Blackmagic Forum

I'm heavy Premiere user who is willing to switch to Resolve but I have one major issue. I can't see any options to edit with timeline over timeline like I'm used to do in Premiere.
In the past I've been color grading with Resolve, but I've never tried to edit. With big projects working with two timelines simultaneously is crucial for fast editing. Is there the same option within Resolve 14?
I'm uploading the screenshot for better understanding.

Hey Slaven

There isn't any way to do this in Resolve. this is very much a Premiere/FCP7 thing.
I admit it has advantages.
However,I'm not criticizing your technique, but do note that it isn't a common or crucial practice. Avid doesn't offer this possibility and very big projects are cut on it daily.

Alternatively, Resolve does have a useful Timeline comparison tool that PP doesn't (P304 in manual)


The Resolve interface would have to change quite heavily in order to offer such behavior... I wouldn't bet on it changing that way soon. (or maybe not... like floating bins, we could get floating timelines some day )

If it's any help, you can work with two timelines simultaneously by swapping them back and forth between timeline and source monitor.

Drag the 2nd timeline into the source monitor. Ctrl-pgup swaps the source monitor timeline into the timeline GUI and the GUI timeline goes to the source monitor, on a toggle, back and forth.

The idea is to mark in/out points where things are more easily seen in the timeline GUI, then switch back to target timeline for the actual edit.

Hector Berrebi wrote:The Resolve interface would have to change quite heavily in order to offer such behavior.

I do think that's what needs to happen here. Premiere Pro is the GUI model all NLEs should be using. There's none better.

I agree, PrmPro has a great interface and Resolve could do with improving how you edit from one timeline to another. They both could do with some improvements - S-A-M Quantel Rio /qEdit has a great interface which allows you to gang numerous timelines together, each with a mini view of the edits within it, it's fantastic for certain types of work. At a minimum you want to zoom the view of the source timeline.

Is there a way to edit from one timeline into another without it nesting (Compound) the clips, other than cmd+drag from the source viewer?

Definitely in favour of the dual timelines request, and one I’ve also made. The primary elements are already available within Resolve, just not in combination.

This is the workflow employed within my primary audio workstation, and one I would like to continue with in Resolve for audio editing.

In my standard workflow, usually, a minimum of 3 EDLs (Timelines) are open within a Project, editing between EDLs to construct the various release versions, and other final Project edits.

That efficiency would be appreciated within Resolve.

Jim Simon wrote:I do think that's what needs to happen here. Premiere Pro is the GUI model all NLEs should be using. There's none better.

You like the flexibility? What specifically do you like about it? I was never a big fan of Premiere for editing but I really liked the way they implemented flexible panel arrangements.

Steve Alexander wrote:I really liked the way they implemented flexible panel arrangements.

That is what's so great about the Adobe GUI. You can arrange panels anywhere, anyway you want. There's really no limitations.

Thanks guys for all the answers and there is only hope developers would recognise the need for working with parallel timelines. That's the only option I'm missing within Davinci Resolve.
Yes I know there ain't so many people who used to work that way but it's faster and more intuitive.
Unfortunately Adobe doesn't solve bugs in Premiere that last for years and Davinci Resolve had become amazing editor, but inability to working with simultaneous timelines is really handicap for us who used to work that way. Hope they will include that option in the future.

Slaven,

Out of genuine curiosity, what do you use the dual timelines for? I've never edited that way, but I'm open understanding under what circumstances that it's useful. Thanks so much!

+1 for parallel timelines and flexible panels.

Lets assume for a moment you can define some panel layouts in Resolve, using the existing panels, but you can't stack them on top of each other. Please let me know where you place them to suit your different operational requirements and ill look at it further. Requests to randomly place anything anywhere are not going to help but defined workflow and use case for different layouts can help.

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Lets assume for a moment you can define some panel layouts in Resolve, using the existing panels, but you can't stack them on top of each other.

Hi Peter

Considering the standard shape of a timeline, there aren't that many possibilities to start with.
There is an editing technique (mainly in PP and RIP-FCP7) called Pancake Editing that does involve stacking timelines and is used in various workflows, namely adding selections to an edited sequence.

If Resolve offered tabs in timeline (which it sort of does in the top program viewer menu) than it would be, at least visually, closer to PP and many multiple timeline workflows such as suggested by Reynaud in this thread.

A third way would be a floating timeline window, like the floating bin.
It can be limited to 1 or 2 to avoid interface mess. as soon as it is selected the viewer switches to it.
an "Always on Top" checkbox would be nice.

I think "tabbed" timelines in the Edit page would be very useful and would not clutter the interface too much.

Timeline pancake aside.. requests are for layout flexibility so what are those layouts?

Peter Chamberlain wrote:requests are for layout flexibility so what are those layouts?

One possible implementation I had in mind was to allow the user to specify to which screens certain Panels are assigned.

For example, with a dual screen layout on the Fairlight page (screen 1: Timeline / screen 2: Mixer):

Screen 1
Left: Inspector / Metadata / Effects Library
Right: Media Pool



The Index Panel would be assigned to the left of the Mixer, while also separating control of the Meters and Control Room.

Screen 2
Left: Index (alt)
Right: Control Room / Meters

One suggestion (referring back to the Pancake timeline thoughts) I think a mini timeline view, kind of like the 'overview' in DS or the Resolve colour page, but under the source monitor. Premiere Pro could do with this too.

Jamie Dickinson wrote: I think a mini timeline view, kind of like the 'overview' in DS or the Resolve colour page, but under the source monitor. Premiere Pro could do with this too.

I like the mini TL view idea..
It even sort of exists on the new Macbook Pro touch bar. And quite nifty

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Timeline pancake aside.. requests are for layout flexibility so what are those layouts?

The mentioned "flexibility" is Premiere's freedom to dock/undock any panel in any conceivable configuration.
I think it has less to do with a specific layout that is advantageous, and more to do with the general sense of freedom and customize-ability of the tool.

Avid or FCPX editors (and others) that are used to a more stiff interface approach would maybe less see it as a need when coming into Resolve, as it isn't really a need by itself in order to deliver video work properly.

Personally, the places I feel constrained in Resolve layouts aren't that much in the Edit room.

The Nodes window in the color room is the main panel I'd like more control over (or layouts supporting it),
often needing it bigger than I can have, floating or taking the whole second monitor.

I'd also like a layout supporting floating Scopes in dual screen in the color room.

And a feature that keeps them (and floating bins) always on top

Reynaud Venter wrote:

Peter Chamberlain wrote:requests are for layout flexibility so what are those layouts?

One possible implementation I had in mind was to allow the user to specify to which screens certain Panels are assigned.

For example, with a dual screen layout on the Fairlight page (screen 1: Timeline / screen 2: Mixer):

Screen 1
Left: Inspector / Metadata / Effects Library
Right: Media Pool

Screen 1.png

The Index Panel would be assigned to the left of the Mixer, while also separating control of the Meters and Control Room.

Screen 2
Left: Index (alt)
Right: Control Room / Meters

Screen 2.png

Thanks for feedback. I think top left to bottom right so media pool would be left of left hand side monitor as its the source, track hide/view marker selection could be between the timeline and mixer. .. good to get more feedback from others too.

Peter, as an basic answer easily understandable even without screenshot I couldn't provide now, I think that tabbed TL in the Edit page would widely adress a lot of requests.
I'll come back here later on and will edit this post to add a screenshot of the FCP7 way

Imho, even if panels couldn't move, opening several TL to compare and work would be highly appreciable.

Peter Chamberlain wrote:I think top left to bottom right so media pool would be left of left hand side monitor as its the source

Part of my thinking was that the Media Pool is positioned on the right on both the Media and Edit pages when in dual screen mode. In practice, this allows drag-dropping on to Viewers or the Timeline from the right to the left. So for consistency's sake, the Media Pool would be positioned to the right on the Fairlight page when in dual screen mode.

Since I tend to use the Media Pool as a basic SFX library on the Fairlight page (when not spotting from Basehead to the Timeline), drag-dropping source material from the right hand side of the display to the left (on to the Timeline) seems more natural than drag-dropping from the left to the right. Basehead is always placed on the second display, so the action of drag-dropping from right to left (screen 2 to screen 1) is rather ingrained.

One further option, is to have the Media Pool behave as it does on the Media page when in single screen mode, where it is positioned at the bottom of the display, which would allow source material to be dragged from the bottom up on to the Timeline.

This would naturally also allow more Media Pool columns to be visible without scrolling horizontally back and forth through columns when using many simultaneously.

This option may turn out to provide a more natural motion than placing the Media Pool to the right of the primary display.

track hide/view marker selection could be between the timeline and mixer

That would also work well if positioned to the right on the primary display.

Splitting the Meters and the Control Room panel in to two Panels is my only real issue with the Mixer layout as it stands currently (as I often want to only display the Control Room and not have the Meters section visible, for example, providing more height to the Mixer channels when in "Full Track Mixer" mode).

Ok, here's my main wish (and please be aware I'm far from being alone ), you can see it on my french good old FCP7 screenshot...
I didn't open it for a while now, especially because I'm using 100% Resolve now, and tabbed TL would be highly appreciated.

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Requests to randomly place anything anywhere are not going to help

I'm curious, why not? It's what Adobe offers. It what we want. It is perhaps a long term design goal, but...a very helpful one, I believe.

Peter Chamberlain wrote:requests are for layout flexibility so what are those layouts?

Anything the editor desires. What we're asking for is total customization. You just can't account for all the possible options and make those available. The only way to do this is to make the GUI fully customizable in the same manner as Adobe software.

+1 dual timelines

I was always a user of this in FCP7
foe me it was always a great way to cutdown from a long rough cuts

also
screen arrangements
I like to cut with lots of screen space for media thumbnails
so I prefer three screens for editing
one just media
one timeline and viewers
and the last for scopes, informations, plugins, settings, nodes etc etc

I did see the preview of the fairlight control application at NAB in NYC
that was great and the right idea
a whole app and screen devoted to audio controls...
I liked that
please make that available with out having to purchase the control surface

wh

PeterMoretti wrote:Slaven,

Out of genuine curiosity, what do you use the dual timelines for? I've never edited that way, but I'm open understanding under what circumstances that it's useful. Thanks so much!

Hi Peter, it's rather for bigger project, but it's not necessary. That way of editing makes me much faster and more productive.
To speed up the project, for example, if you edit some wedding feature film parallel to highlight trailer or commercial short film plus longer corporate version in the same time. In that way you can cut everything on one timeline, then immediately drag and drop to other timeline or timelines, because in Premiere there are timeline tabs, so I'm working with few timelines, but only two are open simultaneously, like you can see from my screenshot.
So I have many cuts prepared on a different timelines, thematically arranged, like "aerials cuts", "car driving scenes", "B-roll" etc. Some of them are going to corporate film, others are intended for a trailer. Also if you noticed, I don't use source monitor at all, only timeline monitor, and full screen preview on the 3rd display, so I cut everything on the timeline. Hope that helps.

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Lets assume for a moment you can define some panel layouts in Resolve, using the existing panels, but you can't stack them on top of each other. Please let me know where you place them to suit your different operational requirements and ill look at it further. Requests to randomly place anything anywhere are not going to help but defined workflow and use case for different layouts can help.

Peter, I'm sending 3 screenshot of my panels in Premiere so maybe you can get some idea. Like many editors I'm working with 3 displays so there's lots of space for adjusting the panels. If they must be fixed it would be great if we could get ability to edit with parallel timelines (pancake editing) and timeline tabs. Maybe this could help for a future idea.
It would be more than great if Resolve would provide us with that kind of option or at least similar. It's more advanced editing.
Everything in Resolve 14 is amazing, but lacking panel flexibility to edit with dual timelines and timelines tabs which are the only thing that holds many of us for complete switch to Resolve. If Blackmagic is to provide that, I think Premiere would be past tense for most of editors because Adobe forum is full of dissatisfied users these days. Also it's great that you guys are listening your customers.

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Timeline pancake aside.. requests are for layout flexibility so what are those layouts?

Just give us the layout flexibility that FCP7 offers/offered. Bins, two viewers, multiple timelines in form of tabs (which can be closed or opened as per requirement), adjustable size and placement of all of them.

Ideally a cinema view on the second monitor.

Resolve will be all set to replace FCP everywhere.

In fact, you can even think of a standalone edit suite which links directly to Resolve.

Sam Steti wrote:Ok, here's my main wish (and please be aware I'm far from being alone ), you can see it on my french good old FCP7 screenshot...
I didn't open it for a while now, especially because I'm using 100% Resolve now, and tabbed TL would be highly appreciated.

+1

Peter Chamberlain wrote:...
Thanks for feedback. I think top left to bottom right so media pool would be left of left hand side monitor as its the source, track hide/view marker selection could be between the timeline and mixer. .. good to get more feedback from others too.

The ability in Dual Screen Layout to set the timeline to go horizontally across both screens would be very helpful. That would double the timeline length we can show at any one time.

I think Premiere would be past tense for most of editors because Adobe forum is full of dissatisfied users these days. Also it's great that you guys are listening your customers.

I totally agree. I'm using Adobe Premiere for nearly 20 years and I'm really sick of bugs. Every new version have even more than previous. I must admit that Adobe Premiere is a great tool, but with such lack of understanding of user's needs and absolute ignorance for the money we spend on it made me DaVinci Resolve user.
Also, in Resolve, I like the most, absence of "cloud" sh..t, monthly subscribing without option to just buy some software and have it anywhere you go. What can I do with "cloud" if I'm going to Afika to shoot a safari for 5 months? Pay monthly subscription with bush berries sent by the elephant to Adobe's office?
One more thing that I like here is that guys like Peter Chamberlain are really talking to us and willing to listen to us and improve their software in the way that people who use it, really need it. Thank you Peter!
And finally, the thing that I miss the most in Resolve is lack of free positioning of panels (making my own workspace as I need it and like it) and absence of dual, or even beter, tabbed timelines.
Peter, please talk to your team and give us what we really need.
Thanks!

Exactly, you mentioned right examples.
So Peter Chamberlain, is there any update for this topic, will we get ability to use custom panel positioning, tabbed timelines and pancake editing in future update, so we can finally forget about Premiere?

Peter, I'd like to informally request a UI combo that would be a lifesaver for me. Having Nodes be able to undock and go onto a second monitor above Scopes, where Stills window currently sits. It would be nice to have the option to switch between Keyframe window, and nodes window - in that middle section of the 2nd monitor. Thanks.

I find that having multiple timeline in nested timeline in multicam + Gang viewer: there is enough to lose a lot of things en route.

I want to understand that those who come from another environment seek to find what they have known but be careful not to be too happy VS simplicity and efficiency ...

Moreover, nothing prevents to activate the gang view ...
(you do what you want )

Jean Claude wrote:I find that having multiple timeline in nested timeline in multicam + Gang viewer: there is enough to lose a lot of things en route.

I want to understand that those who come from another environment seek to find what they have known but be careful not to be too happy VS simplicity and efficiency ...

Moreover, nothing prevents to activate the gang view ...
(you do what you want )

I totally agree with you, but most of editors who are slowly switching to Resolve are coming from Adobe, which was standard for NLE for so many years. We are not coming from Windows movie maker and we do not request something that have no practical use, but asking something that is almost the standard when people are seriously doing this things. Maybe you missunderstood our suggestions. We do not want to make Resolve a Premiere, but we are trying to point to the best things from Premiere so engineers from Blackmagic can somehow incorporate them into Resolve. Resolve is already a great tool (the best indicator is that so many people slowly switching from another NLEs to Resolve) and we are asking for things that can speed up our work and things that can make it even better.

And finally it is here! One big BRAVO! for the Blackmagic team! Thank you!

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Timeline pancake aside.. requests are for layout flexibility so what are those layouts?

With the caveat that I haven't checked Resolve 15 to see if any of these things have already been implemented:

1. I use an iMac Pro with an external Thunderbolt Display and I'd like to be able to see the timeline in one display and full-screen playback in the other (I can sort of do this with the Color page and Full Screen Viewer, minus the timeline). In dual-screen mode fullscreen playback is only possible in the Edit page on the Thunderbolt (outboard) display, but I'd much rather see it on the better built-in Retina display. Or another way of getting a similar result, I'd like "Single Viewer Mode" to be an option when using two displays. It's grayed out in dual display mode.

2. In order to maximize both timeline space and viewer space/quality while editing I often use "Full Screen Timeline" but have it set so the timeline is on my outboard display and the viewers are on my built-in Retina display. But when I switch from the Edit page to the Color page, it puts the viewer on the same display as the timeline (ie, the outboard), which means the viewer jumps from one display to the other, or my Retina to my Thunderbolt. I'd like to be able to toggle back and forth between Color and Edit and have the viewer stay put on the Retina display. Instead I have to switch my "Primary Display" setting every time I switch between Color and Edit. Same thing happens when turning "Full Screen Timeline" on and off, the viewers jump displays. I'd really like to be able to "pin" them to the Retina display regardless of any other settings.

3. I'd really like it if when trimming instead of seeing the A-side and B-side of the trim point in the record/timeline viewer at half the usual size, the trim mode took over the entire viewer area:

normal layout is: SV | RV
current trim mode is: SV | A:B
preferred layout is: A | B

4. I'd like to be able to move individual panels around - for instance, when I'm in "Full Screen Timeline" mode, I'd rather have the Metadata panel on the timeline screen and not the viewer screen. Similarly, when I'm on the Color page it would be nice to have the option to open the "Timeline" panel on the same screen as the "Keyframes" panel, instead of always taking up valuable real estate under the viewer.

5. I agree with the dual "pancake" timeline request.

Charles Lyons wrote:Or another way of getting a similar result, I'd like "Single Viewer Mode" to be an option when using two displays. It's grayed out in dual display mode.

Charles Lyons wrote:5. I agree with the dual "pancake" timeline request.

Looks like both of these are in Resolve 15 - thank you!

Jim Simon wrote:I do think that's what needs to happen here. Premiere Pro is the GUI model all NLEs should be using. There's none better.

errrrr... for your workflow and uses, this is not a declaration of a universal thought

i liked Smoke circia 2001 myself, that was my favorite UI of all time, i find the Pp interface clunky, cluttered and messy...

Dermot Shane wrote:

Jim Simon wrote:I do think that's what needs to happen here. Premiere Pro is the GUI model all NLEs should be using. There's none better.

errrrr... for your workflow and uses, this is not a declaration of a universal thought

i liked Smoke circia 2001 myself, that was my favorite UI of all time, i find the Pp interface clunky, cluttered and messy...

One of the reasons that I switched to editing in Lightworks and Resolve is that I find the Premiere UI to be clunky and not very user friendly or efficient.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Same here.

I started this thread few months ago and now created short vlog/toturial for thanks to Blackmagic staff because they listened our suggestions about this features to be incorporated in this latest:

OMG, I love this!

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Timeline pancake aside.. requests are for layout flexibility so what are those layouts?

Peter, I came across this tread trying to find a way to use dual timelines, OR a way to quickly switch between two or more.
My preferred workflow with projects that have lots of montages is to make a timeline with all the best montage clips, about 10% of the GV footage remains, and I just need to grab the best bits, copy and paste to the required places in the main edit.

Either the pancake with two sequences, OR Tabbed sequences with keyboard commands to toggle between two or more open sequences.

That would make this mode of editing a lot more efficient. At the moment it is very clumsy to noodle with the mouse to the dinky pull down to keep flipping between two timelines. Also putting a 10 minute sequence of 5 second clips into the source viewer is far from ideal, almost impossible to scrub through clips, and down arrow up arrow does not go to the next clip but to the start and end of the timeline in the source viewer...

Thanks,
Mark.

Command page up toggles source and timeline viewer to the timeline

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Command page up toggles source and timeline viewer to the timeline

EDITED

Hi Peter,

I see that "Swap Timeline and Source Viewer" is a menu item, and it now works. (probably user error first time I tried and it did not work, though I had chosen a Premiere style set of keyboard shortcuts, so this one was not mapped!)

SUGGESTION - that unique commands like this remain in all custom keyboard presets unless there is a definite replacement. IE, it should not be UNMAPPED just because I chose to have a PP style keyboard layout, PP does not have the same command.

Thanks,
Mark.

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Command page up toggles source and timeline viewer to the timeline

Peter, when you toggle source and timeline viewer, the timeline is not active! So if you are in one timeline, you copy some elements, then toggle to the other timeline, you cannot just CTRL-V to paste, you have to first click or use a command to make that timeline active. This is a redundant step, it obviously should be active when you flip to it. That would be a useful minor fix... pretty please?

Thanks,
Mark.