FCPX with Quicktime VS Resolve and VLC

Hello everyone,
I have an issue regarding export from FCPX and DaVinci Resolve and how these files behave with players.
First of all my system is:
Cpu: i5 4460 3.2Ghz
Ram: 16GB 2400mhz
Gpu: Gtx 770 2GB
MacOS: Sierra 10.12.4
DaVinci Resolve 12.5.5 (free version)
Fcpx 10.3.3
Monitor: Dell U2413 calibrated with X-rite i1Display Pro and i1Profiler at SRGB and 120cd/m Luminance.

So first of all I was having issues when I was exporting a clip from Resolve regarding to brightness.That translates that every clip after export was much brighter than what I was seeing on Resolve.After a research I found that I had to declick the choice "Use Mac display colour profile for viewers" from colour management tab.After that I could see same exposure but slight different colours when I was watching my exported clip to quicktime player.So I tried VLC for a change and I figured out that was exact the same as what I was seeing at Resolve.Phew that made me feel much better.
So the next step was to think why I have this difference between quicktime player and VLC.The next step was to take that exported clip and put it into fcpx timeline and compare it with quicktime player.OMG this time fcpx and quicktime was an absolute match! just like with Resolve and VLC.
So final I have 2 questions to help me understand a few things.
First is there any gamma difference between fcpx/quicktime and resolve/vlc to explain the difference between these 2?
Second which one of these 2 is the right one to trust for my colour grading?

P.S. Sorry for my bad English.

You have not mentioned the codec you are using.

So called Gamma shift generally occur with h.264 encodings, and there is a lot more to know about that than you might expect (if you want to learn check https://vitrolite.wordpress.com/2010/12 ... gamma_bug/ or https://myth.li/2010/07/how-to-fix-the- ... quicktime/ or many others : http://www.google.fr/search?hl=fr&q=h.264+gamma+shift), they are long know about issues that really depend on the hardware and software you are using to encode and decode. If you ask me, blame quicktime, but that's not helping anyone is it.

For other codecs, shifts generally occur when there is a mistake done in the levels, data or video. But once again, depending on your system decoding and rendering can be different. Win7 and quicktime is a terrible combination, MacOsX and anything not vanilla Apple also often end up in tears (just try DNxHD with MXF4Mac in FCP)

Hello Forest Finbow,
I have tried Prores HQ, LT, 4444, h264 etc.The issue is not hiding behind a codec this time I think.
The same file which has been exported from Resolve, has different colours when I will open it with Quicktime player and the same colours when I will open it this time with VLC. Also the same file if I drop it in the FCPX timeline, it will have the same colours just when I open it with Quicktime.
So mainly when Im using FPCX + quicktime everything is ok. The problem is that I get different colours while Im exporting from Resolve which only the VLC player can show correct this time.
Thank you for the posts which explain the "quicktime gamma shift bug" but Im not sure if it is that in my situation because as I said earlier the fcpx timeline and quicktime player match perfectly.
Its pretty confusing...

Here is the same clip which exported from Resolve and how it looks compared to the others.
As you can see VLC/Resolve versions are more saturated and with milky blacks compared to FCPX/Quicktime version.

Hum, I'm surprised you got the same problem with ProRes 4444, this one should behave differently.

Nevertheless, you're not the first one having those issues, the pictures you've shown clearly indicate that QT is crushing stuff, so as I mentioned before, I would blame QT. The reason QT does this is that it reads from the file header that it is in the R709 color space, then checks your system color profile (probably sRGB) and performs a Correction to display what QT thinks is proper. The behavior is actually understandable, but since resolve is not doing that same operation in the GUI you've got dissimilar renderings. The files however remain the same, so FCPX, QT, VLC, DAV GUI etc... are just displaying them differently.

Enter the nightmare we all have with internet deliverables, there is just no way you can know how it will render on other computers/phones/tablets/smart tvs/etc. You can try for yourself messing with your displays color profiles, if i'm not mistaken quicktime will adjust it's rendering to try an stick to the same colors, but VLC will not. Even changing browser on the same computer or playing the same file in QT7 and QTx will yield different results.
This is one of the reasons why most of us will discourage you grading using you mac display, trust me, it will bite you in a*s. Should you be foolish enough to do so, then you should at least ensure it is properly set to a 709 profile (probably gamma 2.4), that should elevate a little the consistency of the display rendering on your own system.

Thank you again for your help Forest.I really appreciate it.
So if Quicktime is crushing the blacks, does that mean also FCPX is doing the same? Is Quicktime "embedded" into FCPX?
Im not using a Mac but a Hackintosh setup with a Dell U2413 10bit monitor.I have done calibration with X-rite i1Display Pro using 120cd/m luminance with Gamma 2.2, SRGB Colour Space with D65 white point.
When I edit weddings/events Im using mostly Fcpx only and quicktime to preview my final results.From what I can tell I don't have any major difference in color terms when I will see the result from my Huawei phone or my generic LG monitor from my other pc which is running windows.That's the reason Im afraid that Resolve might be the wrong one with slightly shifted blacks and more saturated colours.I will upload soon an image in daylight with more colours for reference to show the issue a little better.This time I will not do any color to the image and I will use the file straight out of the camera to put it into Fcpx, Resolve, Quicktime and VLC.
Also as I mentioned before, Im turning off "Use Mac display colour profile for viewers" from colour management tab in Resolve... so no problem at all with Mac Display issues.
I have done some reading about color management but I think its not enough as it seems.Its so frustrating...

Well, as I mentioned, grading in the GUI is actually not a recommended method so I'm not sure I can offer true help, but rather ideas to help you find out what's best for you.

I too have read many times that one should turn off "Use Mac display colour profile for viewers", but I'm actually not sure it's a good advice.
Both QuickTime and FCPX are actually performing that very task: using the mac display colour profile to display decoded pixels and with your setting, Resolve and VLC are not. BTW, FCPX is not crushing blacks, it's just your graphics card, in QT/FCPX displaying the pixels differently but the file remains untouched. My thoughts are that maybe you should turn ON that option in Resolve. You would still have discrepancies with VLC, but at least all the other forms of display would be consistent.

Another probably better solution would be to recalibrate your monitor targeting a Rec709 gamma 2.4 colorspace rather than the sRGB 2.2 I suspect you wouldn't have any shifts anymore between QT/FCPX, Resolve and VLC. Alternatively, you could also try to edit the timeline colorspace (in resolves colour management) and set it to sRGB 2.2 rather than the default R709 2.4. I don't know if that will make a difference in the headers of your QuickTime files but it's worth trying. Bottom line is try and have the same colorspace acros all devices/players.

How about you give at least one of those solutions a try and see if you achieve better consistency across your differents players and platforms (including other sRGB calibrated computers, your phone etc.)

Yes you are correct Forest.
I left on "Use Mac display colour profile for viewers" and changed the timeline to SRGB and Gamma 2.2
Also combining with Prores 4444 export, the clips now are pretty close in color and brightness.
I can tell that from Resolve the shadows are slightly more crushed than what Quicktime shows.
Unfortunately I can't use REC.709 2.4 because I have calibrated my monitor to use it also as a photographer with SRGB profile to share my photos on web.
So if I buy a 2nd gpu to work only as GUI and use GTX 770 as a dedicated just for rendering, shall I see any difference?

Here are the results:

I can tell that from Resolve the shadows are slightly more crushed than what Quicktime shows.

Hum just a though, how about you try to set the time line to a gamma 2.4 (but keep the gamut to sRGB, you'll probably need to check the use separate color space and gamma attribute).

If you're going to buy anything, I would strongly suggest a hardware (HD-SDI) output. Then try and get your hands on a professional monitor. There is a reason everybody advocates for accurate color managed monitoring and resolve really tends to push for hardware solutions.
If your budget is a bit short, Blackmagic sells the decklink mini monitor cards for a fairly cheap entry price. For the monitor I've heard about people getting fairly good results using standard monitors with 3D LUT corrections. I believe your gear (Dell U2413) is one of those standard monitors that will feature internal 3D LUT calibration.
You'll have a much more reliable picture through the Decklink HDMI out than through the mac Colour Profiles, plus it will feature true 10 bits, whereas I believe on a Mac the Nvidia driver clamps you're desktop (and the resolve GUI) to 8 bits. Do note however that if you choose to feed the picture to your Dell monitor you will need: A to calibrate it internally (mac profile wont be used) and B, you will need another monitor for the GUI !

If the only thing you're ever going to do is web based broadcast (ie Youtube), you might be able to get away with your current setup (using the "Use Mac display colour profile for viewers"), I assume they threw it in for that reason. But if you want to expand a bit professionally, you'll eventually hit a point where professional monitoring is unavoidable. As I mentioned before, it will bite you in the a*s! One day you'll receive a very angry call from the DoP or the producer because it looks too dark or too bright or too colorfull or whatever on TV. Believe me, bitching about Quicktime or Resolve won't help you there...

Thank you again.
I did try the gamma setting at 2.4 but the difference now is bigger in terms of brightness/black levels.
Im thinking to buy the PciEx Intensity Pro 4K which can work as playback and capture card with HDMI output only.About the monitor, Dell gives me the possibility to store into the monitor 2x 14bit LUTs.Unfortunately this is something that works only with Windows OS and not Mac.
I1Profiler which is the software from Dell/X-rite supports only SRGB and Native at Mac OS.At Windows from the other hand I can hardware calibrate the monitor and have also extra options like Rec.709, Adobe RGB etc.
On my system right now I have also a generic LG monitor which I use it for dual screen video editing and scopes also.Is it a good idea to use it as my main or buy a better one, connected with my gpu and connect my Dell to Intensity so I can bypass GPU and have better results in terms of better colour accuracy?
Im trying for a long time with little steps to deep into better pro environment for my Editing and Colour work but the budget is very tight.Last I would like to ask you Forest if it is a good idea to use with Intensity card a 32-40 Inch TV for Reference to have an idea how it will look on most TVs and also for showing the work to my clients.I hope I didn't bother you a lot with all these issues Im experiencing due to the lack of proper equipment and knowledge Forest.

While a standard TV is most certainly not qualified as the most accurate grading display, you can try and get it as close as possible. There are numerous tutorials out there such as this one (first one on google) http://www.techhive.com/article/2079503 ... -hdtv.html
If done right, that can be a decent client display indeed, go for it!

Hello,Forest and Marios-
I would like to join, a few years later, and say I am having similar issues, but with a twist. I went ahead and bought the UltraSTudio Monitor 3G, which allows for non-profiled output in Resolve and FCPX. As with Marios, when I look at the results in VLC, they look very close to what Resolve (and FCPX to a certain extent) showed me through the calibrated (DIsplayCal3) AV out (MOnitor 3G). When I watch the footage in Quicktime or FCPX (not thorugh AV OUT, but as a second display, even though calibrated using i1 Display Pro), things look less saturated.
My question is for Forest: you mentioned somewhere in the thread that Marios should monitor via hardware output (like the Monitor 3G) and thus get a more reliable monitoring setup. So does FCPX need profiling/calibrating as Resolve does (DisplaCal3)?
I ask because although Resolve is the best for color correcting, my system can't handle anything complex, while FCPX is very fast, so I need to continue color correcting in FCPX for a while.