Multicam with multiple files per camera

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mleonard

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Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostSat Apr 07, 2018 4:42 pm

Hi everyone,

Sorry if this is addressed somewhere but I can't seem to find the answer and I'm not getting anywhere on my own.

I'm shooting in a situation where we have 5 cameras, all recording the duration of an interview. Each camera generates multiple files, and in the cases of some (our DSLRs) there are brief time gaps between the files.

When I create a multicam track it does a great job of syncing the the first file of each camera, but the following files for each camera do not follow in sequence. Resolve tries to make sense of them as if they are additional cameras all starting at the same moment.

Is there a way around this? It seems that there should be a simple answer yet it is illuding me.

Thanks for the help.
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mleonard

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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostThu Apr 12, 2018 7:39 pm

Any thoughts on this??
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostFri Apr 13, 2018 12:58 am

on v14 there is a way to let resolve automatically append files from the same camera, even if there is a recording break.

You don't mention which version you are on, or OS etc etc, so I'm assuming you are not using the v14 multicam dialog to set this up.

There are details in the manual on this feature.
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mleonard

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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostFri Apr 13, 2018 5:59 pm

Sorry for leaving that bit out.

Yes, I'm using v14 on Win 10. It would appear that I missed that segment in the manual. I'll go back there.

Thanks
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostTue Apr 17, 2018 7:26 pm

So, I've been tinkering more and just can't get this to work. I'm following everything to the "T" (I believe), but I still don't get a multicam track with everything in it. I found a tutorial where it was suggested that updating the meta with angel names was a good idea. I'm running 5 cameras, so I have "font" "host" "host-tight" "host-wide" "guest-tight" and "guest-wide". Each camera has multiple files, and sometimes there are gaps. So once all the clips meta is updated with the angle names, "detect clips from same camera" is checked and I have it use the "Metadata-Angle" (I attached a screen grab)

The result was not even close.

I did notice this last time that while processing the multicam track the dialogue box stated that resolve appeared to only identify 7 clips. In this case I believe I have 34 in total between the 5 cameras.

I'm still working on this, but any tips would be greatly appreciated. If I can get this functioning reliably, I'd love to move all of our work over to Resolve.
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mleonard

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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 8:23 pm

No love here??

Does anyone know if there is any kind of log file that Resolve generates where what is actually records what is/isn't happening? I'm wondering why Resolve is identifying so few clips.

Next time I sit down and try again I'll make a screen capture of what I'm doing. Hopefully someone can spot an error in my process that I'm missing.

I'd love to have this working.
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 10:58 pm

Focus on one camera first to prove the config.
Does every recording from that camera have the same angle name in each clips metadata 'angle' field?
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mleonard

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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 4:39 pm

Good suggestion. Here is what happened.

First off I labeled one camera of footage as "FRONT" and copied/pasted that angle name into all 3 files. It pieced them together just fine. This camera is a prosumer video camera, so there are no breaks between the files. It assembled it no problem.

Second pass I added only one additional camera of footage. This was from another posumer video cam and there are no time breaks between the files. This one got labeled with the angle "GUEST1". Same deal, copy/paste so no typos. The result was only one of the 8 files was used (the last on in the sequence) files are named 0000.MTS - 0007.MTS, only file 0007.MTS was used and it was entirely in the wrong place.

The unused files were not moved to the "Original Clips" bin, if that is at all helpful, and yes I did select all the files. I actually repeated this one twice to be certain and got an identical result both times (including incorrect placement of the one file.)

Third pass, I added one of our DSLR sources. There are time gaps between these files, but they are minimal (1-3sec) Again cut/paste the angle name into the meta "GUEST2" this time. Ran the multicam process with the "FRONT" and "GUEST2" the result was the same as before. Only the last file from the second camera was used. In this case 1 of 6 mp4 files all with sequential names.

Fourth pass, I attempted all 3 camera positions. "FRONT" again was perfect, both "GUEST1" and "GUEST2" had only their last file used, and all others seemingly ignored.

When I opened the multicam track, both of the single files from the "GUEST1" and "GUEST2" cameras were again in the totally incorrect location.
ResolveFinal.PNG
ResolveFinal.PNG (758.6 KiB) Viewed 8086 times



Any thoughts, thanks again for the help. Since the incorrect result appears to be the same each time I'm inclined to thing that the issue is in my process, but the fact that the multicam routine is reliably leaving behind all the files save the last one from each of these cameras seems extremely strange.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostTue Apr 24, 2018 12:09 am

Which method are you using to sync them?
I suppose most of your cameras have no TC, since you only mentioned one as being 'prosumer'.

Syncing by waveform is kind of flaky in all NLEs I've tried, including DR.

Rather have a look at PluralEyes (there is a time-limited demo), it has never failed me. At lest if my files are not extremely short or the sound is not 'noise' only (like applause).

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mleonard

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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostTue Apr 24, 2018 6:48 pm

Sorry, for not putting that in there. I am using the audio (waveform) sync. We're shooting with an array of gear that we have access to, nothing so nice as matching cameras that we can sync the timecode on.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely check out PluralEyes.
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MrHotter

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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostFri May 11, 2018 6:53 pm

I've had (still have) several of the issues you are having.

My .MTS cameras were not reliably opening in Resolve. They either would not import, or would be missing the audio tracks. For my .MTS cameras I've been converting the files before bringing them into Resolve. Not having the audio also messes up the waveform multicam sync.

You pretty much solved the metadata issue. Just a note, you can select all the shots from a camera and update their metadata all at once. That's a good way to make sure the angle info matches.

The screenshot you showed has the 'Angle Sync' shown as 'in' rather than 'Sound'. Just make sure you have that set to sound to make sure you are using the audio for the sync.


Now, of course, this is where I am start having issues.

What happens for me is that the audio track and the main camera that is recording the whole time sync up just fine. My camera that is recording with breaks matches the first clip just fine, but the rest of the tracks are laid out behind the first clip without the breaks.

When I watching tutorials on YouTube for the multicam function it looks like the people trying to show others how to use it also ended up with too many angles and nothing matching. I'm not sure why they did not seem to notice. I saw the same issue on three videos.

There is either a bug in Resolve, or something simple we are missing that is keeping this from working for us. The fact that people are able to use other programs like PluralEyes or Premiere Pro to get multicam working with the same footage means that this should be something that Davinchi could fix/improve.

With the record time limit on DSLRs, I can imagine that many people using the mulitcam feature will need for the program to work with breaks in the recording.
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostTue May 14, 2019 5:37 am

Has anyone gotten anywhere with this. I have 47 clips across 4 cameras. I can sync everything fine in Plural eyes and import the XML which creates a nice timeline showing all my clips synced properly

However when I try to create a multicam I get 47 angles when trying to sync with sound. Clicking on Detect clips from same camera gives options of Camera#, Angle, Reel Number, Reel Name, and Roll card. Only the Angle shows up in the media tab and I can't even edit the field. I cant even edit that field in Clip attributes?

It seems to me that this is not a functional part of the software.

am using version 16 on windows 10.

Does anyone have a tutorial I can check out that actually works?

Thanks!
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostTue May 14, 2019 1:04 pm

Try this: On the Media Page, after loading the all clips from a single camera, leave those clips selected and edit the Angle Name in the Metadata, be sure to press the Save button at the bottom of the Metadata pane after you've edited. Do the same to all the clips from each of your cameras. Only then go through the Create Multicam Clip dialog.

Even then you may have problems. What I usually do is take each camera's clips and render them out as a single clip at the final settings with color correction applied.
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostMon Jun 03, 2019 11:44 pm

Same struggles. Only I can't even edit any metadata, or even edit any "angles" in the bins. All greyed out... any idea if I've missed something major here? (recent Premiere Pro convert trying out Resolve 16 B3)
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 12:40 am

Did you go to the media page and select the clips first?
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 6:37 am

Michael_Andreas wrote:Did you go to the media page and select the clips first?


Sure did. Tried selecting in all of the panes. Grey throughout.

Then discovered to change the metadata list from 'clip details' to 'shot & scene' in the dropdown and the editable fields showed, phew! Thanks.

I STILL have major issues with the multicam synching though with mutiple clips, it's just really poor.

While Pluraleyes and Premiere work flawlessly together, the Resolve syncing fails most of the time (with a wedding speeches or ceremony etc)! Roundtripping via fcpxml also fails which is irritating (where the same group of clips from premiere synch fine in pluraleyes)

I REALLY miss the simple way in Premiere that you can highlight a bunch of already synched video clips, nest them and then turn that nest into a multicam sequence....

BMD...can you not just borrow this simple method please!!
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 8:46 am

Sync on audio doesn't work with multiple clips from the same camera (and doesn't work reliably if the audio recording is with highly different - eg. AGC, differently placed mics etc.
I am using this workflow with multiple DSLR cameras:
1. Sync time on cameras as precisely as possible before the shot (but with DSLRs the best you can get is +/- 1 sec precision).
2. Most DSLR cameras don't have timecode in files. Edit each clip and set clip start timecode (look up the timing from file properties or MediaInfo app).
3. Set metadata - Camera# and/or angle.
4. Create multicam clip, check "detect camera" and sync on timecode.
5. Manually sync to a required precision each clip, as the timecode can give you only ~1 sec precision.
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 8:50 am

Romualdas Budriunas wrote:Sync on audio doesn't work with multiple clips from the same camera (and doesn't work reliably if the audio recording is with highly different - eg. AGC, differently placed mics etc.
I am using this workflow with multiple DSLR cameras:
1. Sync time on cameras as precisely as possible before the shot (but with DSLRs the best you can get is +/- 1 sec precision).
2. Most DSLR cameras don't have timecode in files. Edit each clip and set clip start timecode (look up the timing from file properties or MediaInfo app).
3. Set metadata - Camera# and/or angle.
4. Create multicam clip, check "detect camera" and sync on timecode.
5. Manually sync to a required precision each clip, as the timecode can give you only ~1 sec precision.


Thanks, but in my potential move from Premiere to Resolve (or FCPX) this is such a backwards step to have to go through, for something I use in every single project that it's a major deciding factor in choosing FCPX or Resolve to move to.

Until BMD sort this aspect out in resolve, or perhaps Pluraleyes make a deal with BMD then Resolve 16 is just not fit for purpose in Multicam terms, and I say that with great sadness as it really was looking like it had great potential for me.
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ineitrst

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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 11:17 am

I can`t belief, that BM ignore this Problem since today.
I have trie`d 3 times to Change from Vegas pro to Resolve, but there is no chance to edit klassical concerts with this Software !!
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostSun Sep 15, 2019 8:57 pm

I'm having the same issues. Two camera, three clips. Resolve simply cannot figure out what is who and when is where! I was looking at migrating over to this system, but I went through the days of Adobe when no one seemed to be monitoring their own forum to see the issues. If someone from BM were to jump in and say "hey guys we've been listening and we're working on it" at least they would keep some interest. Lack of communications will get you everytime. Good luck BM I'll keep paying my Adobe subscription until you get the bugs worked out.
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostMon Sep 16, 2019 6:54 pm

The workarounds further up this thread can work but it's more work that it's worth.

I've used Resolve for a few smaller non-multicam edits but for the larger edits it's just not feasable right now, at least not for edits involving multiple angles with lots of clips in each angle, and separate multipla audio sources.

Hopefully soon.
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostFri Feb 28, 2020 10:09 pm

This is such a huge bummer, I was so excited transitioning from premiere to resolve and now it seems you can't sync a multicam shot with several video files per angle.

I tried 2 workarounds and both failed, one was to make a compound clip of all the clips from each camera (they all line up well) and then create a multicam clip with all the compound clips, but it fails to sync with the audio for some reason.

Then I tried creating a different timeline with all the clips from each camera and then creating a multicam clip from the different timelines but that didn't work either. It will create 3 angles (correct) but it will fail to sync them :?

Blackmagic please make me proud to wear a Tshirt with your logo and fix this! I was even thinking of making a donation for your almost wonderful software as I'm using the free version.
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostFri Feb 28, 2020 11:22 pm

If the multiple files per camera are continuation files because of 4GB filesize limits and you're trying to sync by audio, there is metadata that you can assign clips and boxes to check in the multicam creation dialog that may sort things out for you.

If that doesn't work, then do the following:
(1) Start all your cameras recording at about the same time but certainly within the time of one of the files.
(2) Use a slate or just a hand clap once all cameras are started within pickup range of the on-camera microphones.
(3) Do an audio sync of the first files from all the cameras.
(4) In the Media Page, select the created multicam clip and Open in Timeiine.
(5) in the Timeline view, Drag the follow-on files to the proper video track in the proper order.
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostWed Jul 01, 2020 6:07 pm

How can this issue still not have been addressed.
I think this is a problem for a lot of people
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Winelfred G. Pasamba

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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostSun Nov 22, 2020 4:16 am

this is how i did it:

i have only two cameras. cam1 has two files, cam2 has 3 files.

i selected only the first files from each camera and Created a New Multi-Camera Clip
then i right-clicked the new multi-cam clip and opened it in timeline then appended all the other files to each strip

then i went back to Timeline 1 and added the multi-cam clip.

hope it helps :D
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostTue Jan 26, 2021 10:48 pm

Winelfred G. Pasamba wrote:this is how i did it:

i have only two cameras. cam1 has two files, cam2 has 3 files.

i selected only the first files from each camera and Created a New Multi-Camera Clip
then i right-clicked the new multi-cam clip and opened it in timeline then appended all the other files to each strip

then i went back to Timeline 1 and added the multi-cam clip.

hope it helps :D


I don't see an upvote-button, so... woah! thank you :-D

edit: oh. I did as you, created a Multicam-Clip with the first clips (via inpoint), opened it in timeline and added the follow-up-clip.
just reached the end of the first camera-2-bit editing with the Speed Editor Keyboard. as it should, the second clip of camera 2 is shown in the Sync-Bin-viewer and I can watch the footage, but I can't insert/append it into the timeline by pressing Cam2 and turning the speed dial. by choosing cam2 as source I can set in- and outpoints and drag'n'drop it in the timeline, but it won't work with the dial anymore.

did you experience problems with this method in any way? do you have the Speed Editor as well?

edit2: well, I corrected timecodes, now I could sync follow-up-clips of two cameras as intended.

greetings,
Freddy
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostMon Oct 10, 2022 1:59 pm

OMG!
this is it!
tnx
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostWed Oct 19, 2022 3:42 pm

hello everyone, I have the same problem in DAVINCI Studio 18.0.2. I am organizing the material for a documentary, each interview I have is filmed with 2 Pocket 6K pro cameras and 2 microphones, so I have 4 sources to synchronize (2 videos + 2 audios) but everything is divided into several shots (3 or 4 shots - cuts). Comment that all sources have time code.
I have tried to order the angles in the media page, and create the multicam but if I select all the clips it goes crazy, the sync of the first shot works fine for me, but the rest of the shots go crazy in the timeline. I find it curious that Blackmagic cannot implement a solution to this common task. I have been working on FCPX for more than 7 years and it always does it well (naming each angle correctly before in the metadata). My only solution is to do the multicam in FCPX, throw the multicam to a timeline and export an XML to DAVINCI, it's a step backwards, any suggestions??? Thank you
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Re: Multicam with multiple files per camera

PostTue Jan 02, 2024 6:17 pm

It is very disappointing that in 2023 Davici Resolve still cannot do this.

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