Simple 5.1 audio mapping

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waltervolpatto

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Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 1:42 pm

Something i did for 15 years with ease now seems an engineer endeavor.

1) import 6 mono track give to me by the mix
2) put file "left" on track 1, "right" on track 2, then C,Lfe,Ls,Rs.
3) pipe track 1 to output 1, track 2 to output 2 and so on.

Play.

It was that simple, has been that simple for 15 years (quantel, nucoda, baselight, lustre, mistika, all have a very simple mapping).

I do not need to do mixing, i get the track already mixed: how in the good earth (hell) do i acheve this in resolve 14?
Walter Volpatto - C.S.I.
Digital Intermediate Colorist
Fotokem, Burbank. USA
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www.coloristsociety.com

Inb4YouCanJustColorComments: yes you can, good luck with that.
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 2:06 pm

I was testing that since beta 1 as use 5.1 all the time. For a very short period during the beta there was an option using the linked group method to do this with minimum effort. But it disappeared as there where some issues apparently (not sure what).
ATM the only way to do that is to MIX them to the proper position in a 5.1 main out (or bus). Which for all but the LFE is straightforward (just pan it to the right locations) but for LFE requires a trick. Fader down , set pre fader to ON and BOOM to on. Then with the boom level knob you can set the LFE level to zero (0.1 due to other bug).

Downside is that you need to have proper 5.1 monitoring otherwise you do not hear the LFE this way.
For listening to in on a stereo bus if you have no 6 speakers connected, you can temp open the fader a bit and close again before the final render.

p.s. To just render 5.1 as 6 separate tracks below a video this is not needed (in render page you can add each track as a track to the render output), but to monitor a5.1 and render as single 5.1 track , this is it for now. Things likely change as a lot of stuff in fairlight is on the move and not there yet.
A simple 1 to 1 mapping between track and channel seems an obvious and sorely missing future addition.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 4:57 pm

I understand the mixing way, that is NOT what we want it to do: way too prone to errors.

It is a final mix, no need to be "remixed".

Musty be simpler: track movie 1 mono patch to output 1. Done. Simple. No router/ mix/ pan/ error.

That's it.
Walter Volpatto - C.S.I.
Digital Intermediate Colorist
Fotokem, Burbank. USA
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www.coloristsociety.com

Inb4YouCanJustColorComments: yes you can, good luck with that.
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 4:59 pm

Of course. Thats what i also said and desperately want.
I also hate this convoluted way. Just stated the only current way available in case you did not know it yet.
Does not make the pain any better i know. Dont shoot the messenger ;-)
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Robert Arnold

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 5:00 pm

+100.

The current situation is untenable. I also have had zero luck getting a 5.1 DCP to output in 14 and have had to go to another startup disk with 12.5 in order to use EasyDCP. It is connected to audio: picture-only outputs fine to DCP but any attempt to output with audio grinds to a halt.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 5:10 pm

Glenn Venghaus wrote:Of course. Thats what i also said and desperately want.
I also hate this convoluted way. Just stated the only current way available in case you did not know it yet.
Does not make the pain any better i know. Dont shoot the messenger ;-)


Was not shooting the messenger... sorry!!!

It is just painful...
Walter Volpatto - C.S.I.
Digital Intermediate Colorist
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www.coloristsociety.com

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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 5:16 pm

@walter : i forgive you haha. I feel your pain.

Actualy , for the record, the previous link groups option also was not exactly what we wanted , but at least prevented errors etc. You selected the 6 tracks and created a 5.1 link group , which did the panning/mapping for you. But the base core way of a simple 1:1 mono track to single output "channel" mapping is not there. I tried all weird ways possible with the existing options. Had some hopes for the multichan bus type but also no go.
Its very strange.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 5:17 pm

I think the best way at the moment will be:

Have 6 mono
set track 1 as 5.1
Set main bus as 5.1 as for main output.

In fairlight, open the track 1, i can see all the 6 individual lines.

Let us drop audio file 1 on track 1 line 1
audio file 2 on track 1 line 2

And so on.

That will solve very easily. At the moment i can only drop a mono file on track # line 1.

Also allow to swap lines in the track itself as editing.
Walter Volpatto - C.S.I.
Digital Intermediate Colorist
Fotokem, Burbank. USA
www.fotokem.com
www.coloristsociety.com

Inb4YouCanJustColorComments: yes you can, good luck with that.
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 5:25 pm

For that they have to open up editing individual channels in a multichan track type.
Which is high on my wishlist anyway.So would beat 2 flies with one stone (some basic cutting, mute and attenuation is already enough to make it workable. Specially if you have 20 chan production audio in a single track for editing and dont want to hear every damn channel ;-)
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 10:03 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:I understand the mixing way, that is NOT what we want it to do: way too prone to errors.

It is a final mix, no need to be "remixed".

Musty be simpler: track movie 1 mono patch to output 1. Done. Simple. No router/ mix/ pan/ error.

That's it.

+100
and one extra...
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 10:21 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:Something i did for 15 years with ease now seems an engineer endeavor.

1) import 6 mono track give to me by the mix
2) put file "left" on track 1, "right" on track 2, then C,Lfe,Ls,Rs.
3) pipe track 1 to output 1, track 2 to output 2 and so on.

Play.

It was that simple, has been that simple for 15 years (quantel, nucoda, baselight, lustre, mistika, all have a very simple mapping).

I do not need to do mixing, i get the track already mixed: how in the good earth (hell) do i acheve this in resolve 14?


I wanted exactly the same- was told that I should move to other software if I don't like how Resolve works :D
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 10:35 pm

i just loaded v14 studio onto a machine, there were two, now there is three major area's the Resolve is falling on it's face for finishing;

- gfx/titles = laughbly bad, instant Qc fail bad, compount clip alpha's fail on and on..
- audio = just took a huge step backwards for finishing, the last thing we want is to change anything, we need nothing more and nothing less than clean and trustworthy passthough
- fixes = getting better, BCC's OFX are a huge help, as are some of the new OFX in v14, but still need a real comp tree native with editable inputs
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Eric Rosen

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 10:51 pm

I have been looking for the same answer to simple audio mapping with Resolve 14. Talked to Dmitry at BM, he pointed me to the render page. It seems simple mapping has moved to Audio tab on the render page. In my example I have 8 WAV's for 7.1 mix, 8 mono tracks setup on the timeline.

Track layout:
Track 1: L
Track 2: R
Track 3: C
Track 4: LFE
Track 5: LsS
Track 6: RsS
Track 7: LsR
Track 8: RsR

No need to touch any settings on edit page or Fairlight page. Go to Audio tab on render page, setup 8 output tracks and pick "Timeline Track" on the drop down menu.

Render setup:
Output track 1 to Timeline Track 1
Output track 2 to Timeline Track 2
Output track 3 to Timeline Track 3
Output track 4 to Timeline Track 4
Output track 5 to Timeline Track 5
Output track 6 to Timeline Track 6
Output track 7 to Timeline Track 7
Output track 8 to Timeline Track 8

2017-09-15 15_25_43-audio_test.png
2017-09-15 15_25_43-audio_test.png (66.12 KiB) Viewed 857 times


Need to do more tests and have not tried making a DCP but it seems to be working.
Eric Rosen
colomatters.tv
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 10:57 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:Something i did for 15 years with ease now seems an engineer endeavor.

1) import 6 mono track give to me by the mix
2) put file "left" on track 1, "right" on track 2, then C,Lfe,Ls,Rs.
3) pipe track 1 to output 1, track 2 to output 2 and so on.

Play.

It was that simple, has been that simple for 15 years (quantel, nucoda, baselight, lustre, mistika, all have a very simple mapping).

I do not need to do mixing, i get the track already mixed: how in the good earth (hell) do i acheve this in resolve 14?


I wanted exactly the same- was told that I should move to other software if I don't like how Resolve works :D


Nice play, i see what you did there....
Walter Volpatto - C.S.I.
Digital Intermediate Colorist
Fotokem, Burbank. USA
www.fotokem.com
www.coloristsociety.com

Inb4YouCanJustColorComments: yes you can, good luck with that.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 11:51 pm

:lol:
We really need simple 5.1 mapping in Resolve.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostSat Sep 16, 2017 12:06 am

DaVinci Resolve 14.1 coming soon to a download near you.
to the deaf person the dancer appears mad
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henry elvison

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostSat Sep 16, 2017 12:48 am

Hi BMD,

Would love to see this fixed really soon! Can't use v14 b/c of this workaround.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostSat Sep 16, 2017 12:50 am

well, it justifies keeping my two DS licences working....
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Eric Rosen

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostSat Sep 16, 2017 3:58 am

Answer I got from BM support in regards to simple audio mapping.
I setup my test timeline with 8 mono tracks for 7.1 mix.

2017-09-15 20_25_09-audio_test.png
2017-09-15 20_25_09-audio_test.png (72.71 KiB) Viewed 856 times

No additional setup on edit page, no addtional setup on Fairlight page. Go to deliver page Audio tab.
Add as many Output Tracks as you need, for my test a total of 8. Toggle pulldown on each track to say Timeline Track and then map timeline track number to output track.

In my my test:
Output Track 1 to Timeline Track 1
Output Track 2 to Timeline Track 2
Output Track 3 to Timeline Track 3
Output Track 4 to Timeline Track 4
Output Track 5 to Timeline Track 5
Output Track 6 to Timeline Track 6
Output Track 7 to Timeline Track 7
Output Track 8 to Timeline Track 8

2017-09-15 20_27_49-audio_test.png
2017-09-15 20_27_49-audio_test.png (57.69 KiB) Viewed 856 times


It seems to be working.
Eric Rosen
colomatters.tv
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostSun Sep 17, 2017 5:52 am

waltervolpatto wrote:Something i did for 15 years with ease now seems an engineer endeavor.

1) import 6 mono track give to me by the mix
2) put file "left" on track 1, "right" on track 2, then C,Lfe,Ls,Rs.
3) pipe track 1 to output 1, track 2 to output 2 and so on.

Play.

It was that simple, has been that simple for 15 years (quantel, nucoda, baselight, lustre, mistika, all have a very simple mapping).

I do not need to do mixing, i get the track already mixed: how in the good earth (hell) do i acheve this in resolve 14?


Hi Walter,

If it is just rendering a multichannel quicktime you are talking about, it is quite easy.
Fairlight page:

Select Fairlight menu item 'Bus Format'. Then add as many Main mono busses as you need for your multichannel audio which is edited in the current timeline.
Select the main bus destination from the mixer track Main output selector boxes.

On the Deliver page under the audio settings you can add mono output channels and assign the Fairlight Main busses to the appropriate output channel.

Done!

It's a VERY flexible audio routing setup, but a bit hard to understand if you have not done audio console work. The manual (as usual) has quite a bit more detail about how to use busses for different purposes.

Screen Shot 2017-09-17 at 3.39.47 pm.png
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostSun Sep 17, 2017 6:35 am

Tnx, but i already mentioned that. But based on the reactions and on my own needs its that you can not monitor it like this . Its like rendering your color without a monitor output. You want to see/hear what you are doing. Like if you swapped a channel or somthing else simple is wrong. You need to hear what you are doing.
During the betas they added this output feature , which is a super addition and use on a regular base for outputing multichannel dailies/intermediates etc. You output anything now, tracks, busses etc.
But the monitor as opposed to the output has remained very stiff , forcing you in standard audio formats and with that without the option to even direct adress channels without having to use panning.
For sure it will come in next releases as fairlightb is in and evolving state. I am sure of it.
In the mean time i just use the contorted way of doing the same thing.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 6:35 am

Hi Glenn,

yeah the audio side of Resolve is fairly awful at the moment. My setup monitors bus 1 & 2 through the mini monitor SDI out, so whichever (mono tracks) channels I have selected to Main bus 1 & 2 mix together as a mono monitoring feed. It's not ideal, but at least I can select anything I want to monitor. We don't monitor in 5.1, only stereo so for people needing proper 5.1 monitoring.... I feel the pain.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 6:54 am

Monitoring in Resolve/Fairlight is pretty straightforward once you learn the system (as with any workstation). And, it really is a fantastic system.

Successfully monitoring in 7.1 here almost daily, simultaneously routing Direct Track and Buss Outputs to hardware Print Recorders, printing Stems to Print Audio Tracks in tandem, monitoring the Downmixes to 5.1 and Stereo on the fly, and switching between all of them (and my Auxes and SubMixes) with a click.

Sure there are several improvements required to allow more flexibility (such as hardware tactile control and more than 16 outputs), but I'm honestly surprised the system works this well after attempting to integrate another complete workstation in to Resolve.
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 7:13 am

More changes to Fairlight are coming, and I think the manual is going to be updated with more information. I am told there is also going to be a standalone book on Fairlight mixing and editing.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 1:21 pm

@Reynaud,

Dont get me wrong, i completely agree and find it all fantastic. But there is always room for improvement, special where it comes into not just beeing able to do it, but to do it instinctively without too much hastle. Thats what we talk about.
I also route things left and right , monitor at the same time in stereo, LCR and 5.1 with a flick of the dropdown menu, different speaker setups for different scenarios can be setup, print busses, sub busses, it is realy all cool stuff they did.
Not for the average colorist though, so for that add a few simple one trick/click ponies and it is perfect ;-)
Sometimes when you develop all this beauty you forget the simple stuff , which trips up most users . Like re-ordering vst's, basic automation editing (specially if you have upgraded a project from 12 that has automation that is now locked in), missing clip pan automation or keyframing (was in 12) and the here discussed simple 1-to-1 ,track-to-channel mapping you find in any editor or daw, and there are more of these so called little but fairly disruptive things we have to wait for unfortunately.

But as we all know by now, its coming, we just want it ALL and we want it NOW :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
They made it so good we want more of it
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 1:25 pm

Peter Cave wrote:Hi Glenn,

yeah the audio side of Resolve is fairly awful at the moment.


We dont agree , sorry. I love it. Just lacking a few features we are trying to adress but i am patient.
And as mentioned/demonstrated/known it is possible to monitor in any format, just a bit more convoluted.
But it absolutely mindblowing what hey did. So calling it awfull are your words, not even close to mine
Last edited by Glenn Venghaus on Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 1:27 pm

Glenn Venghaus wrote:But as we all know by now, its coming, we just want it ALL and we want it NOW :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I'm sure there's a song for that.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 1:28 pm

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waltervolpatto

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 1:35 pm

Reynaud Venter wrote:Monitoring in Resolve/Fairlight is pretty straightforward once you learn the system (as with any workstation). And, it really is a fantastic system.

Successfully monitoring in 7.1 here almost daily, simultaneously routing Direct Track and Buss Outputs to hardware Print Recorders, printing Stems to Print Audio Tracks in tandem, monitoring the Downmixes to 5.1 and Stereo on the fly, and switching between all of them (and my Auxes and SubMixes) with a click.

Sure there are several improvements required to allow more flexibility (such as hardware tactile control and more than 16 outputs), but I'm honestly surprised the system works this well after attempting to integrate another complete workstation in to Resolve.


I'm glad you're able to do it, can you explain the simplest solution to the problem?
Walter Volpatto - C.S.I.
Digital Intermediate Colorist
Fotokem, Burbank. USA
www.fotokem.com
www.coloristsociety.com

Inb4YouCanJustColorComments: yes you can, good luck with that.
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 1:57 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:
Reynaud Venter wrote:can you explain the simplest solution to the problem?
some of my workflow was discussed in the following thread:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=63130

Note that solution 1 isn't possible with the release version. Beta 8 (I think) was the last version to include Link Groups.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 2:11 pm

What you could do is take open the fairlight menu to patch input/output,
then on the left find the "track reproduction" and patch each track one by one to on the right "audio outputs"

That way the track output is (bypassing any fader /pan etc etc) piped directly to your 5.1 monitors.
Downside is it also bypasses the VU meters (stay blank) .

Will experiment a bit more and see if there is a way as simple as this but maintains level display for you visual feedback. For rendering you have to then add all tracks to the render stack as before.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 2:18 pm

Page 1118/9 of the Manual covers the different Audio Source and Destination options quite well, to allow Direct Outputs to be routed and bypass certain sections of Resolve's Mixer completely, where required.

Also discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=64243#p363058
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 2:35 pm

An alternative way to the way showed in last post where i used the track reproduction output, which does not allow visual monitoring , you can instead use the following, with a few minor extra clicks.

Assuming you have setup your 5.1 control room monitoring with 6 speakers :
- create 6 mono main busses (name them to make life easier)
- go to patch in/out and patch these 6 mono busses directly to the appropriate 6 audio outputs
- then in mixer assign the 6 tracks/stems sequentially to the 6 main busses.
See image.
So now you have monitoring of the signal and can adjust/trim volume levels if needed . No panning is needed as all mono busses and directly mapped to 6 outputs


So in the end it does seem all possible , just have to puzzle a bit for the best results. In/OUT direction naming seems not always the most obvious and you need to get used to with routing source/dest etc. We saw that already in the betas.
Obvious ones like track direct out , if i map these , it does not work and fairlight starts playig everyting at 200% and resets the mapping. So probably not allowed or what.

Anyway, This should get us where we want to go i guess . Its a only a few extra clicks.
Next tho this , you can of course then also setup an extra busses/tracks etc for example for a 5.1 to 2.0 downmix plugin so you can monitor in stereo properly or on headsets etc etc.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 3:17 pm

Reynaud Venter wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:
Reynaud Venter wrote:can you explain the simplest solution to the problem?
some of my workflow was discussed in the following thread:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=63130

Note that solution 1 isn't possible with the release version. Beta 8 (I think) was the last version to include Link Groups.


After the link group are gone, we are down to panning manually, that is not an option being probe to errirs: mix is done, i have to listen to and export.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 3:18 pm

Glenn Venghaus wrote:What you could do is take open the fairlight menu to patch input/output,
then on the left find the "track reproduction" and patch each track one by one to on the right "audio outputs"

That way the track output is (bypassing any fader /pan etc etc) piped directly to your 5.1 monitors.
Downside is it also bypasses the VU meters (stay blank) .

Will experiment a bit more and see if there is a way as simple as this but maintains level display for you visual feedback. For rendering you have to then add all tracks to the render stack as before.


Also you cannot export in this configuration
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 3:19 pm

Glenn Venghaus wrote:An alternative way to the way showed in last post where i used the track reproduction output, which does not allow visual monitoring , you can instead use the following, with a few minor extra clicks.

Assuming you have setup your 5.1 control room monitoring with 6 speakers :
- create 6 mono main busses (name them to make life easier)
- go to patch in/out and patch these 6 mono busses directly to the appropriate 6 audio outputs
- then in mixer assign the 6 tracks/stems sequentially to the 6 main busses.
See image.
So now you have monitoring of the signal and can adjust/trim volume levels if needed . No panning is needed as all mono busses and directly mapped to 6 outputs


So in the end it does seem all possible , just have to puzzle a bit for the best results. In/OUT direction naming seems not always the most obvious and you need to get used to with routing source/dest etc. We saw that already in the betas.
Obvious ones like track direct out , if i map these , it does not work and fairlight starts playig everyting at 200% and resets the mapping. So probably not allowed or what.

Anyway, This should get us where we want to go i guess . Its a only a few extra clicks.
Next tho this , you can of course then also setup an extra busses/tracks etc for example for a 5.1 to 2.0 downmix plugin so you can monitor in stereo properly or on headsets etc etc.


Will try this. Thanks.
Walter Volpatto - C.S.I.
Digital Intermediate Colorist
Fotokem, Burbank. USA
www.fotokem.com
www.coloristsociety.com

Inb4YouCanJustColorComments: yes you can, good luck with that.
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 3:33 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:Also you cannot export in this configuration


waltervolpatto wrote:
Will try this. Thanks.


Yeah forget the first. Here you CAN export ;-)
Add the mono busses all in order to the output stack, or the tracks. Both work.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 3:40 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:After the link group are gone, we are down to panning manually, that is not an option being probe to errirs: mix is done, i have to listen to and export.
I'm sure the Link Group feature will be reintroduced in the near future, it is such a key piece of functionality.

The other option, of course (in the meantime), would be to request a 5.1 Interleaved broadcast wave file, and to simply create a 5.1 Audio Track in the Timeline, along with a 5.1 Master Buss in the Buss Format window, and route the Audio Track to the Main Buss.

Finally, drag-drop the 5.1 Interleaved Mix file (from Finder or Explorer) on to the 5.1 Audio Track and all routing is taken care of automatically. No fiddling with panning and worrying about operator error.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 4:23 pm

Reynaud Venter wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:After the link group are gone, we are down to panning manually, that is not an option being probe to errirs: mix is done, i have to listen to and export.
I'm sure the Link Group feature will be reintroduced in the near future, it is such a key piece of functionality.

The other option, of course (in the meantime), would be to request a 5.1 Interleaved broadcast wave file, and to simply create a 5.1 Audio Track in the Timeline, along with a 5.1 Master Buss in the Buss Format window, and route the Audio Track to the Main Buss.

Finally, drag-drop the 5.1 Interleaved Mix file (from Finder or Explorer) on to the 5.1 Audio Track and all routing is taken care of automatically. No fiddling with panning and worrying about operator error.


For other reasons, we Can't ask for interleaved masters...
Walter Volpatto - C.S.I.
Digital Intermediate Colorist
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 4:57 pm

@ Walter,

Did some more test with my last proposed sollution. And it is (still) working great BUT (there is alway a but here ...)
I found out that mapping stuff directly to outputs is overwritten after any change in the selected controlroom out (the dropdown menu below controlroom meters. This in itself would be not too bad if you dont touch it, but after each restart of resolve it does not remember the active setting and selects the default (1st) controlroom layout and thereby overwrites the speaker setup belonging to that . And i guess even havig just one CR setup would not change that re-init of outputs behavior. Would be nice if you can save these sot of mapping on a project base , but i guess touching the direct outputs is treated as system setting and stored as such.
So after each restart you need to repeat the IN/OUT mapping of the 6 mono masters to the 6 direct outputs, while having selected the target controlroom speaker setup you want to overwrite , which has to be the 5.1 setup of course. Then dont touch it untill finished. Sigh.... But until better comes along i can live with 30sec extra project startup time to do this.
Its the penalty of not beeing able (yet) to directy map to targeted channel in a single multichan bus , which is a logical entity , rather then an output , which is a physical endpoint.
We still cant have it all i guess, but at least its possible somehow.
Lots of stuff in that area does not survive a restart.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 5:44 pm

Waiting for better (14.1?)
I find it much easier when you have 6 monos to do:
Media tab:
6 tracks monos
Edit tab:
Create a TL with 6 mono => place
menu fairlight => bus format => 5.1
Tab Fairlight: just pan (L,R,C,Lfe, etc...) + boon lfe.
Tab delivery:
Audio => Linear PCM
Render One Track Per Cannel (if you want 6 tracks in a wav)
Output Main 1 (5.1) : done.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 5:47 pm

As i am not known for giving up finding a solution to a problem , i found an even better way then my last suggestion, which also survives the restarts as does not involve mapping directly to outputs.
Instead it maps to an extra 5.1 "PRINT" track, put into "THRU" mode. You can put it also into REC mode if you want to record a full 5.1 mix, or just leave in thru and render out the main bus.

So
1 - set the main output to 5.1 format
2 - add a single extra 5.1 track
3 - in the IN/OUT patcher , patch the "track reproduction outs" to the 6 sub "track inputs" of the PRINT track
4. Set the PRINT track into TRU mode and make sure it outputs to master bus.
5. and finaly but important DISABLE the output of all individual tracks as indicated in image. And/or you can also mute them , more visual protection !!!

Full visual monitoring in individual channels as well as the combined 5.1 and no panning needed


To render , just render out the main 5.1 bus .
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 6:01 pm

Jean Claude wrote:Waiting for better (14.1?)
I find it much easier when you have 6 monos to do:
Media tab:
6 tracks monos
Edit tab:
Create a TL with 6 mono => place
menu fairlight => bus format => 5.1
Tab Fairlight: just pan (L,R,C,Lfe, etc...) + boon lfe.
Tab delivery:
Audio => Linear PCM
Render One Track Per Cannel (if you want 6 tracks in a wav)
Output Main 1 (5.1) : done.


I hope you have not delivered like this to any cinema as you will see that your LFE signal has been mixed with other tracks depeding on your pan position. You need to set PRE fader monitoring on in LFE channel and drop volume to zero if you want to use the MIX method. The devil is in the details

But has been discussed at length before and exactly what we dont want for this stem workflow . So no need to repeat that.
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 6:33 pm

Reynaud Venter wrote:Page 1118/9 of the Manual covers the different Audio Source and Destination options quite well, to allow Direct Outputs to be routed and bypass certain sections of Resolve's Mixer completely, where required.

Also discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=64243#p363058


pg 1118/1119 are garbage unless you know the secret handshake, not inteligable

one issue i have is 16 ch to map from the timeline to the output page with out altering / mixing / panning them WHAT.SO.EVER

the main buss trick ends at 8 main busses. so a non-starter

end game for me today is moveing back to 12.5.6 where the simple pass through of a mixed feature film is reliable, trustworthy and transparent, and the mixer hears a DCP that matches his mix theatre

something the fairlight page is complete fail at currently
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 6:43 pm

Dermot Shane wrote:one issue i have is 16 ch to map from the timeline to the output page with out altering / mixing / panning them WHAT.SO.EVER



Agree on manual but mixing panning etc for rendering is not needed. This stuff we are discussing is all about monitoring. For just 1:1 rendering you can directly add tracks to the render output. If you have 100 tracks you can add them all to the output . Select in the audio render options "timeline track" and you can then select the track number. Then click plus to add more and more and more. I use this for dailies/intermediates with 10+ channels of production audio for example

p.s. Its an important distinction that i see mixed a lot in these discussions.
You have to , and that is true for any DAW, mentally separate how you want to MONITOR something and what you want to RENDER.
Atm there are absolutely no limits on what you can output . Be it a single 50 channel audio track or 50 individual mono track or any combination of channels and tracks. No mixing needed at all . You can if you want but not needed. You render directly tracks if you want no business with panning/mixing etc.
You render busses, sub busses whatever if you want to mix stuff together into a specific standard or in a free format.
For Monitoring you "separately" from above set up either some mix to your available monitoring/speaker setup , be it mono,stereo , lcr, 5.1, 7.1.
These can be the same , but can be completely different. Simplest example of this is rendering 5.1 but monitoring submixed over a stereo bus.

And there is where the only limitations are atm. If you need to monitor to a speaker setup larger then 7.1 (i hate you , i am so jealous) then the only option is to directly map each track or mono sub output directly to a single output . This as mentioned works to any system even a 50.1 speaker setup, but does not survive a restart.
But if you have a monitoring system like this you should be ashamed :mrgreen:
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostTue Sep 19, 2017 12:06 am

Glenn Venghaus wrote: For just 1:1 rendering you can directly add tracks to the render output. If you have 100 tracks you can add them all to the output . Select in the audio render options "timeline track" and you can then select the track number. Then click plus to add more and more and more. I use this for dailies/intermediates with 10+ channels of production audio for example


thanks for that, simple and effective it seems, and it's not in the manual;

Output Track #: This pop-up menu lets you choose which Main or Submix you want to output. A Plus button to the right lets you add additional tracks you want to export in this job, so if you want to export multiple Mains or multiple Subs, you can add more Track pop-ups.
When you choose a track with multiple channels of audio, a field appears showing how many channels will be output; you have the option of using a virtual slider to change how many channels are output.


it talks about audio f'd around in fairlight, no mention of patching straight from the timeline to output with out any chance of fairlight induced damage inbetween

when i load 14.1 i'll give this a shot...

if it's realy that simple, it's hard to see why it has to be hidden underneath a mountain of useless verbage
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostTue Sep 19, 2017 6:21 am

Dermot Shane wrote:
thanks for that, simple and effective it seems, and it's not in the manual;



Yeah it a hidden gem. Some of the most usefull features are sometimes the hardest to find. Even with hindsite they seem obvious. It popped up only a few betas ago in its release nodes, guess too late to make it in the manual. :mrgreen:
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostWed Sep 20, 2017 12:03 pm

Glenn Venghaus wrote:[...]In/OUT direction naming seems not always the most obvious and you need to get used to with routing source/dest etc.[...]


That's quite an understatement! I guess everything is upside-down and backwards in Australia compared to North America. Will take a while to get used to the idea that "Main Output" is a default source, to be routed by default to "Track Inputs". Again, here in North America, we think of Tracks as sources and Main Busses as outputs. Just sayin...
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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostWed Sep 20, 2017 6:06 pm

I flipped my monitor around verticaly and horizontaly to make i normal again. I got confused too much :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Eric Rosen

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Re: Simple 5.1 audio mapping

PostWed Sep 27, 2017 2:44 am

How would you you do this setup in regards to 7.1 monitoring?

Glenn Venghaus wrote:As i am not known for giving up finding a solution to a problem , i found an even better way then my last suggestion, which also survives the restarts as does not involve mapping directly to outputs.
Instead it maps to an extra 5.1 "PRINT" track, put into "THRU" mode. You can put it also into REC mode if you want to record a full 5.1 mix, or just leave in thru and render out the main bus.

So
1 - set the main output to 5.1 format
2 - add a single extra 5.1 track
3 - in the IN/OUT patcher , patch the "track reproduction outs" to the 6 sub "track inputs" of the PRINT track
4. Set the PRINT track into TRU mode and make sure it outputs to master bus.
5. and finaly but important DISABLE the output of all individual tracks as indicated in image. And/or you can also mute them , more visual protection !!!

Full visual monitoring in individual channels as well as the combined 5.1 and no panning needed
Eric Rosen
colomatters.tv
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