How do I mix for a 5.1 output and a Stereo output?

How can I do my mix in Fairlight so that when finished, I can easily render out a 5.1 version or a stereo version? Im about to start my mixing and dont want to start on the wrong foot.

Here is my current approach, which I have no idea if its the best way or not:

Im testing the process with a small 30 second portion of my sequence. Currently I have 25 audio tracks. My idea is to set all tracks to 5.1. Change clips attributes as necessary to make them 5.1 (with dialogue only on center channel, music on surround speakers and LFE, etc).

Then, from all my audio tracks create STEREO submixes (Dialogue, SFX, Foley, Music, etc)
Then, create a second set of submixes that are 5.1 (Dialogue, SFX, Foley, Music, etc)

So now I have two sets of submixes, one stereo, one 5.1

Then I would have two MAIN outputs.
1 MAIN STEREO output (that is derived from the stereo submixes)
1 MAIN 5.1 Output (that is derived from the 5.1 submixes)

This would allow me when finished with my 5.1 mix, to easily output a 5.1 mix or a stereo mix without having to actually re-mix anything.

ISSUES IM RUNNING INTO:

1. For some reason, my Dialogue is 3db hotter on my 5.1 submix than it is on my stereo submix. No VST effects or EQ or dynamics or anything like that to account for the difference. Im not sure why that is happening.

2. I am new to Fairlight and have absolutely no idea what Im doing. So Im just taking a stab in the dark, assuming this is how this should be done. So I have no idea if Im on the right track or if Im way off and doing it this way will create more problems down the road.

I've spent some time combing over the Manual and have contacted BMD and waiting to hear back. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

One alternative method Im trying is creating a submix for Front Left, a submix for center, a submix for front Right, etc. And then Patching the front left submix to the MAIN 5.1 (front left) channel. And patching the center submix to the 5.1 MAIN center channel, etc. This would work too, however, my patches are not working. I patch the center submix to the center 5.1 MAIN output and I dont get any idea to the MAIN 5.1 “Film” output. So not sure why thats not working either. If I could get these patches to work, that might be a solution for me as well.

I am probably not patching correctly?

My idea is to set all tracks to 5.1. Change clips attributes as necessary to make them 5.1

Using the Panner is the more sensible approach.

Then, from all my audio tracks create STEREO submixes (Dialogue, SFX, Foley, Music, etc)
Then, create a second set of submixes that are 5.1 (Dialogue, SFX, Foley, Music, etc)

Multiple methods to achieve the same result, depending on the delivery spec, available time, and how much control over the stems you require.

This is just off the top of my head. Obviously you aren’t limited to only these four approaches, especially if you also require M&E, and alternate stems.

————

The first method is to create a single 5.1 Main Mix Buss along with a single Stereo Main Mix Buss.

Then create two sets of 5.1 Submix Busses for your various stems
(which you can then print in a single pass)
(all Tracks feed both sets of Submix Busses and are panned as required)
5.1 Dialogue Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 SFX Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 Foley Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 Music Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss

5.1 Dialogue Submix Buss (Reduce enabled in the Bus Format window) > Stereo Main Mix Buss
5.1 SFX Submix Buss (Reduce enabled in the Bus Format window) > Stereo Main Mix Buss
5.1 Foley Submix Buss (Reduce enabled in the Bus Format window) > Stereo Main Mix Buss
5.1 Music Submix Buss (Reduce enabled in the Bus Format window) > Stereo Main Mix Buss

This approach allows you to process the two sets of Submix Busses slightly differently if required and create more tailored Main Mixes.

————

Alternatively, if you require more control over the downmix process, insert Halo Downmix on your second set of “Downmix” Sub Busses instead of using the Reduce function, which then feed your Stereo Main Mix Buss: https://www.nugenaudio.com/halo-downmix ... -au-vst_61

You can then tailor the Downmix for each stem as required within each instance of the plugin.

————

The third (and more streamlined) approach, is to only create a single set of 5.1 Stem Submix Busses which feed a single 5.1 Main Mix Buss. Obviously, do not enable Reduce on your Stem Busses.

As before:
5.1 Dialogue Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 SFX Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 Foley Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 Music Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss

Create a single 5.1 Timeline Track (rename it “Downmix”) and patch the output of the 5.1 Main Mix Buss to the input of the 5.1 Downmix Track in the Input/Output window.

Insert Halo Downmix as a plugin insert on the 5.1 Downmix Track in the Mixer.
Downmix Track > Stereo Main Mix Buss.

Record enable the Downmix Track and Print the output of your Main Mix Buss to the Downmix Track.

You can use this approach to also print your Stems simultaneously and create stereo Downmix stems.

————

A variation on the third approach, is to create a manual Downmix, where instead of a single 5.1 Track, create 5 mono tracks.

Track 1: L
Track 2: R
Track 3: C
Track 4: LS
Track 5: RS

Then manually follow the ITU standard for the LoRo mix:
Lo [Left + Centre (-3dB), + LS (–3dB)]
Ro [(Right + Centre (–3dB) + RS (–3dB)]

The LFE is obviously discarded.

————

Depending on the distributor, they will often discard the provided Stereo downmixes and create their own from the 5.1 Delivery anyway.

My idea is to set all tracks to 5.1. Change clips attributes as necessary to make them 5.1

Using the Panner is the more sensible approach.

Then, from all my audio tracks create STEREO submixes (Dialogue, SFX, Foley, Music, etc)
Then, create a second set of submixes that are 5.1 (Dialogue, SFX, Foley, Music, etc)

Multiple methods to achieve the same result, depending on the delivery spec, available time, and how much control over the stems you require.

This is just off the top of my head. Obviously you aren’t limited to only these four approaches, especially if you also require M&E, and alternate stems.

————

The first method is to create a single 5.1 Main Mix Buss along with a single Stereo Main Mix Buss.

Then create two sets of 5.1 Submix Busses for your various stems
(which you can then print in a single pass)
(all Tracks feed both sets of Submix Busses and are panned as required)
5.1 Dialogue Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 SFX Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 Foley Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 Music Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss

5.1 Dialogue Submix Buss (Reduce enabled in the Bus Format window) > Stereo Main Mix Buss
5.1 SFX Submix Buss (Reduce enabled in the Bus Format window) > Stereo Main Mix Buss
5.1 Foley Submix Buss (Reduce enabled in the Bus Format window) > Stereo Main Mix Buss
5.1 Music Submix Buss (Reduce enabled in the Bus Format window) > Stereo Main Mix Buss

This approach allows you to process the two sets of Submix Busses slightly differently if required and create more tailored Main Mixes.

————

Alternatively, if you require more control over the downmix process, insert Halo Downmix on your second set of “Downmix” Sub Busses instead of using the Reduce function, which then feed your Stereo Main Mix Buss: https://www.nugenaudio.com/halo-downmix ... -au-vst_61

You can then tailor the Downmix for each stem as required within each instance of the plugin.

————

The third (and more streamlined) approach, is to only create a single set of 5.1 Stem Submix Busses which feed a single 5.1 Main Mix Buss. Obviously, do not enable Reduce on your Stem Busses.

As before:
5.1 Dialogue Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 SFX Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 Foley Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss
5.1 Music Submix Buss > 5.1 Main Mix Buss

Create a single 5.1 Timeline Track (rename it “Downmix”) and patch the output of the 5.1 Main Mix Buss to the input of the 5.1 Downmix Track in the Input/Output window.

Insert Halo Downmix as a plugin insert on the 5.1 Downmix Track in the Mixer.
Downmix Track > Stereo Main Mix Buss.

Record enable the Downmix Track and Print the output of your Main Mix Buss to the Downmix Track.

You can use this approach to also print your Stems simultaneously and create stereo Downmix stems.

————

A variation on the third approach, is to create a manual Downmix, where instead of a single 5.1 Track, create 5 mono tracks.

Track 1: L
Track 2: R
Track 3: C
Track 4: LS
Track 5: RS

Then manually follow the ITU standard for the LoRo mix:
Lo [Left + Centre (-3dB), + LS (–3dB)]
Ro [(Right + Centre (–3dB) + RS (–3dB)]

The LFE is obviously discarded.

————

Depending on the distributor, they will often discard the provided Stereo downmixes and create their own from the 5.1 Delivery anyway.

Thank you! Thanks for taking the time to type that out. This is very helpful! One question -- what does the "reduce" function do exactly? I checked the manual but didnt see it explained.

One question -- what does the "reduce" function do exactly?

No idea what the coefficients used are. Best guess is ITU spec.

+1

A variation on the third approach, is to create a manual Downmix, where instead of a single 5.1 Track, create 5 mono tracks.

Track 1: L
Track 2: R
Track 3: C
Track 4: LS
Track 5: RS

Then manually follow the ITU standard for the LoRo mix:
Lo [Left + Centre (-3dB), + LS (–3dB)]
Ro [(Right + Centre (–3dB) + RS (–3dB)]

The LFE is obviously discarded.

Reynaud, as I have no needs for encoding multiple stems etc., I'm trying to use this last approach of the several methods you mentioned. A single LRCSS mix is all I need - however, I'm still unsuccessfully trying to make the mix fully "panable"... Unfortunately, the behavior of Panning is unsatisfactory, to say the least. I would like to be able to move a given channel (like e.g. the Left Front) to the Left Front speaker only, etc. - this is simply impossible with this simplest of mixing methods...

What do you think am I missing? Oh, and could you elaborate on the last part of the quoted fragment (about manually LoRo mixing) - I have no idea what it is Thanks in advance,

Piotr

could you elaborate on the last part of the quoted fragment (about manually LoRo mixing)

LoRo is the abbreviation of Left only/Right only, where a downmix (or a combining of channels) is created to reproduce, say, a 5.1 fixed channel speaker configuration over two speakers or headphones.

As outlined above:
(1) The Lo (Left only) output is created by adding the Left channel, with the Centre channel (at –3dB), and the Left Surround channel (also at –3dB).

(2) The Ro (Right only) output is created by adding the Right channel, with the Centre channel (at –3dB), and the Right Surround channel (also at –3dB).

The LFE channel is discarded to create the LoRo mix, and so is not included in the LoRo output.

Realizing this is a rather old topic there are still questions unanswered that I also have.

Namely, if you route a 5.1 mix to a Stereo buss in Fairlight... what does it do? Is it safe to assume that it's applying the Lo/Ro per ITU standards?

If not, that forces us to split an incoming surround file into individual channels then manually do the re-assignment back to surround tracks and the Lo/Ro fold-down calculus, or am I missing something?

Thanks,

if you route a 5.1 mix to a Stereo buss in Fairlight... what does it do? Is it safe to assume that it's applying the Lo/Ro per ITU standards?

Fairlight Reduction Busses in Fixed mode follow the ITU standard for the LoRo fold-down.

In Flexi Bussing mode, routing Busses with a wider channel configuration to Busses with a narrower channel configuration will behave like Reduce Busses.