Auto capture colorchecker

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Zaur Huseynov

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Auto capture colorchecker

PostSat May 19, 2018 1:17 pm

developers, you can add the ability to automatically capture color checker, one click., so as not to waste time on manual configuration. I think it will not be difficult for you to do this. Thanks!)
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Uli Plank

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Re: Auto capture colorchecker

PostSat May 19, 2018 9:56 pm

Zaur Huseynov wrote:I think it will not be difficult for you to do this.


Are you sure? With different sizes, types of chart, backgrounds and lighting situation? I don't think so!

Too much work to put into a function with limited use. IMHO, there are much more important things to fix.
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Auto capture colorchecker

PostSat May 19, 2018 11:04 pm

The alternative would be to actually learn how to color correct. You don't have to use the automatic controls at all... and in fact I would be that 100% of all major Hollywood films and TV series you've seen were color-corrected completely manually.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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Martin Schitter

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Re: Auto capture colorchecker

PostSat May 19, 2018 11:27 pm

Uli Plank wrote:
Zaur Huseynov wrote:I think it will not be difficult for you to do this.


Are you sure? With different sizes, types of chart, backgrounds and lighting situation? I don't think so!
Too much work to put into a function with limited use. IMHO, there are much more important things to fix.


it's in fact a quite common feature, which you'll find for example already in the archaic AryllCMS command line tool 'scanin', although it would need some additional improvements, before you could use this very simple kind of approach in a more reliable manner for typical video CC24 clapper board utilization.

see also:
https://ryanfb.github.io/etc/2015/07/08 ... ction.html
https://github.com/OpenImageAnalysisGroup/ICCS
http://www.pe.org.pl/articles/2014/9/49.pdf
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Zaur Huseynov

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Re: Auto capture colorchecker

PostSun May 20, 2018 11:54 am

Marc Wielage wrote:The alternative would be to actually learn how to color correct. You don't have to use the automatic controls at all... and in fact I would be that 100% of all major Hollywood films and TV series you've seen were color-corrected completely manually.

color checker is very often needed for color correction at once several different cameras, even for one camera, in all commercial projects, use a color checker. I see nothing wrong with getting a quick basic color correction
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Zaur Huseynov

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Re: Auto capture colorchecker

PostSun May 20, 2018 11:59 am

Martin Schitter wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:
Zaur Huseynov wrote:I think it will not be difficult for you to do this.


Are you sure? With different sizes, types of chart, backgrounds and lighting situation? I don't think so!
Too much work to put into a function with limited use. IMHO, there are much more important things to fix.


it's in fact a quite common feature, which you'll find for example already in the archaic AryllCMS command line tool 'scanin', although it would need some additional improvements, before you could use this very simple kind of approach in a more reliable manner for typical video CC24 clapper board utilization.

see also:
https://ryanfb.github.io/etc/2015/07/08 ... ction.html
https://github.com/OpenImageAnalysisGroup/ICCS
http://www.pe.org.pl/articles/2014/9/49.pdf

Yes, right . they only add the most popular checkers, as a template, so that the program itself determines the checker, only in manual only the choice of camera, color space and temperature
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Martin Schitter

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Re: Auto capture colorchecker

PostSun May 20, 2018 2:49 pm

Zaur Huseynov wrote:Yes, right . they only add the most popular checkers, as a template, so that the program itself determines the checker, only in manual only the choice of camera, color space and temperature


scanin supports many different color charts, and you can easily extend it's recognition capabilities by adding custom test pattern descriptions. i was already asking for IT8.7 chart recognition in resolve a few times in the past, because this type of test pattern is a very common choice for camera profiling, which shows huge advantages over CC24 in many cases.

but i think, BMD isn't so much interested in any practical useful implementation of this feature -- a kind of tool which would also report actual color deviations in a more useful way, etc...

toy like gadgets, which look very impressive and powerful at first sight resp. in PR demonstrations, but don't fulfill the promised relief in any practical work, are more or less symptomatic for their approach. if you are looking for an even more broken example: just test the automatic audio synchronization capabilities of resolve, which also never worked nearly just as usable as most similar features even in very simple free open source editing solutions. :(

sure, you can argue, like marc already remarked, that this kind of gadgets do not make much sense in the context of professional tools, because in serious workflows you simply use other techniques and human expertise to solve the regarding tasks. but in this case it would perhaps better, to simply do not add this kind of features at all. but whenever such a feature is present in a professional application, it simply should work adequate and satisfying.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Auto capture colorchecker

PostMon May 21, 2018 4:11 am

If you'd like something fully automagic, have a look at Epicolor (but FCP-X only).
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Martin Schitter

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Re: Auto capture colorchecker

PostMon May 21, 2018 10:53 am

Uli Plank wrote:If you'd like something fully automagic, have a look at Epicolor (but FCP-X only).


that's indeed another interesting kind of automatism, but it does work in completely different way.

as a more satisfaying replacement of the auto color checker in resolve, i would perhaps mention DcamProf resp. it's lumariver profile designer GUI helper. although lumariver also doesn't come with an automatic pattern finder, as asked by the TO, it's at least an alternative, which reports a lot of actual measurement data and offers useful customization options, which you will not find in resolves color checker tool right now.

sure, more automatism and simple user friendly solutions may also have their benefits and will make many customers happy, but i still prefer solutions, which make complex tasks -- like camera profiling -- a little bit easier handleable and more comfortable, but don't get in the way in the way, if you need more manual control and reasonable decision making. that's why i somehow sympathize with automatizing the pattern finding and target grid alignment task -- because it's just a dumb time consuming task --, but would otherwise like to see more professional control and possibility of manual intervention in this particular tool, to make it more useful in practice.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Auto capture colorchecker

PostMon May 21, 2018 11:51 am

I'm agree that we not need auto ricognization of color chart, I'm not agree that are not useful in pro environment.
If you use different cameras, different setup, with a Lasy DiT, if you must add vfx, if you must work with difficult light situation the color chart is a useful tool to match the same element captured from different lenses, sensors or simplier different time of day where color of sky change ( and i meeting often all of these task plus vfx integrazion).
With hdri (96bit pictures for 3d rendering, not a delivery method) the color chart often are a good way to do a better compositing work. In post you can change color of final picture, but you cannot change riflected light in a surface, the backlight behind a creature that go underskin, and more.
Not all need color chart yes, no one pro need color chart, no...


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Marc Wielage

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Re: Auto capture colorchecker

PostWed May 23, 2018 1:59 am

Zaur Huseynov wrote:color checker is very often needed for color correction at once several different cameras, even for one camera...

Naw, I match them all by eye, with good scopes and monitors. It can be done -- it just takes time, experience, and effort. There is no magic to it and nothing automatic, but it does help to understand how cameras work, what happens in the lighting process, and how to solve problems on your own.

At least we didn't have to match cameras in the film days. I'm amazed that the great film lab color timers were able to get the results as good as they did -- often with material shot weeks apart, on different cameras, different lenses, different days, different locations, often different crews. There were no automatic buttons in the film lab.

Don't look to an automatic solution: look to yourself and figure it out. It's good experience and will come in handy in the future for situations where no charts were possible.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood

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