Simple 5.1 audio mapping

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Dillon Brown

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostWed Oct 11, 2017 7:12 pm

Glenn Venghaus, THANK YOU! I've been trying for days to render out a 5.1 ProRes file with ALL 6 tracks combined into ONE single 5.1 track in the file. Instead of 6 separate mono tracks in the file. So this helps a lot! Way way more convoluted than 12.5 though.

Man it would be nice if Blackmagic could allow users to bypass the Fairlight tab entirely when doing audio deliverables. So a timeline could be set up with 6 mono tracks and then routed in the Audio Mixer as mono tracks - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, then on the Deliver page 6 tracks and boom! Done. Like what used to be possible...

If this is the easiest way to do it then it'll be a lot more work to set up each time.
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostWed Oct 11, 2017 7:26 pm

Eric Rosen wrote:How would you you do this setup in regards to 7.1 monitoring?


As of 14.0.1 exactly the same as descibed above for 5.1 just with a 7.1 track format, which is now available
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostWed Oct 11, 2017 7:30 pm

Dillon Brown wrote:Glenn Venghaus, THANK YOU! I've been trying for days to render out a 5.1 ProRes file with ALL 6 tracks combined into ONE single 5.1 track in the file. Instead of 6 separate mono tracks in the file. So this helps a lot! Way way more convoluted than 12.5 though.

Man it would be nice if Blackmagic could allow users to bypass the Fairlight tab entirely when doing audio deliverables. So a timeline could be set up with 6 mono tracks and then routed in the Audio Mixer as mono tracks - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, then on the Deliver page 6 tracks and boom! Done. Like what used to be possible...

If this is the easiest way to do it then it'll be a lot more work to set up each time.


Yeah its a pitty. I love fairlight , but the one thing that was more flexible in 12.5 is that you had the option NOT to fit into some existing standard like 5.1 7.1 etc . You could just create a single track with 20 channels directly mapped to it very easy if you wanted to. Fairlight FORCES you into an existing standard for single track outputs. Originaly i though the new multitrack bus type would allow you to do that but its not. You can max adress up to 8 channels in a single track using the 7.1 format.
There should be a directly patchable free format.
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostWed Oct 11, 2017 7:39 pm

Actualy i stand corrected. The same method work for up to 24 channels if instead of a 7.1 you pick an adaptive track type with 24 channels . Then map output of every track to a consecutive sub input of this track.
Maybe a recent addition or i just missed it.
So all is possible now. Just a bit different then before but once you know it its just as fast after you have done it a few times. Specialy as you can do bulk mapping in the input/output mapping menu. (eg select 24 track on the left and 24 on the right in one sweep. In 12 you needed to do it for each and every track separately.)
Then you just add this timeline track to the render output and you have a single track with 24 channels.
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Vit Reiter

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostWed Oct 11, 2017 8:50 pm

Do You find this? It is really more simple than read it.

1. Import video file with embeded 6 mono track to Media Page.
2. Right click to this video file and choose New Timeline Using Selected Clips... (You have to not to set the timeline inside pop-up window)
3. In the timeline inside the Edit Page You'll see 6 audio tracks. Delete A2 - A6.
4. Right click on right-side one of track and Delete Empty Tracks.
5. Right click on audio track A1 and choose Clip Attributes.
6. Choose second tab Audio and change Format to 5.1. (You'll see audio surround mapping. You can modify it.)
7. Right click on right-side of audio track A1 and Change Track Type to 5.1.
8. Go to Fairlight tab on the top of DaVinci Menu and choose Bus Format.
9. Change Format to 5.1 and click OK. (now You can export one audio track with embeded 5.1 sound)
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostWed Oct 11, 2017 9:57 pm

Hi Vit,

Not sure what you are trying to achieve with this convoluted way of rendering a single 5.1 audio track. The discussion above is more about mapping for monitoring AND redering in different combination using stems etc ,which makes it slightly more complex as are 2 different things.
But if you have just a single video clip with 6 mono tracks of audio and want to render out as single track with 5.1 chan layout, the simplest way is to go into clip attributes, change the audio settings from 6xmono to 1x5.1. Then drop on a timeline with single 5.1 track and render out the timeline track directly (not the main bus, but the timeline track). Done (And of course you can add a 5.1 but to monitor as well if you want.)
I have no clue why you do it your way, with deleting and changing tracks etc. That sounds just crazy and error prone and not needed.
Once you understand fairlight more (it helps it you have good general DAW knowledge about tracks/busssed/aux/ etc ect) it all becomes very easy. Just takes a little to understand the workflow and mapping possibilities.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Oct 12, 2017 12:15 am

What if I don't want single 5.1 track (which is in most cases true). I just want 6x mono to be mapped on output as 6x mono- 1:1 mapping. Simple as this. Same in case if I have e.g. 12 channels. I want pure mapping. A1,A2, A3..... to go into MOV as is, so I end up with 12 audio mono tracks with same order as audio tracks.
This should simply work by default with e.g. adaptive tracks.
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Oct 12, 2017 12:38 am

Yeez here we go again.Read this and all other similar threads .
Explained a million times by now and super simple.
Just render 6 timeline tracks directly. Has been an option since early betas. Cant get any simpler. Even simpler the DR12 in than end as no mapping needed. Juts render in the order you want them.
Or 100000 track if you like.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Oct 12, 2017 9:57 am

It wasn't working at all in (not sure) b5.
If it's working now then good.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Oct 12, 2017 5:59 pm

i have;
LtRt eng full
5.1 eng full
LtRt ME
5.1 ME
LtRt dial
LtRt SFX
LtRt mx

22 mono sources total, need to ship a Qt with all 22 tracks embedded

and do it absolutly zero error

too many places for the train to fall off the tracks in v14.01

i have hope for simple & reliable functionality soon
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Robert Arnold

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Oct 12, 2017 6:09 pm

Glenn's (convoluted and not intuitive) workaround works to get 5.1 out through my speakers, but I still can't get easyDCP to work with audio. No matter what I try, I get "easyDCP job could not be added - easyDCP requires even number of audio channels". Anybody have any ideas on this? I keep having to boot up my old system with 12.5 to author DCPs.
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Vit Reiter

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Oct 12, 2017 8:22 pm

Hi Glenn,

Yes, I can go into the attributes of the clip, change the sound settings from 6x mono to 1x5.1 and then drop into the timeline with a single 5.1 track. But I never change the source clip attributes! And returning back to Clip Attributes and returning the original clip values there is not a good way. I like better to delete any excess tracks from the timeline.

Render out the timeline track directly (not the main bus, but the timeline track) is the right way, off course.
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Oct 12, 2017 8:25 pm

@Robert,
The trick is to change the way you think and admitted that takes some time.
You have to separate monitoring from rendering. Once you get that it becomes relatively straightforward.
If rendering needs 6 mono tracks (like for easydcp) you directly add the individual stems (= timeline tracks) to the render job.
If you want to hear it on your 5.1 system , you set up an extra 5.1 print tracks as above and pipe that into a standard 5.1 main bus or if you dont mind messing with panning to the right bus , directly pan it to the 5.1 bus.
More option make it more convoluted. But by separating monitoring from rendering you can do a lot of things with a single setup that otherwise would be very difficult or even impossible.
Now you can setup a mono, a stereo , a 5.1 and a 7.1 mix at the same time, switch between them with a single mouseclick , switch between different speaker setups, and than render it out independant from all this however you want.

But again all this flexibility goes with some punishments, which is similar to any daw. I almost daily use ableton/reaper/protools (less lately) and all have complex routing and bus structures which would make you weep if you just jump in and want to setup separate multichannel monitoring and rendering options.

And it also took me time to find this all out, dont get me wrong, but i see now and appreciate the possibilities it opens up.
Maybe some preset system for average joe the colorist would be nice to add for BM so if you dont want to invest time in learning this , you can skip and just select a preset.
I suggest if you care for that to put some request in with BM for that. With enough users it might happen.
And it was already in there in a few betas, but was removed , so there is a chance it will happen.
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Robert Arnold

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Oct 12, 2017 9:54 pm

@Glenn Thanks for all your input on this forum!

What you say makes sense, but I still can't seem to get easyDCP to export audio. Here's what I get when I try to do it with individual tracks:

Screen Shot 2017-10-12 at 2.49.48 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-10-12 at 2.49.48 PM.png (346.35 KiB) Viewed 264 times
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Oct 12, 2017 9:58 pm

Thats crap indeed. I do not have nor ever had EasyDCP so cant help you there.
Either it should take a single 5.1 formatted track / bus or as you just did 6 mono channels . There aint no more flavours for a 5.1 mix. So if both dont work, maybe it is unrelated to audio but some other issue ?
Or just a bug, which sounds likely as 6 = even (at least here in the Netherlands :mrgreen: )
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V: CUDA8.0.83 | 378.05.05.05f02 | DTV10.8.6 | MiniMon-SDI >HDlinkPro > Eizo
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Oct 12, 2017 10:08 pm

Just went ahead and tried EasyDCP in demo mode (renders fine but with an demo overlay/logo) an no error for either a single 5.1 bus or 6 mono timeline tracks. So i guess the error you get is a false error message caused by something else.
Create a system log on your desktop (help menu) and examine that (unzip and look in the log files). Maybe there is some hint in there
2017-10-13_00-12-51.jpg
2017-10-13_00-12-51.jpg (236.35 KiB) Viewed 252 times
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Robert Arnold

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostFri Oct 13, 2017 4:44 am

Wow, thanks for trying that, Glenn!

I'll nose around and try to figure out where the problem is then, since it looks like tha error message is a red herring.
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Glenn Venghaus

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Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostFri Oct 13, 2017 5:15 am

Yeah looks indeed fishy.
Are you also on Mac ? As if you are on windows my test, altough indicative, has less value for your case other then saying on mac it can work.
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Robert Arnold

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Oct 26, 2017 9:25 pm

The problem is intermittent now. On some projects I get the error, on others not. Haven't been able to narrow it down or make it strictly reproducible yet...
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