Shane wrote:
you're still at about $8,000 and now you are in the hodge podge workstation and not compliant with "machine's like the z840

all compliant with published spec's for Ressolve top to tail, not "hodge podge", only purchased from price competive vendor's and installed by myself or any 12 year old that's nearby...

the inatallation is fast and easy with the z840, no tools needed what so ever.. designed to come apart and go back together cleanly... the hardest thing will be to plug in a molex to 8pin power connector for the second 1080, that's the only thing that i can see that could be a challenge

anyway seems your are more into getting validation for your decision to go with a gaming machine that discussing options?

good luck, I'm sure you'll be ok, i checked the spec yesterday, at a minimum I'd mirror your sys drive

for me? glad the price of z840's does not go up until after i've grabbed a good one from fleabay for myself ;-)

i have confidence that the folks at Nucoda, Baselight, Flame, Luster, Pablo and Resolve all know a bit better than a gaming vendor on youtube tho, as they all spec varations on one or both of the same two machines... no i7's...


Where is the challenge? There are cables for that or is it a private joke?
Windows 10 PRO X64 | DaVinci Resolve Studio 14.0.1 | Fusion Studio 9.0.1
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 6:02 pm

Where is the challenge? There are cables for that or is it a private joke?


there are cables avb, but the z840 only has one 8pin i understand (i do not own a z840 yet) i know the z820 only has one 8pin - so the answer is to use a molex to 8pin cable.. and one would need to buy one from a computer store

everything else in a straight plug-in with no tools needed, SSD's, ram & the rest of the cards all plug-in to pre-wired power cables, then close the cover and power up
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Jean Claude

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 6:04 pm

OK. In case :
Http://www.ebay.com/itm/Athena-Power-Du ... 68190?hash = Item1c79f9571e: g: dDIAAOSwjDZYdDOa
Hop this help.
Windows 10 PRO X64 | DaVinci Resolve Studio 14.0.1 | Fusion Studio 9.0.1
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 6:18 pm

Dan Sherman wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Good system has to be well balanced and targeted to your needs, not try to be the fastest in every aspect.


This is what i was referring to. I've dealt with far to many people, who think the answer to any problem, is to just throw more SSDs at it.


For me it's (specially regarding Macs) - just put more RAM into it. Always makes me laugh :)
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Jean Claude

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 6:24 pm

I do not know MAC but on PC, the more memory we have, the less we use the memory swap (memory <=> hard drive) when there is not enough physical memory.
In short, MAC or PC: same fight. :)
Windows 10 PRO X64 | DaVinci Resolve Studio 14.0.1 | Fusion Studio 9.0.1
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 6:34 pm

Jean Claude wrote:I do not know MAC but on PC, the more memory we have, the less we use the memory swap (memory <=> hard drive) when there is not enough physical memory.
In short, MAC or PC: same fight. :)


yea. 96 gig is a healthy amount, i've seen Resolve alone useing 70+ gig RAM while deleting unused caches - and turning off swap space seems to be important with a SSD bootdrive to avoid killing the poor thingies early
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 6:37 pm

Some people think that RAM is a cure for all problems:)
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Jean Claude

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 6:43 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Some people think that RAM is a cure for all problems:)


Andrew, it is not 100% guaranteed, it is like drugs: it can help as long as the dosages are correctly prescribed. It seems that macs are different from PCs: I did not say anything. Oups. Sorry
Windows 10 PRO X64 | DaVinci Resolve Studio 14.0.1 | Fusion Studio 9.0.1
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 6:46 pm

by default windows determines page file size based on the total amount of ram, so if you have a lot of unused ram you will have a lot of wasted os drive space as well. You can manually adjust page file size, but it's not something you should do unless you really know what you are doing.

The goal is to get just enough ram to support the software you are running and the tasks you are doing.

large amounts of ram can also be slower, because the high capacity DIMMs usually have higher latency and lower frequency.
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John Richard

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostSun Jan 15, 2017 10:52 pm

"i have confidence that the folks at Nucoda, Baselight, Flame, Luster, Pablo and Resolve all know a bit better than a gaming vendor on youtube tho, as they all spec varations on one or both of the same two machines... no i7's..."

First, would greatly appreciate any currently factual basis (testing/benchmarks) done by these folks. So far we don't know when nor how these recommendations were arrived at.

The Puget Systems engineer presentation relating to their findings/recommendations of hardware for Premiere Pro 2015.3 (not a game) that I provided links too was presented to the 2016 National Association of Broadcaster (NAB) ... if the time was taken to even watch the 1hr plus presentation (I don't think being broadcast on YouTube somehow denigrated the value of the facts - benchmarks) was most certainly all about VIDEO hardware/software and had nothing at all to do with any "gaming". Where the miss-characterization that this presentation was about "gaming" workstations came from is a total mystery and is just entirely false.

Just working with facts and as relevant a set of benchmarks as I can find. Would love to see some factual hardware benchmarks that support the advice that dual Xeon's performing on video software such as Resolve or Premiere (both of which rely on GPU heavily) at a level that justifies the cost of new dual Xeon's. So far no one claiming dual Xeon's is the better way to currently go has provided any factual benchmarks. As I stated, I searched high and low and found none either. What I did find I have presented for others to make decisions as I too have a hard time getting my head around how i7 6950 10 cores are equal to 24+ cores of dual Xeon. It could be that Resolve and Premiere are not coded to take advantage of all those cores. It could be the architecture isn't there to make use of all the added cores. Who knows.

Until factual benchmarks are presented specific to Resolve (or even a current Premiere version) that support the claim of current new dual Xeon's are worth the expense, then I for one will not blindly discount the facts I found and advice of quality companies that build video specific editing workstations for a living. This is the same logic of using facts I relied on to determine that dual Titan Pascal's were not enough of a performance bump to justify their far greater expense over dual GTX 1080's for the project types we work with. To paraphrase the film Jerry McQuire - show me the benchmarks.

(PS - not sure that digging up a used rebuilt HP Z class boxes/with used motherboards, then hunting down all the components to make it what you need, then putting it all together yourself including soldering some connector, configuring it all yourself, etc is an accurate comparison to a totally new turnkey system with all new components including the motherboard.)
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Blake LaFarm

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 12:31 am

John Richard wrote:So far we don't know when nor how these recommendations were arrived at.
The suggestion of a HP Z840 is not part of some sort of conspiracy theory. The suggestion has been offered by multiple posters only in an effort to alert you to the fact that the Z840 is a popular and robust computing platform that is certified by top-tier post-production software manufacturers. You are certainly welcome to disbelieve this fact if you want.

John Richard wrote:Until factual benchmarks are presented specific to Resolve (or even a current Premiere version) that support the claim of current new dual Xeon's are worth the expense ...
Dual Xeon processors were only recommended because they support 80 lanes versus 40 for a single CPU. You are certainly welcome to disbelieve this fact if you want.

John Richard wrote:... then putting it all together yourself including soldering some connector ...
Not quite sure where "soldering" is coming from. There is no, nor has there ever been, a requirement to solder a connector inside of a workstation or any other computer for that matter.

I don't think anyone here owns enough shares of HP stock that they are trying to cajole you into buying a HP Z840. In the spirit of sharing and contributing to the community, I think some folks are simply trying to offer hardware recommendations based on their own hard-earned experience. However, a turnkey system from a supplier you trust might just be a better option for you.
HP Z840 | Dual 10-Core Xeon 2.3GHz | Dual TITAN X Pascal | 64GB RAM | PCIe SSD 2GB/s
DeckLink 4K Ext 12G | Pocket UltraScope | Avid Artist Color | CalMAN Studio/C6-HDR
Resolve Studio 12.5.4.019 | Fusion Studio 8.2.1 | Avid MC Symph 8.7 | Win10 Pro 1607
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 12:45 am

John Richard wrote:"i have confidence that the folks at Nucoda, Baselight, Flame, Luster, Pablo and Resolve all know a bit better than a gaming vendor on youtube tho, as they all spec varations on one or both of the same two machines... no i7's..."


Here you go, done by a forum member who doesn't have any skin in the game like a vendor does.
Dual Xeon E5 2673 V3 (12 core 2.4 ghz) VS. i7 6700k (4 core 4 ghz) .
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John Richard

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 1:46 am

Differences to discussions noted:

- i7 6700 was used in this user test - not the i76950

- i76700 is only a 4 core - the i76950 is a 10 core (important because 8-10 cores is where the # of cores are all efficiently being used ... after this the cores are hardly being touched)

- the Xeon was loaded with 96gb of ram ... whilst the i6700 only had 32gb

- we have been discussing 2each GTX1080 GPU's not just one GPU in the test (important because Resolve is heavily reliant on the GPU power.

So while I appreciate the testing and it is somewhat relevant to the discussion, here is what can be drawn from this testing even:

- Resolve Grading (where we spend most of our time) functions exactly the same on the low end i7 6700 with only 32gb of ram and 4 cores as it does on the far more expensive dual Xeon's with 96gb of ram.
One still is left to wonder what a more comparable test would result in if both machines had equal ram and the more comparable 10 core i7 6950 had been used.

- Resolve Encoding - this is where the Xeon with 24 cores and 96 gb ram clearly won out on especially on 6k material long encoding. But once again, one is left wondering what the results would be of using the i7 6950 with 10 cores and equal ram that we have been talking about here.
What the testing also showed was that for short project encoding of material most of us work with, even with the low end and crippled i7 in this test, encoding time would be negligible.
An important point to note as Phillip eluded too, Resolve is not the place you want to be doing long encoding in if you have other choices like Adobe Media Encoder. I suspect the reason Media Encoder is so much faster than Resolve is that Adobe Media Encoder does use the power of the Cuda nVidia GPU for encoding. In fact there is a setting to use the GPU in Media Encoder. Possibly Resolve is not using the GPU?

In summary, this is not the test we need. It's the wrong i7 that is several generations back and with only 4 cores and not 10 cores of the current i7 (which of course unfairly effects encoding results), the dual Xeon machine was loaded with 96gb ram vs only 32gb on the i7, and we're talking dual GPU's which Resolve relies on heavily. Maybe Phillip's Garage or Blackmagic or someone will do a relevant test.

Final comment - where the big difference in this inequitable machine test was on long encodes of high rez (6k footage!!!). Even if you had the dual Xeon doing this encoding, you likely are going to start it overnight and not tie up the workstation for long hours while you are working. With either machine you come back in the morning and the job is done. The shorter projects and lower rez encodes are not really that much different in times even with the wrong low end i7. The hands on in front of the machine grading work was no different with either the Xeon or the low-end i7 used in the test.

Lets get the correct i7 with equal ram and dual GPU's to do the test we're discussing.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 3:02 am

John Richard wrote:An important point to note as the Phillip stated, Resolve is not the place you want to be doing encoding in if you have other choices like Adobe Media Encoder. I suspect the reason Media Encoder is so much faster than Resolve is that Adobe Media Encoder does use the power of the Cuda nVidia GPU for encoding. In fact there is a setting to use the GPU in Media Encoder. Possibly Resolve is not using the GPU?


I use ffmpeg, as in my opinion it's faster than anything else I've used. It's fast because it has no GUI that consumes resources, and it gives you a lot of control over the encoding process. As of version 3.2.2 you can use the CPU & GPU in unison to encode and decode, effectively splitting the workload.

With my personal 6850k & GTX 1070 I can take 1080p DNxHR SQ and trans-code it to visually lossless h.264 at 220-230 fps.

John Richard wrote:Lets get the correct i7 with equal ram and dual GPU's to do the test we're discussing.


That will be a hard test to get done. Not many people have that kind of hardware just laying around, and those that do, probably aren't going to spend the time to do benchmarks because they are putting it to work to make $$$.
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Erik Wittbusch

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 5:17 am

Resolve has proven to take advantage of high core numbers not only for encoding.

It does use it for decoding (6K Red RAW i.e.), caching (!) and final rendering.
All of these are often very time sensitive operations, more so if you have to handle feature length.

And again: Without dual Xeons you are limited to 40 PCIe lanes which isn't enough in some cases.

I'll buy a i6900 based system for my needs, but that doesn't mean it's also the right choice for other people's needs.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 11:30 am

John Richard wrote:Differences to discussions noted:

- i7 6700 was used in this user test - not the i76950

- i76700 is only a 4 core - the i76950 is a 10 core (important because 8-10 cores is where the # of cores are all efficiently being used ... after this the cores are hardly being touched)

- the Xeon was loaded with 96gb of ram ... whilst the i6700 only had 32gb

- we have been discussing 2each GTX1080 GPU's not just one GPU in the test (important because Resolve is heavily reliant on the GPU power.

So while I appreciate the testing and it is somewhat relevant to the discussion, here is what can be drawn from this testing even:

- Resolve Grading (where we spend most of our time) functions exactly the same on the low end i7 6700 with only 32gb of ram and 4 cores as it does on the far more expensive dual Xeon's with 96gb of ram.
One still is left to wonder what a more comparable test would result in if both machines had equal ram and the more comparable 10 core i7 6950 had been used.

- Resolve Encoding - this is where the Xeon with 24 cores and 96 gb ram clearly won out on especially on 6k material long encoding. But once again, one is left wondering what the results would be of using the i7 6950 with 10 cores and equal ram that we have been talking about here.
What the testing also showed was that for short project encoding of material most of us work with, even with the low end and crippled i7 in this test, encoding time would be negligible.
An important point to note as Phillip eluded too, Resolve is not the place you want to be doing long encoding in if you have other choices like Adobe Media Encoder. I suspect the reason Media Encoder is so much faster than Resolve is that Adobe Media Encoder does use the power of the Cuda nVidia GPU for encoding. In fact there is a setting to use the GPU in Media Encoder. Possibly Resolve is not using the GPU?

In summary, this is not the test we need. It's the wrong i7 that is several generations back and with only 4 cores and not 10 cores of the current i7 (which of course unfairly effects encoding results), the dual Xeon machine was loaded with 96gb ram vs only 32gb on the i7, and we're talking dual GPU's which Resolve relies on heavily. Maybe Phillip's Garage or Blackmagic or someone will do a relevant test.

Final comment - where the big difference in this inequitable machine test was on long encodes of high rez (6k footage!!!). Even if you had the dual Xeon doing this encoding, you likely are going to start it overnight and not tie up the workstation for long hours while you are working. With either machine you come back in the morning and the job is done. The shorter projects and lower rez encodes are not really that much different in times even with the wrong low end i7. The hands on in front of the machine grading work was no different with either the Xeon or the low-end i7 used in the test.

Lets get the correct i7 with equal ram and dual GPU's to do the test we're discussing.


Add to it fact that 6950x can be very easily overclocked to 4GHz (even 4.5GHz). It would be very interesting to test it against Xeons then. By pure guess I assume it would be as good as most Xeon setups. I think only some well chosen Xeons (3GHz+ ones with 8/10cores) could be actually better. I don't think Xeons with e.g. 16 cores at 2GHz would shine much at all in Resolve. This only works well for 3D rendering etc where all cores are always used at 100%.

The only real issue for i7 is number of PCIe lanes, which we do need for Resolve multi GPU setups.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 2:55 pm

The only real issue for i7 is number of PCIe lanes, which we do need for Resolve multi GPU setups.

and mutli i/o cards.... i have both an AJA for Nucoda and BMD for Resolve in the same machine,

I don't think Xeons with e.g. 16 cores at 2GHz would shine much at all in Resolve. This only works well for 3D rendering etc where all cores are always used at 100%.

in my existing z820 i do see all 32 cores running at 100% under Nucoda, and iin Resolve on some processes, like cacheing i see 80% across all cores.. i know some processes in Resolve are not mutli threaded, OFX come to mind...

but end of day i run a 4k feature film with EXR grades from source caches's in either software, cacheing on NR and OFX... and run and render reliably with my existing z820... that's the marks i need to meet for anywhere near the medium term, anything more is waste

No i7 machine will match it due to the number of cards i have in the chassis, not everyone's doing long form + keeping mutiple software on the same machine + comfortable changeing, upgradeing and generaly messing about under the hood + see's an ROI for a 6k machine in a 50k suite once all is done and dusted

my build may not be optimal for others, but based on the z820 i use today i expect a z840 to;
1) meet Resolve and Nucoda's current spec's
2) flexibality to add cards as needed in the future
3) grade 4k feature flims with cleints in the room without farting
4) perform well under load (100% core useage for 26 hours straight rendering a 4k DCDM for example)

an i7 build probbaly would make #3, but will not meet #1 & 2, and how well it does at #4 is to some extent about how well the details have been thought through when it's built

i have a buisness reason to invest in another machine soonish, so for me, the z840's a no brainer, it's dead cheap, dead reliable and can do all i ask of it with no extra compromises.

if the limatations of the i7 are not of concern, and building up a refurb'd z840 is too daunting, go for the i7... a good choice and leaves mroe z840's on the market for me to chose from

but please don't take offense at Baselight, Nucoda, Resolve, Quantel, Flame on and on when they spec dual xeon's.. and don't spec's a gamer i7... there's a good reason for this, i have more faith in the engineer's recomendations at any one of thsoe company's than i do in the dude nattering away on yourtube.. and no i started watching it and gave up.... everyone's got an opnion.. in my eyes he's got some poor advice to sell you... but that's just my opnion ;-)
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 3:05 pm

Other approach- if you can afford e.g. HP z840 then you can't really go wrong with it for UHD, RED, etc work. "Problems" start when you really don't have that budget. You need to be more inventive then. Some people don't have luxury to be abel to spent 10K. There is real mixture people here, but for whatever reason big assumption is that all of them work with high-end project and most common suggestion is- you need dual xeon, you need Dolby monitor, you need all this xyz high end solutions, which is of course not very true at all.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 3:16 pm

i totaly agree with you Andrew, many uses for Resolve, some folks are mainly cutting, using it as a FC7/MC replacement, and don't have cleints in the suite, or are the cleint themsleves

many of the Resolve projects come to me as DRP's, and my clients are using the free software on an iMac or i5/7 machine, they can only see a ROI cap of maybe 2-3k, that level of tech makes much sense there

i have diffrent needs, and they find the budget to pay me for the services i offer even with the same software under the hood, adn in turn my ROI makes it possiable to expand my horizion's

not to waste resources tho.... and for me a refurb'd z840 is cheaper thant new i7, but even if it was not, i'd have to go with the z840 or a SuperMicro to meet my demands, the i7 is clearly off the table
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John Richard

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 4:43 pm

The one question that got side tracked and never got much experience based opinion was the original question:

Is there an appreciable performance gain with the Dual Titan Pascal over the Dual GTX 1080 8gb?
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Jean Claude

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 5:00 pm

http://www.babeltechreviews.com/pascal- ... -revealed/
http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nv ... 8352vs3603

For Davinci Resolve, if we make a parallel: I had a GTX 980TI 6GB then I installed a GTX 1070 8GB (6=>8): performance is even better. More VRAM, better performance for encoding..

Hope this help.
Windows 10 PRO X64 | DaVinci Resolve Studio 14.0.1 | Fusion Studio 9.0.1
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Steve Strickler

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostMon Feb 13, 2017 12:40 pm

There is a MixingLight segment on this. Yes, the 12gb Pascal will outperform the 1080.
When you get into multiples and/or mixing cards, then the game changes. However, Resolve always defaults to the lowest-common denominator on compute GPU's.

An interesting note: I recently installed two Titan Pascals and didn't get the performance that I expected.
Threw in a 980ti I had available as a GUI (not used for compute) and the performance increased a LOT..even with renders. This has caused me to consider putting a 1080 in for GUI and see if the performance increases even more.

I'll update as I discover results.
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Jason Bowdach

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostTue Nov 14, 2017 7:09 pm

Steve Strickler wrote:There is a MixingLight segment on this. Yes, the 12gb Pascal will outperform the 1080.
When you get into multiples and/or mixing cards, then the game changes. However, Resolve always defaults to the lowest-common denominator on compute GPU's.

An interesting note: I recently installed two Titan Pascals and didn't get the performance that I expected.
Threw in a 980ti I had available as a GUI (not used for compute) and the performance increased a LOT..even with renders. This has caused me to consider putting a 1080 in for GUI and see if the performance increases even more.

I'll update as I discover results.

Id be very curious about this, as Im in a similar situation.
Origin PC Workstation
Windows 10
Intel Xeon 3.1Ghz x 10
64GB RAM
Nvidia Titan X & 1080
30TB RAID 5 (5x8GB HGST)
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alexoreman

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Re: Dual Titan 12gb pascal Vs. Dual GTX 1080 8gb

PostTue Nov 14, 2017 9:00 pm

The Titan XP definitely trounces a standard 1080 or 1080ti but if you get a heavily factory overlocked version of the 1080ti the performance is fairly close in my testing but the XP still wins and has more GPU ram for heavy 4K projects and higher resolutions.

Having a dedicated GUI card is almost required to see high end performance increases, even a K4200 is sufficient.

You want your processing GPUs just for processing not doing double duty on GUI draws etc as it rubber-bands the render engine and you never see your max performance numbers.

I had hoped Nvidia would release the Xp to 3rd party vendors so we would see an overclocked version, probably not going to happen at this point so eventually the Ti will surpass the XP with enough overclocking.

We had amazing success with the older Titan X maxwells as they were released to 3rd party companies and they made a few overclocked versions.
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