Multicam editing and audio

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Bazzikaster

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Multicam editing and audio

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 11:19 am

Hello!

Please, help me with following: I have the videos from 2 cameras and additional audio from the Zoom recorder. I created multicam clips and basically want to edit only video and keep audio untouched. I selected appropriate option in multicam view but after the flattering it doesn't keep the audio from zoom recorder as it's not linked to the video files (I guess). I can't get how to keep my all the audio tracks at the same time after the multicam editing. Any ideas? I want to work on audio later, in Nuendo. Export it via AAF or something like that from Resolve to Nuendo and mix there. Thank you!
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Jim Simon

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 6:25 pm

Create your multi-cam using only the camera clips. Add the Zoom clip under the multi-cam clip in the timeline.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 6:28 pm

This must be improved... Thank you
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 1:29 am

Try syncing the camera clip and zoom audio in the media pool for each camera separately, then create your multi cam.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 5:36 am

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Try syncing the camera clip and zoom audio in the media pool for each camera separately, then create your multi cam.


I am sorry, I don't undertstand. You mean somehow link zoom audio to the each clip? Not really convinent. What I need to chieve at the end is something like this
result.JPG
result.JPG (43.63 KiB) Viewed 3209 times
. Not possible in the convinient way now
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 6:29 am

Bazzikaster wrote:This must be improved... Thank you



No, you need to use the right tool.



Bazzikaster wrote:
I am sorry, I don't undertstand. You mean somehow link zoom audio to the each clip? Not really convinent. What I need to chieve at the end is something like this
result.JPG
. Not possible in the convinient way now


That's not how multi cam is designed to work.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 7:29 am

Dan Sherman wrote:
Bazzikaster wrote:This must be improved... Thank you



No, you need to use the right tool.



Bazzikaster wrote:
I am sorry, I don't undertstand. You mean somehow link zoom audio to the each clip? Not really convinent. What I need to chieve at the end is something like this
result.JPG
. Not possible in the convinient way now


That's not how multi cam is designed to work.


Hi! Thanks for reply, but I think you got me wrong. Seems I wasn't clear enough. Imagine you have two takes with the 2 different camera angles and additional audio. I select corresponding media for the forst take and create the multicam clip. Same for the second take. So everything is perfectly in sync. I don't need to sync audio. What I need is cut the video using two multicam clips selecting different angles, cut the audio, but keep all three audio tracks. Do not switch them, do not select only one audio track for the one camera angle as I'm going to do all the audio work in another editor which is better for it.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 7:56 am

Bazzikaster wrote:Hi! Thanks for reply, but I think you got me wrong. Seems I wasn't clear enough. Imagine you have two takes with the 2 different camera angles and additional audio. I select corresponding media for the forst take and create the multicam clip. Same for the second take. So everything is perfectly in sync. I don't need to sync audio. What I need is cut the video using two multicam clips selecting different angles, cut the audio, but keep all three audio tracks. Do not switch them, do not select only one audio track for the one camera angle as I'm going to do all the audio work in another editor which is better for it.


I'm sorry, but you are not getting what Peter and I are telling you.


If you have 3 video clips A, B, & C, and an audio clip D. what you would do, is what the YT video I linked shows. The video shows you how to replace the audio in A, B, & C with the audio in D.

Then you make a multi-cam clip with A, B, & C. Now, no mater how you cut the videos you always end up with the good audio from the external recorder.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 8:00 am

I understand that. But I don't want to replace the audio. I want to keep all the audio because I have the good audio recorded on cameras too. With Shotgun and lavalier mic. I need all of them . How to achieve that?
Last edited by Bazzikaster on Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 8:08 am

Bazzikaster wrote:I understand that. But I don't want to replace the audio. I want to keep all the audio because I have the good audio recorded on cameras two. With Shotgun and lavalier mic. I need all of them . How to achieve that?


Manually is the only way you are going to be able to do that. or maybe with an external third party application.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 8:11 am

Pity. Thanks
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 8:30 am

Bazzikaster wrote:Pity. Thanks


The biggest issue you have is that you're using a very non standard work flow. Recording all audio to the external recorder is a much more standard workflow.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 8:42 am

What if I had two different external recorders? What if this is low budget movie and I try to use every available recording device? I'll check if Premier can do it
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 9:03 am

Bazzikaster wrote:What if I had two different external recorders? What if this is low budget movie and I try to use every available recording device? I'll check if Premier can do it


You need to define low budget, as a lot of people using Resolve would tell you a Zoom H6 or even an F8 is cheap.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 9:12 am

I am not the only one who needs the same functionality. I think if I press edit only video in multicam mode it must edit only video. And again, how would you handle audio from two recorders?
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 4:40 pm

Bazzikaster wrote:I am not the only one who needs the same functionality.


Just because you need it doesn't mean BM will impliment it, Resolve can't be all things to all people.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 4:43 pm

Sure, I know :). I'm Steinberg beta tester and know how it works. But for the sake of argument, Adobe Premiere does what I need perfectly, so I have a hope :)
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 4:56 pm

Bazzikaster wrote: But for the sake of argument, Adobe Premiere does what I need perfectly, so I have a hope :)


Good luck with that, Premiere has a raft of issues. Not to mention the current revenue model!
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 4:58 pm

Thank you
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Jean Claude

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 6:48 pm

@Bazzikaster

You should look on the search website: New Training & Certification Program for DaVinci Resolve
Buy the book and download the clips that go with it (Thanks PeterMorreti)
In the MultiCam study, there are several Video clip but in 'Hat' only one audio clip :)
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 7:55 pm

I am happy that this behavior is not the problem for the majority of users.
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Jim Simon

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 9:45 pm

Dan Sherman wrote:That's not how multi cam is designed to work.


We know. We're saying the design needs to change.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 12:52 am

Jim Simon wrote:
Dan Sherman wrote:That's not how multi cam is designed to work.


We know. We're saying the design needs to change.


Imo, what your/he's describing sounds more like the output of pluraleyes or a similar application, not multi-cam.
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Howard Roll

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 1:14 am

Bazzikaster wrote:I understand that. But I don't want to replace the audio. I want to keep all the audio because I have the good audio recorded on cameras too. With Shotgun and lavalier mic. I need all of them . How to achieve that?


Maybe I'm missing the drama here but you can cut video & audio, or just video, or just audio using the muilticam feature by selecting the correct tool from the multicam window.

Multitool.png
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 4:39 am

That's not a drama, just a workflow issue. I know that. I selected to edit video and after flattering, ended up with one stereo track.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 5:05 am

Dan Sherman wrote:
Jim Simon wrote:
Dan Sherman wrote:That's not how multi cam is designed to work.


We know. We're saying the design needs to change.


Imo, what your/he's describing sounds more like the output of pluraleyes or a similar application, not multi-cam.


No, this would be the output allowing futher work and mixing in DAW. You can't deliver to the sound engineer one stereo track
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Howard Roll

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 8:14 am

Bazzikaster wrote:That's not a drama, just a workflow issue. I know that. I selected to edit video and after flattering, ended up with one stereo track.


Maybe it's a disconnect in terminology but if you don't want the audio flattened (bounced down to 2 tracks) then maybe you shouldn't flatten it? Right click and open in timeline and you'll have all the original audio and you can mix it how you like. Maybe I don't fully understand the request, you want the multicam video bounced down to 1 track and at the same time you want the audio expanded to 6?
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 10:40 am

Howard Roll wrote:
Bazzikaster wrote:That's not a drama, just a workflow issue. I know that. I selected to edit video and after flattering, ended up with one stereo track.


Maybe it's a disconnect in terminology but if you don't want the audio flattened (bounced down to 2 tracks) then maybe you shouldn't flatten it? Right click and open in timeline and you'll have all the original audio and you can mix it how you like. Maybe I don't fully understand the request, you want the multicam video bounced down to 1 track and at the same time you want the audio expanded to 6?


Resolve doesn't have the same level tools for working with audio as a DAW, so I want later to export audio by AAF. If I leave it in multicam clip it won't export as multichannel audio. Am I right? I would be happy if it could be unfolded same as compound clip back onto timeline, but it can't.
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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 7:53 pm

Bazzikaster wrote:What if I had two different external recorders? What if this is low budget movie and I try to use every available recording device? I'll check if Premier can do it



Aha! There's your problem right there. No two audio devices are ever going to be perfectly in sync unless they are both synced to a master clock at the time of recording. That is because even if they are both set to the same bit depth and sample rate, there are subtle differences in their internal clocks. Commercial recording studios using multiple audio interfaces for projects with large track counts have them all synced to a master word clock.

No software in the world that I know of can do that. The only way it would be possible is with a whole lot of very laborious manual editing, and even then you would likely get mixed results.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 8:17 pm

I know that and problem you described is not related to small scenes. This deference becomes obvious on long time recordings. Again, what I want is implemented in a way I need in Premiere and I am not the one who need it. Let's not discuss workflows here. I have found solution for now, it's enough for me. As for the audio, I am professional audio engineer since 2001 so I know how it works.

Thanks everyone for the help here, really
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Nathan Morgan

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 8:26 pm

I am really surprised there is not more support here for Bazzikaster. I totally get wanting to stick up for Resolve, but I haven't met anyone that has been able to use Resolve in a professional setting for Multicam editing because of the way that it handles audio.

Resolves Multicam is severely broken when it comes to any workflow other than a music video (which is why you will notice a lot of the tutorials center around) or a single subject interview (with clean audio).

Not being able to integrate audio from multiple sources is a problem. Not being able to edit individual audio channels without flattening the clip or stepping into the Multicam is a problem. Not being able to see source timecodes is a problem.

These are all common professional scenarios that Resolve cannot current excel at. I love Resolve and use it almost every day but at a certain point, we as a community need to step up and say yeah that part of the program is broken and ask Blackmagic to fix it rather than telling users that the program doesn't work because their workflow isn't professional enough.
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Nathan Morgan

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 8:30 pm

Bazzikaster wrote:That's not a drama, just a workflow issue. I know that. I selected to edit video and after flattering, ended up with one stereo track.


FYI the flatten will take on the properties of the track it is in regardless of the number of tracks that are in the source (this seems like a bug but I can also understand why it functions this way).

If you want to see all of your tracks after a flatten change your track type to adaptive and select the number of tracks in your source. I believe this will then function as intended.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 8:40 pm

Nathan Morgan wrote:
Bazzikaster wrote:That's not a drama, just a workflow issue. I know that. I selected to edit video and after flattering, ended up with one stereo track.


FYI the flatten will take on the properties of the track it is in regardless of the number of tracks that are in the source (this seems like a bug but I can also understand why it functions this way).

If you want to see all of your tracks after a flatten change your track type to adaptive and select the number of tracks in your source. I believe this will then function as intended.


I'll check it out, thanks
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSun Feb 25, 2018 1:19 pm

Nathan Morgan wrote:
Bazzikaster wrote:That's not a drama, just a workflow issue. I know that. I selected to edit video and after flattering, ended up with one stereo track.


FYI the flatten will take on the properties of the track it is in regardless of the number of tracks that are in the source (this seems like a bug but I can also understand why it functions this way).

If you want to see all of your tracks after a flatten change your track type to adaptive and select the number of tracks in your source. I believe this will then function as intended.


Unfortuantely, it didn't help. Still one track only
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Nathan Morgan

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSun Feb 25, 2018 2:31 pm

Bazzikaster wrote:
Nathan Morgan wrote:
Bazzikaster wrote:That's not a drama, just a workflow issue. I know that. I selected to edit video and after flattering, ended up with one stereo track.


FYI the flatten will take on the properties of the track it is in regardless of the number of tracks that are in the source (this seems like a bug but I can also understand why it functions this way).

If you want to see all of your tracks after a flatten change your track type to adaptive and select the number of tracks in your source. I believe this will then function as intended.


Unfortuantely, it didn't help. Still one track only
It should be only 1 track, but the track is adaptive so when you switch to the fairlight page you see all of your channels broken out. Is that not the case?

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Marc Salvatore

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSun Feb 25, 2018 7:03 pm

+1 on improving the Resolve Multicam. Coming from Magix Vegas the Resolve multicam/audio is very limited and can be frustrating. With that said, the reason I'm transitioning to Resolve is because Blackmagic is improving the program at an amazing pace and I like the company. Looking forward to seeing what they announce at NAB this year.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 10:29 am

Nathan Morgan wrote:
FYI the flatten will take on the properties of the track it is in regardless of the number of tracks that are in the source (this seems like a bug but I can also understand why it functions this way).

If you want to see all of your tracks after a flatten change your track type to adaptive and select the number of tracks in your source. I believe this will then function as intended.


Unfortuantely, it didn't help. Still one track only[/quote]It should be only 1 track, but the track is adaptive so when you switch to the fairlight page you see all of your channels broken out. Is that not the case?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk[/quote]\

It creates multichannel track with stereo clip inside...
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 5:25 pm

Bazzikaster wrote:
It creates multichannel track with stereo clip inside...


Did you change the original source to dual mono when you imported it? if not it's going to treat them as stereo, because that's the default.
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Bazzikaster

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 5:32 pm

Dan Sherman wrote:
Bazzikaster wrote:
It creates multichannel track with stereo clip inside...


Did you change the original source to dual mono when you imported it? if not it's going to treat them as stereo, because that's the default.


I'll check this one too, thank you
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Jim Simon

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Mar 02, 2018 2:39 pm

Byron Dickens wrote:No two audio devices are ever going to be perfectly in sync unless they are both synced to a master clock at the time of recording.


Both my Zoom H4n and Roland R-05 do stay perfectly in sync with my Pocket over a full hour's recording.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostFri Mar 02, 2018 5:30 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
Byron Dickens wrote:No two audio devices are ever going to be perfectly in sync unless they are both synced to a master clock at the time of recording.


Both my Zoom H4n and Roland R-05 do stay perfectly in sync with my Pocket over a full hour's recording.


Over an hour maybe, but across several hours they will start to drift. If you start and stop the recorders between takes this will usually accelerate the issue.
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Byron Dickens

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostSun Mar 04, 2018 12:20 am

Jim Simon wrote:
Byron Dickens wrote:No two audio devices are ever going to be perfectly in sync unless they are both synced to a master clock at the time of recording.


Both my Zoom H4n and Roland R-05 do stay perfectly in sync with my Pocket over a full hour's recording.


With each other?
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Sam Steti

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Re: Multicam editing and audio

PostTue Mar 06, 2018 1:05 pm

Hey Bazzikaster,

I've been regularly making multicams for years and perfectly understand your problem, as I "force" myself to make everything (edit) on Resolve, even when it's not eased by design... like multicam. What I can say here in the beginning is that the WF includes manual stuff as one of the first comment suggested, so if you need everything to be automated, you can stop reading here...

So fyi, my workflow includes Plural Eyes which syncs everything (any video and audio tracks) before, exports xml which is imported in Resolve. Then you have stacked video and audio tracks which is a point you may have come to by another way tahn plural eyes.

Now, as I also like to keep spared audio tracks on the TL, what I do is that I make a default multicam file in Resolve (my WF is to use markers) > I duplicate the stacked tracks TL > I put the multicam file on top of all and wipe the other video files only (since I have them yet in the multifile).
So I have the multicam AND the extra audio files on the TL.
I've sometimes open the multicam file and inserted the extra audio inside before closing it again with random success, so audio tracks out of it is enough for me

Hope it was clear enough :)
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