Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

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Paulo Barata

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Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostSun Jan 07, 2018 12:20 am

I am a newcomer to DaVinci Resolve 14 (DVR14), in fact a newcomer to video editing. When I try to include a basic title in a video, just plain text over a one-colour background, in the final result, in the rendered video, the text characters always have the borders slightly fuzzy, I never get a text with sharp, clear borders. In the edit window, the text looks sharp, but it is not so in the final rendered version.

I have tried several ways of producing a title: (1) the titles in the Effects Library of DVR14, (2) including in my video a JPG image with the title text, generated by Corel Draw at a large size and high resolution, (3) producing a short MP4 video with just the title in a photo-story (slide-show) software, and then including the short MP4 video in my main video in DVR14. For the final MP4 main video, I have tried resolutions of 1280X720 and 1920x1080, at 29.97 fps, always adjusting beforehand the resolutions in the Project Settings in DVR14. Anyway, the title text in the final rendered videos is always somewhat fuzzy.

In an Internet search, I have read about aliasing as a possible cause of this issue, something that I do not fully understand. In DVR14 Project Settings / Image Scaling, I have tried the Anti-alias Edges setting in either "on" or "off", but this does not seem to make a difference in the final result.

In this Forum, there is a long thread called "Graphics and Text Scaling & Aliasing", started on 03 August 2017, about this topic, but I cannot find there an answer for my issue.

To produce a clear and sharp simple title for a video seems to me to be a very basic task for any video editing software. Would someone kindly point me to a way of producing a clear basic plain-text/one-colour background title in DVR14?

My thanks to Blackmagic Design for providing a version of DVR14 free of charge.

My computer setup:

DaVinci Resolve 14 version 14.2.0.012 (the free edition)
Windows 10 Professional 64-bit with all the latest updates
Intel Xeon E3-1231 v3 4-core 3.40GHz with 32 GB of RAM memory
NVIDIA Quadro K620
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Hector Berrebi

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostSun Jan 07, 2018 12:16 pm

Paulo Barata wrote:To produce a clear and sharp simple title for a video seems to me to be a very basic task for any video editing software. Would someone kindly point me to a way of producing a clear basic plain-text/one-colour background title in DVR14?



Hi Paulo

Since you didn't upload a picture with your post, its hard to figure out your definition of "fuzzy"

In general, if you export text over color to a 4:2:0 codec such as 264 you will be able to notice some "fuziness" where text and background pixels meet. This is inherent to these exports, usually visible when zooming in, and generally tolerated and not considered "fuzzy". The Resolve viewer does not chroma-sub-sample so you don't see it there even when you zoom.
I get practically the same results exporting the same frame in different programs including Resolve.
If you try exporting to any 444 variant (Prores, Cineform or DNX) you will notice its gone.

Or you are referring to something else which has to do with your system somehow, can you upload an image?

the 2 images below are zoom-ins on h.264 (4:2:0) and Prores444 (4:4:4) exports. is this the fuzziness that bothered you?
export to 264-420.png
export to 264-420.png (355.68 KiB) Viewed 446 times

export to prores-444.png
export to prores-444.png (217.06 KiB) Viewed 446 times
H e c t o r _ B e r r e b i
---------------------------
Colorist ~ Consultant ~ Trainer
Da Vinci Resolve Certified Instructor
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John Paines

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostSun Jan 07, 2018 2:39 pm

Hector Berrebi wrote:I get practically the same results exporting the same frame in different programs including Resolve.


That may be true of larger point sizes, but small point sizes fall apart in Resolve, the aliasing makes it unusable.
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Hector Berrebi

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostSun Jan 07, 2018 3:22 pm

John Paines wrote:That may be true of larger point sizes, but small point sizes fall apart in Resolve, the aliasing makes it unusable.



Hi John

I tried it with 30 (Helvetica Neue)... Which is quite small for HD.

look this split image (zoomed in). Can you tell which is from Resolve and which from Premiere?
Both were exported to h264 with same exact settings. I still mainly see what i'd expect in a 4:2:0 export of graphics.

split.png
split.png (114.5 KiB) Viewed 415 times


30.png
30.png (54.85 KiB) Viewed 415 times
H e c t o r _ B e r r e b i
---------------------------
Colorist ~ Consultant ~ Trainer
Da Vinci Resolve Certified Instructor
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John Paines

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostSun Jan 07, 2018 3:34 pm

I was just doing some more testing, comparing PS titles with Resolve's. And I'm no longer so sure. I may be wrong. Will try to look into it further....
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John Paines

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostSun Jan 07, 2018 6:27 pm

There's a notable difference in ragged edges, between (for example) black text on white and white text on black. It can be even more pronounced with colored text on black (worse). Maybe there's an obvious explanation (for people who understand graphics), but I don't get it. The difference may not be apparent as reproduced below, but it's pretty clear on a video monitor, off the timeline. Black text on white is the best:

black_on_white_1.20.2.jpg
black_on_white_1.20.2.jpg (51.17 KiB) Viewed 394 times


and

white_on_back_1.20.1.jpg
white_on_back_1.20.1.jpg (51.17 KiB) Viewed 394 times


and

red_1.20.1.jpg
red_1.20.1.jpg (56.75 KiB) Viewed 390 times
Last edited by John Paines on Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jean Claude

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostSun Jan 07, 2018 6:37 pm

And exporting a trueType in TIFF: there is a difference?
Concerning fonts and graphics: if it is not in vector, do not overgrow after generation (question)
A specialist ?
Windows 10 PRO X64 | DaVinci Resolve Studio 14.2.0.012 | Fusion Studio 9.0.2 | Decklink 4K Extrem 6G | Desktop Video 10.9.10
(I forgot about W7 Ultimate for over 4 years.) Sorry
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Uli Plank

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostMon Jan 08, 2018 1:13 am

You can't judge edge quality by looking at JPEGs, saturated red on black in particular.
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Paulo Barata

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostWed Jan 10, 2018 1:19 pm

Sorry for my delay. Two images are attached, both were text/titles from mp4 videos rendered in DVR14.2, one at 1280x720, the other at 1920x1080.

test-forum-720.jpg
text at 1280x720 (mp4 video)
test-forum-720.jpg (33.42 KiB) Viewed 252 times


test-forum-1080.jpg
test-forum-1080.jpg (35.82 KiB) Viewed 252 times


Each image shows the whole frame area. In the Text editor of DVR14.2, I have used no drop shadow, no stroke, font Arial size 84, in bold. In the Project Settings / Image Scaling, I have used anti-alias edges ON.

Maybe this is indeed the best quality of text/title I can get?
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Jean Claude

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostWed Jan 10, 2018 6:56 pm

Paulo Barata wrote:Sorry for my delay. Two images are attached, both were text/titles from mp4 videos rendered in DVR14.2, one at 1280x720, the other at 1920x1080.

The attachment test-forum-720.jpg is no longer available


The attachment test-forum-1080.jpg is no longer available


Each image shows the whole frame area. In the Text editor of DVR14.2, I have used no drop shadow, no stroke, font Arial size 84, in bold. In the Project Settings / Image Scaling, I have used anti-alias edges ON.

Maybe this is indeed the best quality of text/title I can get?


Hi,
I also did tests with Helvetica Neue.
I made these screen captures from exporting a UHD project.
Obviously the Tiff is the best but the MP4 or H264 is not that bad.
I would think that this is for many font of character.
(Ok is a jpg...but all at 100%)

Title_compare_uhd.jpg
Title_compare_uhd.jpg (297.68 KiB) Viewed 236 times
Windows 10 PRO X64 | DaVinci Resolve Studio 14.2.0.012 | Fusion Studio 9.0.2 | Decklink 4K Extrem 6G | Desktop Video 10.9.10
(I forgot about W7 Ultimate for over 4 years.) Sorry
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Annaël Beauchemin

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostWed Jan 10, 2018 9:18 pm

John Paines wrote: The difference may not be apparent as reproduced below, but it's pretty clear on a video monitor, off the timeline.


I've found that red titles on black background always appear pixelated on the reference monitor. I've analyzed this on both normal 4:22 HD 10-bit SDI monitor and 12-bit 4:4:4 RGB Christie CP2220 projector. But once you export, it will look clean. So it's an issue with monitoring.

So there is really two issues with titles in Davinci:
1- Saturated titles on black background looks pixalated on reference monitor
2- The title generator doesn't do high quality antialiasing. Certain size/font combinations are worse than others, but basically, the smaller the font, the worse the quality gets.

The title generator quality in Davinci is definately worse than FCP (7 and X) and Premiere.

Did anybody contact BM support about one or both of these issues?
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostWed Jan 10, 2018 10:06 pm

Annaël Beauchemin wrote:2- The title generator doesn't do high quality antialiasing. Certain size/font combinations are worse than others, but basically, the smaller the font, the worse the quality gets.


People complain about this all the time. This issue has existed for several versions, I'm not sure BM is ever going to do anything about it. Sadly, Fusion doesn't seem any better.
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Paulo Barata

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostThu Jan 11, 2018 3:52 pm

I have just sent a message to Blackmagic Design's support, about this issue with the title generator in DaVinci Resolve.

I asked them whether they are aware of this issue, and whether it will be addressed in a forthcoming version of the software.
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Paulo Barata

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostFri Jan 12, 2018 4:31 pm

As I said just before, I contacted Blackmagic Design's support about this issue with titles/texts, and in their reply they said they will forward this thread to their developers, so that the developers can take a look at it.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Titles with fuzzy text in DaVinci Resolve 14.2

PostSat Jan 13, 2018 2:58 am

Paulo Barata wrote:As I said just before, I contacted Blackmagic Design's support about this issue with titles/texts, and in their reply they said they will forward this thread to their developers, so that the developers can take a look at it.


Hopefully they take a hard look at it, because it really does need some attention.

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