Stereo to Mono

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Jim Simon

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Stereo to Mono

PostThu Jan 11, 2018 10:10 pm

Is it possible to center pan each side of a stereo clip (basically playing in mono)?
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostThu Jan 11, 2018 10:32 pm

are you talking about for the entire length of a clip or shifting back and for over time?
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostFri Jan 12, 2018 6:01 am

In the Panner, reduce the Spread control from Full to PNT (Point).
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Jim Simon

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostFri Jan 12, 2018 8:55 pm

The entire clip.

The Panner only seems to be available for the track. I'm looking to do this to just one clip on the track.
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSat Jan 13, 2018 6:00 pm

This is one of many requests, Downmix and M/S processing functionality within Clip Attributes
(functions I use regularly within Reaper).

An alternative approach is to use a plugin on the Clip such as Flux Stereo Tool (free):
https://fluxhome.com/project/stereo-tool-v3/

Other gratis options (which may require signup):
Brainworx bx_solo: https://www.brainworx.audio/products/br ... -solo.html
Maat 2-Bus Control: https://www.maat.digital/2buscontrol/

When working within Resolve, I tend to prepare assets prior to import. Less headaches, but there are many situations where only a single clip requires quick processing, which is where the Clip Attributes processing functionality would prove very useful.
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Jim Simon

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSat Jan 13, 2018 6:33 pm

Thanks, Reynaud.

This can't be done natively? Coming from BMD, I guess this doesn't really surprise me.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSat Jan 13, 2018 11:19 pm

In the media pool before you drop a clip on the timeline right click on it and go to clip attributes. On the Audio tab, change Format to Mono and tracks to two.

Now when you drop the clip on the timeline, the L & R channels will be put on different timeline audio tracks. Make sure the timeline track is set to mono.

Jim Simon wrote:I'm looking to do this to just one clip on the track.

Just put the clip on a new mono track.
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PeterMoretti

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 11:15 am

Jim Simon wrote:...
This can't be done natively?...

You can change the clip attributes or you can put the clip on a mono track. What else do you want?

Jim Simon wrote:...
Coming from BMD, I guess this doesn't really surprise me.

There are certainly things that need to be improved in Resolve, but I don't know how you expect that mindset to be helpful to you or beneficial to the hardworking and probably henpecked feeling people at BMD.

Instead of immediately thinking the worst of BMD, why not first scour the manual and internet for a possible answer. That would give you answers to questions like this one or for things like the track selectors.

I'm glad you're going through the new guide out for 14. And I'm not trying to jump on you. Really I'm not. I'm just sensitive to this because I'm sick of people complaining in my business about things that many times aren't even issues. And it can feel pretty demoralizing to open your email and see complaints that aren't even accurate. It's death by a thousand paper cuts.
Last edited by PeterMoretti on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 11:37 am

PeterMoretti wrote:You can change the clip attributes or you can put the clip on a mono track. What else do you want?
A down-mix of the stereo source seems to be the request here, which is not currently possible within Resolve.

Placing a stereo source on a mono track defaults to assigning the left channel (and muting the right channel), unless the right channel is assigned within Clip Attributes (which then mutes the left channel).
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PeterMoretti

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 11:58 am

Reynaud, while I wrote "mono track" it was shorthand for this, which is using two mono tracks one for each channel:
Dan Sherman wrote:In the media pool before you drop a clip on the timeline right click on it and go to clip attributes. On the Audio tab, change Format to Mono and tracks to two.

Now when you drop the clip on the timeline, the L & R channels will be put on different timeline audio tracks. Make sure the timeline track is set to mono.
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 12:06 pm

PeterMoretti wrote:Reynaud, while I wrote "mono track" it was shorthand for this, which is using two mono tracks one for each channel
Peter, it seems my understanding is lacking.

The procedure outlined by Dan Sherman merely creates two mono tracks in the Timeline.

My understanding of what Jim Simon was requesting was a down-mix of a single stereo source audio clip which would remain on the stereo audio track it currently resides on, but that single stereo source audio clip is now a single mono audio clip (effectively L+R).
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PeterMoretti

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 12:18 pm

No you are not misunderstanding ;). You and Dan have both provided useful suggestions. Albeit that your method requires one new stereo track and Dan's method requires two new mono tracks. For doing it without adding a track, you posted helpful links to some plugins that can do the same without adding tracks.

To me, and maybe I'm wrong, all of those options seemed like pretty good ways to do what the OP asked for. There are more complex situations where better clip based control would be helpful (and on related note losing the clip mixer in 14 has been a bummer for me). But to change one stereo clip to I guess what you would call dual mono, the solutions seemed pretty painless.
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 12:31 pm

PeterMoretti wrote:But to change one stereo clip to I guess what you would call dual mono, the solutions seemed pretty painless.
Perhaps this is the confusion.

Jim Simon, in my reading of his post, was requesting a down-mix (M = L/2 + R/2) and not dual mono.

Here's an example from Reaper.

Clip One is the source Stereo file
Source.png
Source.png (50.28 KiB) Viewed 829 times

Clip Two is the DownMix of the Source Clip.
Downmix.png
Downmix.png (76.22 KiB) Viewed 829 times
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PeterMoretti

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 1:18 pm

Reynaud, you very well may be correct. And maybe this is more complicated than I first thought, which would be my bad. But what is the practical difference between doing a stereo to mono downmix on the clip vs using adding two mono tracks or one stereo track with its Spread set to PNT? Aren't they all going to sound the same?

Now I do realize that moving the audio to one additional stereo or two additional mono tracks might necessitate adding effects and volume changes again to those tracks, which can be a PITA. But is that it, or am I missing something else? Thanks much!
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Jean Claude

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 1:58 pm

Reynaud Venter wrote:This is one of many requests, Downmix and M/S processing functionality within Clip Attributes
(functions I use regularly within Reaper).
An alternative approach is to use a plugin on the Clip such as Flux Stereo Tool (free):
https://fluxhome.com/project/stereo-tool-v3/


Hi,
Thank you for the link. A good plugin.

Maybe it's only on PC: no automation with plugins
It works on Mac?
Thank's
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 2:24 pm

PeterMoretti wrote:what is the practical difference between doing a stereo to mono downmix on the clip vs using adding two mono tracks or one stereo track with its Spread set to PNT?
Center panned dual mono produces an amplitude increase in the resulting signal, which obviously will require manual attenuation.

A stereo source audio clip, with Spread set to PNT will also produce an amplitude increase in the resulting signal (and depending on pan law, there may be less of an amplitude increase than via the centre panned dual mono approach).

A compliant stereo downmix to mono will produce an output signal with an identical amplitude as the source as it usually will automatically include an attenuation of 6dB for each channel.

Aren't they all going to sound the same?
With the correct attenuation applied, the resulting signal should be audibly identical, bar the change in balance.

Now I do realize that moving the audio to one additional stereo or two additional mono tracks might necessitate adding effects and volume changes again to those tracks, which can be a PITA. But is that it, or am I missing something else?
There are, of course, creative as well as workflow reasons for preferring a down-mix to a dual mono render of the source stereo clip.

The ease of manipulation with a mono down-mix, as you have mentioned, is one valid reason.

It is source dependent if I choose Left Only, Right Only, Down-Mix, or reducing the "stereo spread".

Edit: Of course it's a little more complicated when the source is a 24 channel interleaved file that needs to be repurposed as a mono sound effect.

downmix.png
downmix.png (156.22 KiB) Viewed 770 times

(edit: correcting my spelling and use of punctuation)
Last edited by Reynaud Venter on Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 2:35 pm

Jean Claude wrote:Maybe it's only on PC: no automation with plugins
It works on Mac?
Unfortunately, plugin parameter automation is not currently possible at the Clip level.

If the StereoTool plugin, for example, is placed as an insert at the Track level (i.e. on a Mixer channel), parameter automation is possible.
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Jean Claude

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 2:49 pm

Hi,

I will test in the meantime for an upcoming version of full automation plugin (big challenge)
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PeterMoretti

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 3:56 pm

Reynaud, thank you so much for all of your help. And yes I remember running into a pan law issue between Pro Tools 9 and Reaper. I thought one actually sounded "better" than the other, but it wound up being an issue with I believe Reaper defaulting to not attenuating while PT was attenuating by I thought -3dB. (I could be misremembering the exact details.)

Thanks again for all of your help!!
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Jim Simon

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 4:49 pm

Reynaud Venter wrote:My understanding of what Jim Simon was requesting was a down-mix of a single stereo source audio clip which would remain on the stereo audio track it currently resides on, but that single stereo source audio clip is now a single mono audio clip (effectively L+R).


Correct.

A secondary option would be to hear only the Left or Right channel of that stereo clip (but without adding new tracks or modifying the entire clip).
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Jim Simon

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 3:42 pm

So, I eventually found a way to do what was needed here. Peter Moretti suggested it way back, but somehow I missed it.

Right click on the clip, select Clip Attributes, move to the Audio tab, select the same Source Channel for both Left and Right output.
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Vit Reiter

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 11:03 pm

Link stereo track to mono Main output and set Main -3dB lower.
Or is it bad idea, guys?
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Jim Simon

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Re: Stereo to Mono

PostFri Mar 02, 2018 2:32 pm

Vit Reiter wrote:Link stereo track to mono Main output and set Main -3dB lower.


That would affect the entire program. I was looking to affect only one clip here.

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