Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

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Dave Dugdale

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Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Aug 24, 2017 3:38 pm

Ok this might be a silly question but besides dynamics and EQ, where are all the other audio effects like reverb, phase shift, multi-band EQ, etc.?

I only see my effects that I installed like Izotope.

Am I missing something? Are they coming in a later version of the beta, I just installed beta 8.

Thanks!
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Aug 24, 2017 9:37 pm

There is a six band eq and dynamics per track and four per clip. For now use the third party plugins for other effects.
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Steve Alexander

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostFri Aug 25, 2017 10:21 am

HI Peter - are you folks planning to ship a few additional audio plugins with Resolve 14 when it is finally released?
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Dave Dugdale

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostFri Aug 25, 2017 2:44 pm

I would also like to know if the Fairlight page will have a similar collection of audio effects like Audition has when it is released.
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Suhaib Siddiqi

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostFri Aug 25, 2017 4:38 pm

Dave Dugdale wrote:I would also like to know if the Fairlight page will have a similar collection of audio effects like Audition has when it is released.


Just a note: I have several VST plugins for Vegas Pro. These VST plugins just fine in Fairlight.
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Jason Tackaberry

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostFri Aug 25, 2017 6:32 pm

You can also get a number of free VSTs that are bundled with Reaper. They aren't pretty to look at, but they're still quite capable and solid sonically:

https://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostSat Aug 26, 2017 3:59 am

We will consider audio plugins later but there are plenty of VST and AUsuppliers in the meantime.

What i am interested in is a priority list of what effects we can consider.
What audio effects do you use every day?
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Dave Dugdale

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostSat Aug 26, 2017 6:42 pm

Hi Peter,

For right now I would like to see these two:
- Multi-band Compression like Audition has,
- Reverb
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Daz Wood

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostSun Aug 27, 2017 12:22 pm

I think its important that any effects are aimed at video production and not music as there are lots of music based effects around. Noise reduction, real space reverbs and RX like tools would make fairlight very usable.
Thank you

Daz
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostSun Aug 27, 2017 6:36 pm

While it would be too much to ask that BMD acquire Izotope and include the RX series with Resolve, some introductory level Noise Reduction and Reverb tools would be great.

Maybe also incorporate the ability to save and apply presets to the Dynamics processor in Fairlight, that could effectively give us a fast way to normalize dialogue.
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Dave Dugdale

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostMon Aug 28, 2017 3:25 pm

I was able to fix it by removing the clip from the timeline and then re-adding it back in, it worked fine after that.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostWed Sep 27, 2017 5:34 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:What i am interested in is a priority list of what effects we can consider.


Here's what Premiere Pro comes with by default.

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/us ... tions.html

You guys need to step things up, Peter. At least for the Studio version. Fairlight is woefully incomplete, to the point where the current release should probably still be called a Beta.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostWed Sep 27, 2017 6:41 pm

This is all just my very humble opinion.

There are functional things that are lacking in all of the pages in Resolve (that said there is truly IMPRESSIVE work that has and continues to be done on all facets of the program). Fairlight and Edit are the biggest needs, so to devote resources to creating audio plugins or even video effects/transitions just seems like a misappropriation of resources. Esp. when there are probably literally thousands of feature and bug fix requests.

I look at the Resolve FX, and for a fair number of them, like Dent, I wonder who requested that? It's cool and fun, but there are so many good free or cheap effects and plugins that I don't see why BMD should be making them as well.

The Studio version is cheap enough that anyone can buy a lot of effects with the savings. But there is no way we can buy features, design improvements and bug fixes for Resolve from 3rd party providers.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostWed Sep 27, 2017 7:39 pm

ToneBoosters VST plugins are inexpensive and good.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 2:07 am

PeterMoretti wrote:The Studio version is cheap enough that anyone can buy a lot of effects with the savings.


No. Just...no. Clip and track level audio effects need to be built-in.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 2:23 am

Jim, honestly can you explain this?

An Adobe CC annual plan prepaid is $599 per year. So the first year you have saved $300 using Resolve. And the next year probably $600. That's a lot of plugins.

And why should BMD be devoting valuable development resources creating what is already available, and of probably somewhat higher quality, by 3rd parties?
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 4:55 am

PeterMoretti wrote:And why should BMD be devoting valuable development resources creating what is already available, and of probably somewhat higher quality, by 3rd parties?

I can't say since I don't work for BMD, but I would bet they have one department that just does plug-ins, so I expect they're technically not losing any resources by developing plug-ins.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 6:26 am

Jim Simon wrote:No. Just...no. Clip and track level audio effects need to be built-in.
If the audio effects being called for are functions such as reverse, phase reverse, offset (relative delay) adjustment, DC removal, Digital DeEmphasis, et cetera, then I agree, as utilities usually aren’t covered by standalone plugins (and these are often rather useful)

If, on the other hand, it’s audio effects listed under your Premiere Pro plugins list then my personal view is that BlackMagic's resources are better spent elsewhere even with the resources available.

Take something like DeClick, DeCrackle, Noise Reduction, and similar audio restoration processes. The big two are Cedar and Sonic Studio, both a product of research (Sonic ultimately developing out of the Lucas Film Sounddroid Project and Cedar from the British National Archives) have been developing audio restoration tools since the early 1980s.

Sure, cheaper alternatives are available, such as iZotope RX, which are on a lower rung of the pecking order in terms of both transparency and quality. And iZotope specialises in this type of software, much of their R&D goes in to these type of products. The big 2 remain the leaders for good reason. Options such as Sonnox Restoration Tools or Magix Restoration Suite simply can’t compete with the big 3 and few use them even when built in preferring the more dedicated and specialist tools.

Take something as “simple” as Reverb. The leaders in this field are Exponential Audio (ex lead Lexicon engineer Michael Cairns), Bricasti, Eventide, TC Electronic, Lexicon, AudioEase, and a few others. Commonality? They all spécialisé in Reverb and these type of related effects, either in software or hardware. Michael Cairns isn’t creating noise reduction tools, or an audio editor, he is focused on delivering the best Reverb solution he is able to. Bricasti focuses on their M7 product and their converters were born out of their M7 Reverb Project, with customers demanding standalone converters. They don’t do plugins so they commissioned Exponential Audio to develop the M7 Control plugin. They know their strengths.

Would I like BlackMagic to now throw their hat in and deliver a series of so-so products to appease a few forum members only to spend the next decade attempting to improve these tools potentially a country mile behind (that more than likely most users won’t use as they are better served by specialist options)? How long before these same users complain the built in plugins aren’t as good as product X, Y and Z?

I would rather those resources being spent on specialised tools within Resolve solving problems we currently are unable to solve with 3rd party solutions, making us more productive. The kind of thing competing companies and users of those systems sit up and take notice of because they improve workflows and move the yard stick further than anyone else. That’s something I can get behind.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 6:58 am

Jim Simon wrote:
Peter Chamberlain wrote:What i am interested in is a priority list of what effects we can consider.


Here's what Premiere Pro comes with by default.

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/us ... tions.html

You guys need to step things up, Peter. At least for the Studio version. Fairlight is woefully incomplete, to the point where the current release should probably still be called a Beta.


Given your posts Jim it seems you feel that all the features in all other apps and any bugs need to be fixed in Resolve right now. All I can offer is what we have today. We continue to expand our engineering efforts to expand the feature set and feedback on the priority of those additional features is welcome. It's a little difficult to schedule development work based on 'everything you don't have you need now' feedback. If Resolve is not suitable for your work today we hope it will become more so as we add more features. In the meantime supporting third part plugins is one inexpensive way we allow users to complete work and we hope you can use them too.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 7:30 am

Well said reynauld.

@BM i hope you realy start ignoring these , premiere has bladie bla and product y has bladiebla. Specialy these lists of crappy plugins we dont need, with such good 3rd party vst support in DR14 and amazing plugins on the market. So base production tools yes, the rest dont bother.
Like many have said before , please keep focusing on proper production and 'stability' improving and possible mind blowing features as you seem to have done very well so far.
Remark here earlier regarding R14 ofx is uterrly insane as you have added some tremendous powerfull and hard to match productive improving features there , mainly in studio but even in free that people looking purely at starry sparkly crossfades you threw in for the fun, likely miss.
I watched Joey Dana's (mixinglight) series (tip!) on whats new in resolve 14 and was uttely amazed at some of these ofx and their usefullnes for serious productive work. (That actualy was what triggered me to invent full ofx mapping for my controller as before never saw these as too usefull, but this is gamechanging)
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 5:10 pm

Reynauld, a bit of an aside, may ask if you have an opinion on FabFilter's plugins?

https://www.fabfilter.com/products/
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 5:21 pm

Simon Brown wrote:ToneBoosters VST plugins are inexpensive and good.


Much appreciated Simon. Wow, that is crazy cheap. Twenty Euros??

https://www.toneboosters.com/tb_trackessentials_v3.html
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 5:28 pm

PeterMoretti wrote:
Simon Brown wrote:ToneBoosters VST plugins are inexpensive and good.


Much appreciated Simon. Wow, that is crazy cheap. Twenty Euros??

https://www.toneboosters.com/tb_trackessentials_v3.html


I think part of why they're currently very cheap is that the v4 plugins are coming out, but the v3 ones are still good, I think. And they work in demo mode first so you can evaluate them.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 5:42 pm

PeterMoretti wrote:Reynauld, a bit of an aside,
It's a good thing I have seen all the different spellings of my name to not be alarmed.
I see Glenn started a trend above.

may ask if you have an opinion on FabFilter's plugins?
I am possibly the most boring plugin user, basically still using the same tiny selection of plugins. Although recently I have purchased a few more to add to the toolbox (such as the Sonnox Oxford Dynamic EQ which is very good on dialogue, for example).

I still demo a ton of plugins constantly (a lot), and I always demo any new plugin FabFilter release due their unique UI and approach to processing, but I still tend to return to the same ‘boring’ plugin tool set.

Since I do a lot of surround and immersive audio work, the standard stereo-only plugins aren’t used as often and I will almost always select a multichannel plugin first.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 6:06 pm

Reynaud Venter wrote:I see Glenn started a trend above.


I do sincerely apologise for misspelling your name. One of the multitude of languages i speak is also French and in my head when i pronounce your name it contains an extra "l" so i wrote it as such instinctively.
I will write your name 1000 times on a blackboard and then 1000 times in reverse with a squeaking crayon so i will never forget. I hope that is enough self-punishment for you to be able to forgive my offence. :lol: :mrgreen: :D :P
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 6:22 pm

...and there I thought the apology was enough.

Now have the Simpsons theme as the current ear worm.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostWed Feb 07, 2018 9:28 pm

First, there is one feature in Fairlight that is a MUST imho, and that is saving/loading mixer channel presets, or AT LEAST being able to copy settings from one channel to another!

I must say the built in tools are very nice, and VST support would be enough for every thing else except that support still seems rather buggy and I get consistent crashes with Waves plugins and Sonic Anomaly "Unlimited".

For those who asked: FabFilter plugins are top-notch although they are not cheap. Their Pro-Q2 (EQ) is an industry standard for music production, and their new Pro-R (reverb) is one of the best i've heard.

As others have stated, the ReaPlugs bundle from Reaper is not much to look at, but it is very powerful and sonically solid.

Izotope RX is absolutely incredible, and while the 'Advanced' version is quite expensive, the "Elements" version is very reasonable and will cover most peoples needs.

Realistically, by covering dynamics and EQ, Fairlight already covers the major needs for audio production. The next most useful audio feature I would strongly suggest would surely be noise reduction. We don't need all the fancy features in RX (de-essing, de-breathing, de-clipping, etc.), just a solid hum and hiss reduction (which, as a single feature might be licensed from Izotope at a relatively low cost)...

Again, I think the built in compressor, limiter and EQ are already very capable, but we -NEED- to be able to copy/paste settings and ideally to save entire channel presets (with or without VSTs).
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Feb 08, 2018 2:40 am

In the audio world, engineers tend to go third party with plugins. Most DAWs bundle some, but they tend to be old stuff, light versions or just not all that good. There are exceptions, of course.
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Jim Simon

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Feb 08, 2018 2:59 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:It's a little difficult to schedule development work based on 'everything you don't have you need now' feedback.


A fair point. So how about this as a starting point.

All the currently included track level effects need to be native clip effects as well.
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Charles Bennett

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 9:44 pm

There are some great plugins here at truly pocket money prices.
https://www.hornetplugins.com/

Also lots of great plugins to choose from from the likes of:
Blue Cat Audio
Toneboosters
Tokyo Dawn Labs
Hofa
Soundtoys
Plugin Alliance
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Jim Simon

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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Mar 15, 2018 4:01 pm

Here's why plug-ins aren't acceptable as the only option for audio effects.

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2465534

At a very minimum, we need all the currently available track level audio effects as native clip level effects as well.
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Re: Where are all the Fairlight Audio Effects?

PostThu Mar 15, 2018 4:47 pm

Plugins or "native" as part of the host applications doesn't really matter. Audio effects consume CPU resources regardless.

A fairly common complaint about Harrison Mixbus is that it seems to have a much greater CPU load than other DAWs. The following document explains why:

https://mixbus.helpscoutdocs.com/articl ... -dsp-usage
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