Blackmagic Forum

I am really at a loss guys getting quite upset with my camera Ursa Mini 4K for once I have beautiful noiseless footage inside of Resolve (shooting outside during daytime sheesh) and upon export I am getting noise. I am exporting to Prores 4444XQ from RAW 3:1, I would Love to finally not have to use denoiser for ONCE, as my footage seems to not need it until export. Am I missing something? The Noise is visible while the video is playing through during render. It switches to an obvious quality loss. Upon finishing render, or stopping the render, it flicks back to the beautiful image I wish it would export as. Please please help me

On the Deliver page, in the Video - Advanced Settings area, enable the "Force debayer to highest quality" checkbox and see if that helps.

I do this already

Can u post a link to a sample dng scene and sample render of that scene.

In Deliver page, is ENABLE FLAT PASS set to OFF ! Sometimes, I forget to remove the setting ALWAYS ON. Perhaps, it helps !

And if you can provide what Peter requested, also provide a project export drp of the project that created the rendered sample.

Also, are you using the internal monitor to judge?

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Hmmmm...

If you're not seeing noise on the display you shouldn't be seeing it on the export. Especially on a higher quality render such as a ProRes 444 XQ.

I agree with the suggestions above. Make sure flat pass is set to off, make sure your debayer is set to highest quality.

Sure thing. I have attached a 3 second render clip with the noise, a still (.tif) of the clean look inside Resolve, and a .DNG directly from the source. I imported the single .DNG into Resolve and it looked like it might have the noise on it, I'm not sure though. I am also quite confused that the .DNG would look worse than the .TIF still that I grabbed from the entire clip. Very strange. Also, I attached a .drp, not sure if I did it correctly though. Let me know if everything you need is there.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

To respond to the flat pass and force debayer, these are all in proper order. Thank you though!

Also, I have an external monitor that it is noticeable on as well.

Don't really see any problem with these files. They all look the same. They all have typical sensor noise, which you can remove if you want. Don't expect perfectly clean file. You need a lot of light for this.

you dont see a difference in the .TIF? There seems to be literally no noise in it until export where it is quite noticeable. It is quite different to me.

Here is a screen shot of them side by side. You can't see the noise difference?

That's most likely just your preview (different gamma etc applied) in Resolve view and later in other app.
How did you make tif and MOV? Export from Resolve (from graded DNG)?
Tiff and MOV match each other well. DNG is RAW, so I don't know how you processed/graded it, but I can see that I could match your TIFF starting form this DNG (this is what you have done, no?).

There is no real difference between MOV and TIFF. There is different with the noise nature- on TIFF it's very sharp and "small", where in MOV it's more soft (looks to much just for compression). Have you used correct debayer etc settings in both cases?

Also- when you want to compare something properly use the same frame.

No the TIFF is ungraded. It's not the player. I can screenshot inside of Resolve for you before I press render, and while its rendering. One moment. I will attach here. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1ykoL ... sp=sharing

James Harkness wrote:No the TIFF is ungraded. It's not the player. I can screenshot inside of Resolve for you before I press render, and while its rendering. One moment. I will attach here. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1ykoL ... sp=sharing

TIFF ungraded and MOV is also ungraded?

Export same version to TIFF and MOV and if you use high quality format they will match quite well. The lower quality format the flatter/softer noise will look due to compression. If you then go to impressed formats it will look even different. Not much what can be done about it, except de-nosing. This is normal and happens even on Hollywood productions. Not a single camera is noiseless or perfect.

Yes everything is ungraded. I'm not sure what you mean export same version to TIFF and MOV and if I use high quality format. I grabbed the TIFF as a still from the color page, and the .mov is just exported from the same clip at Prores 4444XQ.

I believe you're missing the point. There is VIRTUALLY NO NOISE inside of Resolve. It is shot at 3:1 RAW. I export to Prores 4444XQ and it is creating noise that was not there. I am aware that noise does happen quite often especially with my camera, but in this instant I am very confused as to why after exporting there is noise being created.

ProRes is soft- looks to soft for XQ version.
Are you sure that settings were correct: debayer, scaling etc?
Export to 10bit RGB MOV and compare this.

Yes the settings are correct as I have already mentioned. Even on the uncompressed 10bit RGB is it creating that noise. I press play while it is in Resolve, and it is soooo nice no noise at all. Soon as I go to render there is noise created.

James Harkness wrote:Yes everything is ungraded. I'm not sure what you mean export same version to TIFF and MOV and if I use high quality format. I grabbed the TIFF as a still from the color page, and the .mov is just exported from the same clip at Prores 4444XQ.

I believe you're missing the point. There is VIRTUALLY NO NOISE inside of Resolve. It is shot at 3:1 RAW. I export to Prores 4444XQ and it is creating noise that was not there. I am aware that noise does happen quite often especially with my camera, but in this instant I am very confused as to why after exporting there is noise being created.

I have you original DNG and there is "plenty" of noise there.

Noise on your ProRes has different nature, it's softer and looks bigger. I'm surprised that XQ shows such a big difference, so make sure your settings are correct. Export TIFF and MOV at the same time and compare again. Also export 10bit RGB MOV (this is uncompressed) so should match your TIFF.

James Harkness wrote:Yes the settings are correct as I have already mentioned. Even on the uncompressed 10bit RGB is it creating that noise. I press play while it is in Resolve, and it is soooo nice no noise at all. Soon as I go to render there is noise created.

So any export creates noise, regardless of format. Sounds like something is not right. When you export TIFF or uncompressed this should look identical to your preview (assuming you preview back in Resolve).

Right, and this is why I am at a loss. I don't understand what's going on. It seems everything you guys have mentioned I checked properly. This screenshot tops the cake for me as to see the difference. It is inside of Resolve, before I press render, and then while it is rendering. I have force debayer checked, force sizing checked, enable flat pass is OFF. If there is any more suggestions to check I would love to hear
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1ykoL ... dHUGc/view

You use custom resolution export (4000x2160).
Try 3840x2160 (you can do centre crop to avoid frame scaling).

I took your DNG, exported as ProRes XQ at 3840x2160 (centre crop) and noise is correct- small and sharp as on source. Brought it back to Resolve and you can't tell the difference against DNG source.

James Harkness wrote:Right, and this is why I am at a loss. I don't understand what's going on. It seems everything you guys have mentioned I checked properly. This screenshot tops the cake for me as to see the difference. It is inside of Resolve, before I press render, and then while it is rendering. I have force debayer checked, force sizing checked, enable flat pass is OFF. If there is any more suggestions to check I would love to hear
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1ykoL ... dHUGc/view

Set DNG debayer in setting to Full and untick "Force Debayer..."
I haven't used it.
Also try changing project resolution to 3840x2160 (set scaling to centre crop).

You really messed up here.

Your MOV is fine, your TIFF which you claim is noise-less is actually debayered in half resolution and has noise "much bigger and flatter", so when you scale image to HD or less it's less visible than original sharp noise in your DNG (and MOV). Your claim about file being noise-less seams to be based on small resolution preview (e.g. Resolve preview window), not a proper 1:1 pixel preview. Half res debayering also changes noise nature.

Your TIFF was made using half resolution debayer!

When I said earlier about MOV and TIFF noise nature it was actually opposite.

Well I believe you a wrong, unless there is another section that I don't know about that regards to decoding the RAW footage. Here is my screenshot of what quality it debayers my footage.

I even went to this section and used a SHARPER filter for debayering quality and STILL don't have that noise inside of Davinci, UNTIL export once again.

I'm not wrong saying that your TIFF was made with half debayer for 100%. I can replicate this look starting with original DNG. Same as I can replicate MOV look by using full res debayer. This is what makes TIFF and MOV look different. TIFF was done with different settings than MOV for sure.

Your assumption (and all people who tried to help you) about what gives in your opinion "noise-less" look are opposite to common sense (because it's all based on your personal opinion what is less noise).

Your setting from above will give you correct output (as per MOV, not TIFF) which is in your opinion with noise.

Just change your debayer to half (don't use force debayer to highest quality on export) and you will have your noise-less export.
Proper approach is to use full res debayer with small noise reduction. Your original DNG is not that noise-less at all. You should also stop judging look based on tiny Resolve GUI preview window- you need 1:1 view when it comes to judging noise look.

Also, if you really need to use the UI, in the setting switch the monitoring from [basic] to [bilinear], you will start to see much more things...

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Thanks for all the tips I will check it out. I was just upset that I have to use noise reduction on practically every single clip I shoot. Guess I will just have to get used to that. I just throw some spatial noise reduction on and it seems to go away and still render at a decent speed.

It's quite normal.
Use better camera or more light

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:It's quite normal.
Use better camera or more light

Exactly.

Or rate the camera lower, like 200 and light accordingly

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better camera!? I really like this one I am just learning it, I guess.

Can't expect me to light more outside during daytime! But maybe more exposure. I am realizing the sky is sort of out of limits with this camera for a great over-all picture I think. I do have another light on the way. It is $700 USD off right now going for $450 USD on B&H check it out!!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... color.html

HI. Having encountered this myself, It seemed when I watch the playback, default is Quicktime player on a Mac. The noise came back.II then tried VLC and VLC looked way better and very little noise. and an acceptable image.

I am therefore thinking that the final image should be ok

I'm not sure if anyone really knows what the issue is here.

I'm using a poo camera in comparison to OP so the effect is more obvious. I'm having the same problem with export having more noise than playback.

Low light is purposeful.

How did you capture that Export image?

Are you bringing the exported clip back into Resolve and comparing it to what's in the Resolve project?

What are the Deliver page settings for that exported file? Is it the same resolution as the Resolve timeline?

tentonnetongue wrote:I'm not sure if anyone really knows what the issue is here. I'm using a poo camera in comparison to OP so the effect is more obvious. I'm having the same problem with export having more noise than playback. Low light is purposeful.

What happens if you turn all cache files off and turn all Performance Modes off? I'm guessing it's getting cached to a lower-res format, and that's hiding the noise that's always there.

If it were me, I'd just render it out, throw some NR on it, and live with it. I'd have to know more about the exposure and real before/after Waveform Parade images to judge if it's underexposed or not, but that's my gut feeling: you're seeing noise that's really there. Pushing the exposure harder in final color just makes it worse.