240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

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Andrei Andreev

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240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostThu Oct 19, 2017 10:57 pm

Trying to use 1080p/240fps clips from iphone 8+. Seems like 120fps is the max frame rate in the Clip Attributes. This prevents me from using the sound of the clip as I have to speed it up to 200% in order to view at normal speed in the timeline.

My scenario is a one take video with variable speed. It starts with the 240fps clip at normal (real-life) speed and then slowing down parts of it, making use of the high frame rate data.

Any advice on how to place such a clip on the timeline at 100% speed so that the sound is available and sync'ed? I would like to retain the output at 24fps.
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rick.lang

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240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostFri Oct 20, 2017 5:53 pm

Maximum ‘project’ video frame rate on the Timeline is 120 fps in Resolve 14. No idea how you can put the 96 KHz audio on a 24 fps timeline and stretch the audio to make 9.6 KHz audio intelligible when you’re doing 10x slow motion. Optical Flow can generate extra images, but there isn’t an Audio Flow feature to generate 10x the audio, is there? Without Audio Flow, even if you could stretch the audio clip, what’s it going to ssoooouuuuunnndd like?


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Chad Capeland

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostFri Oct 20, 2017 9:45 pm

Yes, you can interpolate audio samples. It's not going to do just step or linear interpolation of the samples.
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rick.lang

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostSat Oct 21, 2017 6:33 am

Thanks, Chad, for the correction. What would you recommend to answer the OP?


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Marc Wielage

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostSat Oct 21, 2017 8:56 am

Andrei Andreev wrote:Trying to use 1080p/240fps clips from iphone 8+. Seems like 120fps is the max frame rate in the Clip Attributes. This prevents me from using the sound of the clip as I have to speed it up to 200% in order to view at normal speed in the timeline.

I think for varispeed projects, it's always a wise idea to record with double-system audio and adjust the WAV file as needed. The sound within the camera file should be only a reference (if that).
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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Chad Capeland

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostSat Oct 21, 2017 2:56 pm

rick.lang wrote:Thanks, Chad, for the correction. What would you recommend to answer the OP?


Add his name to the list of users who want Resolve to support arbitrary framerates? Using a separate audio recorder as Marc suggests, recording 192KHz is the way to go, but Resolve still won't play back the combined audio and picture at the right speed because Resolve insists on having predefined framerates.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostSun Oct 22, 2017 7:47 am

A side fancy phones, can you explain when di i need 240?

Before wasting resourced for that, i want to have the ability to have timelines in different fps in the same project.
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rick.lang

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240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostSun Oct 22, 2017 6:38 pm

Unless we’re shooting a frog capturing an insect, 10x slow motion would leave me impatiently waiting for something to happen. Even a sports event playing at 60 fps is served well by simply using 2x slow motion as we review the play. But yes 240 fps for a few brief seconds of playing time could be entertaining and informative in that scenario.

I have occasionally shot action clips with 120 fps sensor frame rate for playback at 60 fps, but I agree with Walter’s thinking as you double or quadruple your data requirement (not to mention the impact on your audio) so it’s used very sparingly.

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Marc Wielage

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostMon Oct 23, 2017 3:19 am

waltervolpatto wrote:Before wasting resourced for that, i want to have the ability to have timelines in different fps in the same project.

That would be infinitely more useful -- having the speed dedicated to a specific timeline rather than the entire project.

rick.lang wrote:Unless we’re shooting a frog capturing an insect, 10x slow motion would leave me impatiently waiting for something to happen. Even a sports event playing at 60 fps is served well by simply using 2x slow motion as we review the play. But yes 240 fps for a few brief seconds of playing time could be entertaining and informative in that scenario.

It could be, but again the problem of audio still arises, I think you're much better off recording on a stable external device that delivers normal-speed audio that can then be manipulated in post. We've been doing this for many decades from film with various audio formats (even mag tape and 35mm mag film) for a long time, and it actually works very well. Sync sound in a camera is not going to be an issue with high-speed insect footage -- just get a very simple audio recorder and a decent mic, put the mic in the right place, and hit record.
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Piotr Wozniacki

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostMon Oct 23, 2017 4:48 am

At least it works the other way around - my 2K@240fps clips from Shogun Inferno can be correctly interpreted as 240 fps, and by putting them on a 24p timeline I'm getting such a beautiful 10x slowmo :)

No sound though, of course.

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Chad Capeland

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostMon Oct 23, 2017 4:17 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:Before wasting resourced for that, i want to have the ability to have timelines in different fps in the same project.

That would be infinitely more useful -- having the speed dedicated to a specific timeline rather than the entire project.


I wasn't expecting them to be mutually exclusive. Even if you had multiple timelines at different speeds, if you can't set the correct framerate of the clip, you're still having a problem.

We're assuming footage is always shot at an integer framerate and never goes above 120. Resolve is perfectly happy at 29.97, but not at 72.5 or 180.0.
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Chad Capeland

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostMon Oct 23, 2017 4:32 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:A side fancy phones, can you explain when di i need 240?


IDT and Vision Research have whole businesses units built around the demand for professional cameras that exist solely to shoot >120 fps.

The data rate isn't much of an issue because you only have to process the frames at the rate your Playback Frame Rate. So no different than say, a 60fps project. No one is asking for 1000fps realtime playback, just the ability to have the clips occupy the correct space on the timeline, line up to timecode, sync to audio, etc.
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Andrei Andreev

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostMon Oct 23, 2017 6:32 pm

Thank you all for your replies.

@Piotr, are you saying that the 240fps is available in the clip attributes for footage from the Shogun Inferno?

In case it was not clear, what I was hoping to achieve was to have the 240p clip placed in the 24p timeline at 100% so that the sound is available for at least the "normal" speed portion of the rendered version. Now I know to always bring a sound recorder, but I didn't for this project and I am not going to reshoot. In an ideal world, I would be able to use the sound from the same device if I wanted to... bringing a sound recorder in a run (literally!) and gun situation like this one would've probably complicated things too much. So I used stock sound.

Also, I believe that 240fps setting in the clip attributes IS available for iPhone 6 (720p though) so this may be a temporary situation until DR catches up. So I hope this is not a major change (agreeing with @Chad's comment).

As for the discussion about whether anyone would ever need 240p, I hope we can all agree that different projects call for different tools. This is obviously a corner case but having to work around limitations of the software is not fun for anybody.

I imagine "dancemoment 432" may be unwatchably slow/boring for many and I can understand why. It was important enough for me to buy the iPhone 8+ and put effort into producing. I see the result as a successful rendition of my vision. I enjoy slowing down to connect to the sense of timelessness and to the texture of the dance.
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Piotr Wozniacki

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostWed Oct 25, 2017 5:54 am

Andrei Andreev wrote:@Piotr, are you saying that the 240fps is available in the clip attributes for footage from the Shogun Inferno?


Definitely so, Andrei. I never checked it before, but the newest (8.41) firmware for Shogun Inferno makes it possible to record 2K@240fps from my Sony FS7 RAW SDI output (of course, this is only available with the RAW extension unit XDCA). But once loaded into DR media bin, in Properties of such recorded clips, the fps drop-down list DOES contain 240.

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Andrei Andreev

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostWed Oct 25, 2017 7:21 pm

Thank you Piotr. So 240fps is definitely possible as a clip property and I am hoping that it will soon be available for the newly released iPhone8.
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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostThu Oct 26, 2017 2:52 pm

Piotr Wozniacki wrote:
Andrei Andreev wrote:@Piotr, are you saying that the 240fps is available in the clip attributes for footage from the Shogun Inferno?


Definitely so, Andrei. I never checked it before, but the newest (8.41) firmware for Shogun Inferno makes it possible to record 2K@240fps from my Sony FS7 RAW SDI output (of course, this is only available with the RAW extension unit XDCA). But once loaded into DR media bin, in Properties of such recorded clips, the fps drop-down list DOES contain 240.

Piotr


Interesting. I wonder how we can apply that to other clips. Like if you exported that clip to a DPX sequence and pulled it in, it wouldn't match, but there's an internal way of setting it correctly.
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Piotr Wozniacki

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostSun Nov 05, 2017 5:20 am

Doesn't Resolve simply see/read some metadata/flag which is present with my 240fps Inferno clip, but not with others?

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Chad Capeland

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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostSun Nov 05, 2017 6:35 pm

Piotr Wozniacki wrote:Doesn't Resolve simply see/read some metadata/flag which is present with my 240fps Inferno clip, but not with others?

Piotr


But an image sequence has no such metadata.
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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostWed Mar 07, 2018 3:58 pm

It would be very nice if we could input custom framerates at more than 120fps. I currently have a timeline full of stuff shot at 150fps that's been handed over to me. The editor has changed a lot of the framerates of these clips in Premiere from 25fps to 150fps to run them at real time. The clips come into Resolve at 25fps. This means half my timeline is out and I'm having to eyeball in and outpoints of every other clip.
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Re: 240 fps unavailable in clip attributes (v.14)

PostTue May 22, 2018 6:44 am

All this extremely technical talk is giving me a headache lol. I have been using resolve for awhile now to edit my YouTube videos I record with OBS in 60fps and have loved the program. I just bought a new Gopro Hero 6 black and it has the ability to shoot in 1080p @ 240fps. I wanted to shoots some clips for really good slow motion footage, but when I try to open the files in resolve it only imports the audio file it seems like.

After reading through this post it seems like I am not able to edit 240fps video and the cap is 120fps?

Also most of you guys seem to know a lot about video so i also wanted to ask some newbie questions if thats cool. When i shoot with 1080p @ 240fps the video is fuzzy on play back and seems to be a lot darker. The only time I feel like the video looks extreme good was at 1080p @ 30fps.

So I guess my question is; when should I use 1080p vs 4k and at what frame rate? I would like to be able to edit some clips into slow motion. Do I need to specifically decide what clips I want to shoot for slow motion and change the settings for that situation and then for normal speed video that I want to look as best as possible have it set for 4k 30fps?

What would be your guys recommendations? Sorry for the rookie questions. I appreciate your time.

Thanks, Kevin.

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