Just how much grunt do I need?

Get answers to your questions about color grading, editing and finishing with DaVinci Resolve.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

stevelees

  • Posts: 23
  • Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:50 am
  • Real Name: Steve Lees

Just how much grunt do I need?

PostFri Jul 27, 2018 1:22 am

I am using DR15 Beta, (have tried previous version as well) on a HP Z840 with 32GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro P4000, 2 x Xeon 8 Core CPUs with multi-threading and ultra fast HP SSD (3000MBs read/write).

With a small 4K project, (Phone footage at 29.97 fps) playback is ultra smooth at full frame rate UNTIL I add a text overlay (Lower 3rd Corporate Corners 1 Line), at which point I get half speed playback, or jittery playback - 15 fps for rendered text and 3 fps if unrendered.

During the playback CPU usage is 30-35% and GPU around 15%, so I can not see why playback is so appallingly slow given the resources going unused. During another section with a noise filter, the GPU goes up to 95% and playbacks smoothly at close to full frame rate (25fps).

Performance is similarly poor on my Dell XP15 with 32GB RAM and Core i9 6 Core processor and fast SSD. I have followed suggestions elsewhere on how to improve performance but nothing seems to improve this poor playback.

So, what am i missing please?

PS: I have tried the native footage off the phone as well footage converted to XAVC Intra.
Regards Steve...

HP Z840 | 2 x Xeon with 16 Cores | 32GB RAM | HP + Intel SSD | Nvidia M2000 + P4000 GPUs | HP Z27s 4K Monitor
Dell XPS15 | Core i9 6 Cores | 32GB RAM |1TB SSD | 4K Touch Display
Offline

stevelees

  • Posts: 23
  • Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:50 am
  • Real Name: Steve Lees

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostFri Jul 27, 2018 7:08 am

OK tried new project using Sony A7R II 4K footage straight of the camera at 25fps, playsback smooth as in full frame rate until I put an effect on the video, at which point I get 1fps, this can not be right surely??
Regards Steve...

HP Z840 | 2 x Xeon with 16 Cores | 32GB RAM | HP + Intel SSD | Nvidia M2000 + P4000 GPUs | HP Z27s 4K Monitor
Dell XPS15 | Core i9 6 Cores | 32GB RAM |1TB SSD | 4K Touch Display
Offline
User avatar

JPOwens

  • Posts: 1353
  • Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:04 pm
  • Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostFri Jul 27, 2018 6:02 pm

stevelees wrote:what am i missing please?


First thing anyone is going to look at is your GPU.
On the face of it 8 GB of VRAM and 1792 CUDA cores combined UI/color compute might be a strain for 4K depending on how much reconstruction is going on within your node tree. CPU usage is often misunderstood with respect to Resolve, since it has almost nothing to do with color computing, but everything to do with reconstituting Long-GOP formats so that intra frames are presented to the application. The more highly-compressed the source media, the higher the stress will be on the CPUs - in a single GPU configuration, you will run out of memory very quickly and data through-put and system RAM might well be irrelevant.
iPhone footage is probably massively compressed and Variable Frame Rate on top of it, so this would be the compromise that many users have had to contend with -- storage efficiency vs. processor stress.

jPo, CSI
Offline
User avatar

Jack Fairley

  • Posts: 702
  • Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:58 pm

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostFri Jul 27, 2018 7:06 pm

Your GPU is not powerful enough to handle any GPU effects in real time at 4K. As mentioned, phone footage is usually variable framerate, which Resolve can't handle. Transcode it to DNxHR or ProRes in another application, and you might have better results.
Offline

stevelees

  • Posts: 23
  • Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:50 am
  • Real Name: Steve Lees

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostFri Jul 27, 2018 10:59 pm

Thanks guys, I realise phone footage is not ideal, hence the change to using the Sony footage as a better test. From what you are saying, it seems the really top end Nvidia cards that are several thousands of dollars, is what is needed to edit 4K with effects, is that correct?

Also, I do not see that it is using all of the resources it has, ie GPU and CPU, so I do not understand why that is the case if it requires more GPU, why not use what it is has?
Regards Steve...

HP Z840 | 2 x Xeon with 16 Cores | 32GB RAM | HP + Intel SSD | Nvidia M2000 + P4000 GPUs | HP Z27s 4K Monitor
Dell XPS15 | Core i9 6 Cores | 32GB RAM |1TB SSD | 4K Touch Display
Offline
User avatar

Jack Fairley

  • Posts: 702
  • Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:58 pm

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostFri Jul 27, 2018 11:13 pm

stevelees wrote:From what you are saying, it seems the really top end Nvidia cards that are several thousands of dollars, is what is needed to edit 4K with effects, is that correct?

No, you can use multiple GPUs. I recommend using two GTX 1080 Ti cards for 4K, which is theoretically under $2000.
Also, I do not see that it is using all of the resources it has, ie GPU and CPU, so I do not understand why that is the case if it requires more GPU, why not use what it is has?

I would check again while you're having playback issues with GPU-Z, and see if it's maxing out your GPU. If you can share the test footage, I'll try it on my PC.
Offline

stevelees

  • Posts: 23
  • Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:50 am
  • Real Name: Steve Lees

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSat Jul 28, 2018 1:10 am

There is nothing special about the footage, so probably not worth sharing. I have done some more tests with no effects, just applying LUT's and it is buttery smooth, CPU usage is around 15-20% and GPU about 15%, so not taxing at all.

It is not until I add something like an IGNITE effect or one of Resolves animated text overlays that the whole thing bongs down. The strange thing is the CPU and GPU are not anywhere near being maxed out, it is just the playback is 1-3 fps with those effects on.

That is what I am struggling to understand...if the GPU and/or CPU were being pegged I would understand the playback being so poor in terms of FPS, but they are not....does that make sense?
Regards Steve...

HP Z840 | 2 x Xeon with 16 Cores | 32GB RAM | HP + Intel SSD | Nvidia M2000 + P4000 GPUs | HP Z27s 4K Monitor
Dell XPS15 | Core i9 6 Cores | 32GB RAM |1TB SSD | 4K Touch Display
Offline

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 3077
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSat Jul 28, 2018 5:01 am

Let's exclude the load of GOP-footage:
What happens if you transcode some footage into ProRes or DNxHR in 4K and use the same effects?

Which resolve filters exactly did you try? I get pretty smooth performance from my Sony A7R II footage and a middle-ground iMac with the Radeon 580.
Resolve Studio and Fusion Studio
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM and 32 GB RAM
Offline
User avatar

Marc Wielage

  • Posts: 4473
  • Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:46 am
  • Location: Hollywood, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 12:28 am

More grunt is always good. You can never have enough grunt when it comes to hardware.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
Offline

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 3077
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 1:42 am

But more grunt = more dough
Resolve Studio and Fusion Studio
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM and 32 GB RAM
Offline
User avatar

Marc Wielage

  • Posts: 4473
  • Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:46 am
  • Location: Hollywood, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 5:01 am

Uli Plank wrote:But more grunt = more dough

The post-production business is like that: not for the weak of heart or small of wallet.

Be glad you didn't need more grunt 10-15 years ago, when that cost serious, serious money. It's only been 8 years since Resolve was released for Macintosh (and the price dropped more than $200,000), first shown at NAB in April 2010, so there is that.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
Offline

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 3077
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 5:37 am

Well, I left the complaining to others, I'm quite happy.

I did 3D animation from the mid eighties and a quarter million SGI (anybody remember that company?) IRIS workstation needed 24 hours to complete a single SD frame with global illumination.

I'm doing that on my laptop in HD in 12 minutes these days…
Resolve Studio and Fusion Studio
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM and 32 GB RAM
Offline
User avatar

Roen Davis

  • Posts: 153
  • Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:06 am

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 8:32 am

1985 (ish) $AU8mil (+/-) - 5xVPR3s, Century Mixer, 4 Chanel ADO CMX 3400, various other expensive stuff $1400per hour to make SD stuff that sucked.

1997 (ish) $AU1mil Quantel Editbox. Relatively fantastic to make digital SD in 16:9!!

2005 $AU350,000 Quantel eQ. HD in a box....not bad but.....

2018 $AU80,000 (ish) thank you gamers! Affordable 4K. Better than ever and getting better all the time.
to the deaf person the dancer appears mad
Offline

Dermot Shane

  • Posts: 1310
  • Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 5:05 pm

stevelees wrote:It is not until I add something like an IGNITE effect or one of Resolves animated text overlays that the whole thing bongs down. The strange thing is the CPU and GPU are not anywhere near being maxed out, it is just the playback is 1-3 fps with those effects on.
....does that make sense?

it does make some sense as Ignite uses the CPU, and nothing on the GPU... no matter how much grunt you have on the GPU, it's not going to be of any use, i node cache Ignite, and all other OFX that do not run on the GPU's.....

i have not had a reason to try the Fusion text overlays, maybe look at taskmangler and see if it's also not useing the GPU?
Offline

Dermot Shane

  • Posts: 1310
  • Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 7:07 pm

Roen Davis wrote:1985 (ish) $AU8mil (+/-) - 5xVPR3s, Century Mixer, 4 Chanel ADO CMX 3400, various other expensive stuff $1400per hour to make SD stuff that sucked.

1997 (ish) $AU1mil Quantel Editbox. Relatively fantastic to make digital SD in 16:9!!

2005 $AU350,000 Quantel eQ. HD in a box....not bad but.....

2018 $AU80,000 (ish) thank you gamers! Affordable 4K. Better than ever and getting better all the time.


i stumbled across the invoice for DS v4.01($283,000 USD), 800gig Scsi storage (24 x 36g drives @ $29,000 USD), Techtronix waveform and vector scope ($27,000USD) and the Sony BVM32D monitor ($64,000 USD)

in 2000, this was the cutting edge for HD @ 400k.... room rates were a bit higher then tho

18 years later i was using that same DS licence on a comerical last week, now running on a z820 tho... 18 years of billable hours so far.... the hardware is pretty much dead by now, i still have the IBM zpro in the racks tho, still runs fine as 2 x 933Mhz / 8gig will run in 2018...
Offline
User avatar

Marc Wielage

  • Posts: 4473
  • Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:46 am
  • Location: Hollywood, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostMon Jul 30, 2018 7:34 am

Dermot Shane wrote:i stumbled across the invoice for DS v4.01($283,000 USD), 800gig Scsi storage (24 x 36g drives @ $29,000 USD), Techtronix waveform and vector scope ($27,000USD) and the Sony BVM32D monitor ($64,000 USD)...

We bought three Sony BVM-32E 32" HD mastering displays around 2000-2001 at NAB, and I believe they gave us a deal so the invoice cost was only about $22,000 each. List price was not more than 25% higher than that, at least in the U.S. I dunno about Canada.

Interesting that for all the great price breaks in the post business, great mastering displays still cost a lotta dough. Speakers, too. Some things do not go down in cost.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
Offline
User avatar

Roen Davis

  • Posts: 153
  • Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:06 am

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostMon Jul 30, 2018 7:55 am

Marc Wielage wrote:
Interesting that for all the great price breaks in the post business, great mastering displays still cost a lotta dough. Speakers, too. Some things do not go down in cost.

If we could just get gamers to start getting mastering panels......
to the deaf person the dancer appears mad
Offline

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 3077
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostMon Jul 30, 2018 8:51 am

Or broadcast screens…
Resolve Studio and Fusion Studio
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM and 32 GB RAM
Offline

roger.magnusson

  • Posts: 414
  • Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:58 pm
  • Location: Sweden

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostMon Jul 30, 2018 11:22 am

Dermot Shane wrote:it does make some sense as Ignite uses the CPU, and nothing on the GPU... no matter how much grunt you have on the GPU, it's not going to be of any use, i node cache Ignite, and all other OFX that do not run on the GPU's.....
I know it's nitpicking, but I don't think it's true that the Ignite Pro/Ignite Express effects do not use the GPU. Try them in FCPX, they're crazy fast. I asked the FXHome developers why they're so slow in DaVinci Resolve and they said it's because DR uses the GPU:s in another way, where everything is constantly copied between the system memory and the GPU memory instead of just using the GPU.
Offline

Dermot Shane

  • Posts: 1310
  • Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 3:39 am

yea, the dev's/support at Ignite have been absolutly great for me, and i do see the effects run much faster in Avid MC on the same machine

that said the question at hand is how much grunt do i need to run Ignite realtime? and it seems it's really best addressed with node cacheing, and not expecting realtime playback with those in the node tree in Resolve

i run dual 12c 2697v2's / dual 1080Ti's / 128g / SAS array and i see maybe 3fps with my most used Ignite ofx like muzzle flash in a UHD project, not holding out hope that even a loaded z8 would come near realtime
Offline

Rohit Gupta

Blackmagic Design

  • Posts: 969
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:00 am

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 3:56 am

roger.magnusson wrote:
Dermot Shane wrote:it does make some sense as Ignite uses the CPU, and nothing on the GPU... no matter how much grunt you have on the GPU, it's not going to be of any use, i node cache Ignite, and all other OFX that do not run on the GPU's.....
I know it's nitpicking, but I don't think it's true that the Ignite Pro/Ignite Express effects do not use the GPU. Try them in FCPX, they're crazy fast. I asked the FXHome developers why they're so slow in DaVinci Resolve and they said it's because DR uses the GPU:s in another way, where everything is constantly copied between the system memory and the GPU memory instead of just using the GPU.


You should point them to the OpenFX examples we ship with Resolve. It can be accessed using Help, Developer Docs. Lots of 3rd party plugins implement the GPU extensions, and they work in real-time across multiple GPUs.
Rohit Gupta

DaVinci Resolve Software Development
Blackmagic Design
Offline

stevelees

  • Posts: 23
  • Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:50 am
  • Real Name: Steve Lees

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 4:33 am

Well after buying DR and installing the studio 15 Beta version, I love it and performance is awesome. The problem I have been having is Ignite, it slows everything to a crawl. I even downloaded the latest version of it, thinking that may be the problem but no. I have now removed it from my system altogether.

So the question is, what effects plugins do work really well with DR?
Regards Steve...

HP Z840 | 2 x Xeon with 16 Cores | 32GB RAM | HP + Intel SSD | Nvidia M2000 + P4000 GPUs | HP Z27s 4K Monitor
Dell XPS15 | Core i9 6 Cores | 32GB RAM |1TB SSD | 4K Touch Display
Offline

Dermot Shane

  • Posts: 1310
  • Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 6:05 am

i'd leave Ignite in the OFX folder and node cache as needed, same with RedGiant, BCC, NewBlue etc etc etc

Paul Dore's OFX that are written for cuda are easly realtime
Offline

stevelees

  • Posts: 23
  • Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:50 am
  • Real Name: Steve Lees

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 10:11 am

Where might I find the Paul Dore plugs please?
Regards Steve...

HP Z840 | 2 x Xeon with 16 Cores | 32GB RAM | HP + Intel SSD | Nvidia M2000 + P4000 GPUs | HP Z27s 4K Monitor
Dell XPS15 | Core i9 6 Cores | 32GB RAM |1TB SSD | 4K Touch Display
Offline

sacherjj

  • Posts: 46
  • Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:19 pm
  • Location: Indianapolis, IN
  • Real Name: Joe Sacher

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 1:25 pm

Roen Davis wrote:
Marc Wielage wrote:
Interesting that for all the great price breaks in the post business, great mastering displays still cost a lotta dough. Speakers, too. Some things do not go down in cost.

If we could just get gamers to start getting mastering panels......


Get some panels to start supporting Gsync and maybe...
Windows 10 Pro
Resolve 15b7
AMD Ryzen 2700x
Asrock x370 Tachi
32GB DDR4 @ 3200
GTX 1060 6GB
BM Intensity Pro 4k
Offline

Dermot Shane

  • Posts: 1310
  • Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 2:46 pm

stevelees wrote:Where might I find the Paul Dore plugs please?


https://github.com/baldavenger
Offline
User avatar

Peter Benson

  • Posts: 180
  • Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:12 pm
  • Location: Eastern Time Zone, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 8:58 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:But more grunt = more dough

The post-production business is like that: not for the weak of heart or small of wallet.


[Gratuitous Rant] How thankful I am, that the near-condescending technological elitism characterized by statements that mirror the above sentiment is becoming increasingly challenged if not obliterated by disruptors in our industry such as Blackmagic Design.

The elitists are for a long time now. utterly disgusted by the democratization of the broadcast industry tools and methodologies to the degree it makes my heart exceedingly glad. [/Rant]

ResolveStudio 14.3...014 | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2
DTV 10.9.7 > Kingston SD5000T > MiniMonitor > Bravia | Samsung U28D590 | DRS 14.3.0.014 | Win8.1 x64 | ASUS G751JL, i7-4720HQ, 24GB | GTX965M | 1TB HDD, 500GB EVO 850 SSD | MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2
Offline
User avatar

Jack Fairley

  • Posts: 702
  • Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:58 pm

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 9:30 pm

sacherjj wrote:Get some panels to start supporting Gsync and maybe...

10-bit panel, DCI 4K, good Rec. 2020 coverage... with 144Hz support and Gsync :D :D :D
Offline
User avatar

Peter Benson

  • Posts: 180
  • Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:12 pm
  • Location: Eastern Time Zone, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Aug 05, 2018 8:20 am

Marc Wielage wrote:
Interesting that for all the great price breaks in the post business, great mastering displays still cost a lotta dough. Speakers, too. Some things do not go down in cost.


[Respectable Rebuttal]:
Over the course of the past few decades, and increasingly so -- loudpeaker systems (both passive and also the powered variety, designed for near-field and mid-field monitoring purposes, as well as those spec'd for P.A. (Public Address) and commercial applications, let alone home theater systems -- have utterly come to market with startlingly impressive sonic detail. dynamic range capability, low distortion, great frequency response and imaging characteristics and at exceedingly modest cost which rival systems traditionally costing much, much more.
#TruthBomb

Such is a trend that, along with other transducers (i.e., notably microphones) benefitting from computer-aided design and efficient production techniques, render the above quote unfaithful as regards things which purportedly "do not go down in cost."

Focal, KRK and Presonus are but a few among a myriad of examples of brands that comprise speaker systems which easily apply here.

One gets the nonsensical notion from trusting the above, that's contrived out of thin air -- that a respectable level of accuracy in monitoring (sonically if not also visually) is utterly out of reach for the masses.

Let's not fall for the elitism that's marred this industry for far, far too long.

ResolveStudio 14.3...014 | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2
DTV 10.9.7 > Kingston SD5000T > MiniMonitor > Bravia | Samsung U28D590 | DRS 14.3.0.014 | Win8.1 x64 | ASUS G751JL, i7-4720HQ, 24GB | GTX965M | 1TB HDD, 500GB EVO 850 SSD | MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2
Offline
User avatar

Charles Bennett

  • Posts: 310
  • Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:55 am
  • Location: United Kingdom

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Aug 05, 2018 10:07 am

Why do you equate expensive systems with elitism? Decent tools have always cost money regardless of the industry. Accurate studio monitors still cost.
Attachments
PMC2.JPG
PMC2.JPG (109.01 KiB) Viewed 321 times
PMC 1.JPG
PMC 1.JPG (90.68 KiB) Viewed 321 times
Dell XPS 8700 Core i7-4790 @ 3.60GHz, 24GB RAM, Nvidia Geforce GTX 750Ti, Win 10 Home, DaVinci Resolve (free) 15.0, Canon HF G40.
Dell Precision 490 dual 4 core Xeon Workstation, 16GB ECC RAM, Win 7 Ultimate, Pro Tools 2018.7
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 3936
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Aug 05, 2018 11:12 am

47K? Some extreme example.
5K will buy you good monitors (or even less) unless you try to be in top 10 audio studios in the world.
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 3936
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Aug 05, 2018 11:23 am

Marc Wielage wrote:The post-production business is like that: not for the weak of heart or small of wallet.

Be glad you didn't need more grunt 10-15 years ago, when that cost serious, serious money. It's only been 8 years since Resolve was released for Macintosh (and the price dropped more than $200,000), first shown at NAB in April 2010, so there is that.


Yes and at the end pays you badly.
The further you are in the chain the less money left.
If you try to use "old approach" as a small studio then you will be quickly bankrupt these days. You have to be clever wit good sense for compromises. In the same time you CAN have successful business running on <1K apps (with some exceptions mainly for hardware). No one pays today 100K for a single software.
I've seen many small places buying expensive software/hardware only because bigger studios have them. This is one of the biggest mistakes you can make. Quite a few smaller places are over-invested in software/hardware which later is used just in eg. 10% (and it's never most efficient software anyway). There are also many under invested where some operations take ages holding whole chain (yet no one sees it or realises that it can be fixed for eg. 500£). Balance is the key element.
Offline
User avatar

Marc Wielage

  • Posts: 4473
  • Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:46 am
  • Location: Hollywood, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostMon Aug 06, 2018 2:53 am

stevelees wrote:Where might I find the Paul Dore plugs please?

Paul Dore's free open-source OFX plug-ins are available at this link:

https://github.com/baldavenger
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
Offline
User avatar

Marc Wielage

  • Posts: 4473
  • Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:46 am
  • Location: Hollywood, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostMon Aug 06, 2018 2:57 am

Peter Benson wrote:How thankful I am, that the near-condescending technological elitism characterized by statements that mirror the above sentiment is becoming increasingly challenged if not obliterated by disruptors in our industry such as Blackmagic Design.

Even with free (and inexpensive) software available from Blackmagic, there is a specific cost of entry required. Read Blackmagic's own Configuration Guide and you'll see that to achieve a certain performance level, you have to have a minimum investment in hardware.

Me, I think the glass is half-full: I'm glad that Resolve doesn't cost $500,000 as it did back in 2008. But in truth, a full-blown Linux Resolve with everything, including 8 GPUs, could very well cost $100K. And that's without monitors, scopes, audio, a console, chairs, or a room around it. But $100K is a lot more reasonable than $500K. And it is possible to have a decent, more-modest Resolve system at $10K, still doing billable work. The question boils down to what level of performance is expected.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
Offline
User avatar

Peter Benson

  • Posts: 180
  • Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:12 pm
  • Location: Eastern Time Zone, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostFri Aug 10, 2018 9:52 pm

Charles Bennett wrote:Why do you equate expensive systems with elitism? Decent tools have always cost money regardless of the industry. Accurate studio monitors still cost.


A misinterpretation of what was plainly stated, might lead the non-discerning to that false conclusion.

Moreover -- hordes of examples exist, for stellar performance products well designed and well built that have shattered the high-price categories which were the mainstay of tools and systems across varied industry sectors just a decade ago.

You simply read an unintended meaning into my words, and my conspicuous reference to "disruptors" in our industry-- as well as others, in case you missed it, has resounding veracity, as many have come to realize, and thoroughly enjoy the capabilities and performance levels that used to be relegated only to persons and entities with mega truckloads of cash or exceedingly high bank credit limits at their disposal.

Moreover, an honest read of what was written by this writer earlier cannot possibly be construed so as to support a ridiculous #strawmanargument suggesting that "high[er] performance" tools don't "cost money".

Elitism in the context of my intended meaning, then, would be characteristic of those manifestly annoyed -- [and possibly nearly angrily deranged] over this awe-inspiring democratization of quality built, exponentially higher performance media design, production post and distribution tools and technologies made accessible to an increasingly greater part of the masses, at modest cost.
#TruthBomb


[Re]Pete

ResolveStudio 14.3...014 | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | more...
DTV 10.9.7 > Kingston SD5000T > MiniMonitor > Bravia | Samsung U28D590 | DRS 14.3.0.014 | Win8.1 x64 | ASUS G751JL, i7-4720HQ, 24GB | GTX965M | 1TB HDD, 500GB EVO 850 SSD | MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2
Offline
User avatar

Peter Benson

  • Posts: 180
  • Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:12 pm
  • Location: Eastern Time Zone, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostFri Aug 10, 2018 11:40 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:Even with free (and inexpensive) software available from Blackmagic, there is a specific cost of entry required. Read Blackmagic's own Configuration Guide and you'll see that to achieve a certain performance level, you have to have a minimum investment in hardware.




Marc Wielage wrote:
Peter Benson wrote:How thankful I am, that the near-condescending technological elitism characterized by statements that mirror the above sentiment is becoming increasingly challenged if not obliterated by disruptors in our industry such as Blackmagic Design.

Even with free (and inexpensive) software available from Blackmagic, there is a specific cost of entry required. Read Blackmagic's own Configuration Guide and you'll see that to achieve a certain performance level, you have to have a minimum investment in hardware.


That response suitable for the "Captain Obvious" character in some USA hotel chain's commercials in no way negates the truth of what was advanced by myself above.

What's more, the above quote loses at least some veracity -- for some (say, Resolve and Resolve Studio users) -- when one considers the need to take into consideration just what Enduser "A" chooses to do with his or her seat of utterly powerful tools and capabilities provided in the free variant -- as well as in the $299USD Davinci Resolve Studio.

For example, cost of entry for audio sweetening with DaVinci Resolve as host to Softube Console 1 Mkii is miserly low, given that that toolset duo, hosted on a modest Windows 7 gaming notebook PC such as is utilized by ourselves here, provides sonic performance capability in audio engineering, mixing and mastering with Fairlight -- rivaling that of a Solid State Logic 4000E mixing console.

So then, my expressed consternation is over the unnecessary condescension a small contingent like to spew forth, in vain attempts at discrediting and marginalizing the exemplary quality of tools and their high-end-rivaling performance results, at uber cost-effective price points, such as can be realized with notable, choice examples of "disruptor" Blackmagic Design hardware/software;

Such is also the case with powerfully effective, modestly priced 3rd party products utilized in tandem with Blackmagic Design product offerings such as you see in my signature.
-[Re]Pete

ResolveStudio 14.3...014 | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | more...
DTV 10.9.7 > Kingston SD5000T > MiniMonitor > Bravia | Samsung U28D590 | DRS 14.3.0.014 | Win8.1 x64 | ASUS G751JL, i7-4720HQ, 24GB | GTX965M | 1TB HDD, 500GB EVO 850 SSD | MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2
Offline
User avatar

Marc Wielage

  • Posts: 4473
  • Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:46 am
  • Location: Hollywood, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSat Aug 11, 2018 3:36 am

Peter Benson wrote:That response suitable for the "Captain Obvious" character in some USA hotel chain's

Everything I said is still true. Spend more money, get better hardware, and you'll see better performance from Resolve. Just because software is cheap (or even free) doesn't mean it works well with cheap equipment. In truth, the computer and the software in a color room might be the cheapest investment in the room. It's the everything else that represents the biggest investment, particularly monitors, storage, control panels, plug-ins, and so on.

I would compare this to audio: you might spend $1000 on a Pro Tools or Fairlight system, then spend many, many thousands of dollars on acoustics, loudspeakers, a mixing surface, microphones, preamps, outboard processors... it never ends.

BMD's Config specs are a wealth of information, and they keep them fairly up to date.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
Offline
User avatar

Peter Benson

  • Posts: 180
  • Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:12 pm
  • Location: Eastern Time Zone, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSat Aug 11, 2018 9:54 am

The manner of debating is technically faulty, obtuse, and misleading if not intentionally dishonest.

Fault #1:
Intentionally concocting the mere appearance that an opponent's statement is senseless, by lopping off the compelling end of his statement, thereby presenting unsuspecting readers with an incomplete thought (to artificially prop up an ego perhaps) fraudulently giving the mere *appearance* you have a more sensible argument. You. are. busted.

*Look here folks. I've italicized the complete thought, that Marc unwisely, craftily, yea even self-incriminatingly hacked. Watch this ploy:

Marc Wielage wrote:
Peter Benson wrote:That response suitable for the "Captain Obvious" character in some USA hotel chain's


That's not a truthful quote Marc.
But *this* is:
That response suitable for the "Captain Obvious" character in some USA hotel chain's commercials in no way negates the truth of what was advanced by myself above.



Fault #2: Misestimation of one's own accuracy
Marc Wielage wrote:Everything I said is still true.

That #sweepingeneralization of a statement about your assertions most *certainly* isn't true, especially as they're loaded with #strawmanargument schemes. Watch out for his usual sleight-of-hand folks...

Marc Weilage wrote: Spend more money, get better hardware, and you'll see better performance from Resolve.

Neither one of us denied that, so why change the subject from that which I rightly conveyed (that condescension against cost saving, wholly effective solutions with excellent performance characteristics doesn't sit well with some of us old farts, and newbies ought to beware of the fodder techno-elitist types spew forth, to dissuade them from thinking about cost-savings in designing their systems.

Fault #3: Endlessly *repeated* infractions involving sneaky use of #strawmanargument scheme

Marc Weilage wrote:Just because software is cheap (or even free) doesn't mean it works well with cheap equipment.


Neither of us made that ridiculous assertion. So you want your audience to pretend along with you, that I believe that? How fantastical and dishonest.

Fault #4 Another #strawman!? Tiresomely fraudulent.

Marc Weilage wrote:In truth, the computer and the software in a color room might be the cheapest investment in the room.

No kidding, Captain Obvious.

Fault #5: Pretend you've got the configuration in mind, that suits nearly every Resolve End user, regardless of the fact Resolve has increasingly become a toolbox, if you will, for multiple functions and disciplines in the media field, functions which some users only need 1 or 2 of, and...horrors -- they may not even take a *glance* at the COLOR page!

Fault #6 Here he goes again... He's got everyone's needs figured out. [Sighs!]

Marc Weilage wrote: It's the everything else that represents the biggest investment, particularly monitors, storage, control panels, plug-ins, and so on.
Not necessarily. That #sweepinggeneralization renders your statement faulty in a *host* of Davinci Resolve usage scenarios.

Fault #7 Esoteric treated as entry-level, compounded by postulating the need to spend into stratospheric endlessness, all in condescending elitist fantasyland:

Marc Weilage wrote:I would compare this to audio: you might spend $1000 on a Pro Tools or Fairlight system, then spend many, many thousands of dollars on acoustics, loudspeakers, mixing surface, microphones, preamps, outboard processors

I wouldn't touch enduser-abusive, NASDAQ-ejected AVID's NLE or DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) with a 10-foot pole. I have ProTools, for the purpose of telling the inquisitive snob:
"Oh yeah -- of *course* I have ProTools!" (But never use it, as it's comparably unstable relative to better designed competitors.).

And the possibility that *you* and some others might spend bigly like that, on acoustic treatments, mixing controllers, plugins and the like, most assuredly does not mean that creative systems integrators and endusers absolutely *have* to do so, in order to attain very similar workflow, audio monitoring and effects processing results, and the $499USD Softube Console One Mkii plugin/hardware control surface combo in use here and in a host of other even more desirable installations substantially applies here.

Marc Weilage wrote: ... it never ends.

Well, that's certainly true In the sense of posts that unrelentingly convey a misdirected disdain for outstanding performance attainable at incomparable cost savings and value.
Marc Weilage wrote:BMD's Config specs are a wealth of information, and they keep them fairly up to date.

Well done Sir, you've helped me prove my point.



ResolveStudio 14.3...014 | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | more...
Last edited by Peter Benson on Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DTV 10.9.7 > Kingston SD5000T > MiniMonitor > Bravia | Samsung U28D590 | DRS 14.3.0.014 | Win8.1 x64 | ASUS G751JL, i7-4720HQ, 24GB | GTX965M | 1TB HDD, 500GB EVO 850 SSD | MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2
Offline
User avatar

Jean Claude

  • Posts: 1601
  • Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:41 pm

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSat Aug 11, 2018 4:38 pm

stevelees wrote:I am using DR15 Beta, (have tried previous version as well) on a HP Z840 with 32GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro P4000, 2 x Xeon 8 Core CPUs with multi-threading and ultra fast HP SSD (3000MBs read/write).


Hi,
(a little late ...)
1/ as already said: test with a more powerful GPU if possible before buying. (a friend who has this GPU?)
2/ having quadro does not really bring more with Davinci Resolve. :oops:
Windows 10 PRO X64 1709 and 1803 | DaVinci Resolve Studio 14.3.0.014 | Fusion Studio 9.0.2 | Decklink Studio 4K 6G | Desktop Video 10.10.11
(I forgot about W7 Ultimate for over 4 years.) Sorry
Offline

wireless112

  • Posts: 37
  • Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:23 pm
  • Real Name: Jeremy Johnson

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSat Aug 11, 2018 5:03 pm

This thread got off the rails from the OP's initial question.

The bottom line is this - the cheaper software becomes, the more coders rely upon hardware to overcome inefficiency in the code. Inefficiency that is simply impossible to correct at this price point.
Unfortunately it seems as if even the extreme systems us enthusiasts are building, aren't quite enough. My own system could have better GPU's, but it works for me. I can wait for things to finish. But they have to finish which is something that hasn't been happening lately either.

As long as the industry prefers Avid and pays more for it, it will have a stronger code to perform better. As long as Adobe can keep making it work for the relatively peanuts it charges every month, it will be more efficient on hardware resources as well.

BMD is doing a phenomenal job for what it's charging.

My concern here is that this attempt to pull it all under one software product is going to cause things to break that the professionals just don't have time for. I am truly regretting participating in this beta, but don't in any way blame BMD for the issues I have been having. If I would have just stuck with 14, and used Adobe for the things that 14 can't do, I'd have been done with my project already. It's all on me.
Jeremy

System Build -
Gigabyte Designare EX
Threadripper 1950X
32 GB of DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800)
2- XFX R7 370 GPU's 2GB version
1- Decklink Mini Monitor 4K - Driver 10.11
1 - Win 10 Pro for WS - Version 1803 - Build 17134.191
Resolve Studio 15 B8
Offline
User avatar

Jean Claude

  • Posts: 1601
  • Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:41 pm

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSat Aug 11, 2018 5:05 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:.../...
BMD's Config specs are a wealth of information, and they keep them fairly up to date.

+1
Windows 10 PRO X64 1709 and 1803 | DaVinci Resolve Studio 14.3.0.014 | Fusion Studio 9.0.2 | Decklink Studio 4K 6G | Desktop Video 10.10.11
(I forgot about W7 Ultimate for over 4 years.) Sorry
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 3936
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSat Aug 11, 2018 6:03 pm

wireless112 wrote:This thread got off the rails from the OP's initial question.

The bottom line is this - the cheaper software becomes, the more coders rely upon hardware to overcome inefficiency in the code. Inefficiency that is simply impossible to correct at this price point.
Unfortunately it seems as if even the extreme systems us enthusiasts are building, aren't quite enough. My own system could have better GPU's, but it works for me. I can wait for things to finish. But they have to finish which is something that hasn't been happening lately either.
.


Well- it's not really true. Many expensive apps are actually not very well written at all and this is why they do need good hardware :D There is also issue with relying on very old code (like Adobe did for long time and also Autodesk with Flame).
Most optimised NLE out there is probably Edius which was originally written by Canopus. Unfortunately recently many different owners didn't follow well Canopus, so it slightly drifted. It still fastest NLE out there ( FCP X should be also fast). Its internal filters (even if not many) are very well written and optimised.
Offline
User avatar

Peter Benson

  • Posts: 180
  • Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:12 pm
  • Location: Eastern Time Zone, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSat Aug 11, 2018 7:18 pm

Fair enough.
-[Re]Pete

ResolveStudio 14.3...014 | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | more...
×
Last edited by Peter Benson on Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DTV 10.9.7 > Kingston SD5000T > MiniMonitor > Bravia | Samsung U28D590 | DRS 14.3.0.014 | Win8.1 x64 | ASUS G751JL, i7-4720HQ, 24GB | GTX965M | 1TB HDD, 500GB EVO 850 SSD | MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2
Offline
User avatar

Peter Benson

  • Posts: 180
  • Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:12 pm
  • Location: Eastern Time Zone, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSat Aug 11, 2018 7:20 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
wireless112 wrote:This thread got off the rails from the OP's initial question.

The bottom line is this - the cheaper software becomes, the more coders rely upon hardware to overcome inefficiency in the code. Inefficiency that is simply impossible to correct at this price point.
Unfortunately it seems as if even the extreme systems us enthusiasts are building, aren't quite enough. My own system could have better GPU's, but it works for me. I can wait for things to finish. But they have to finish which is something that hasn't been happening lately either.
.


Well- it's not really true. Many expensive apps are actually not very well written at all and this is why they do need good hardware :D There is also issue with relying on very old code (like Adobe did for long time and also Autodesk with Flame).
Most optimised NLE out there is probably Edius which was originally written by Canopus. Unfortunately recently many different owners didn't follow well Canopus, so it slightly drifted. It still fastest NLE out there ( FCP X should be also fast). Its internal filters (even if not many) are very well written and optimised.
+1

ResolveStudio 14.3...014 | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | more...
DTV 10.9.7 > Kingston SD5000T > MiniMonitor > Bravia | Samsung U28D590 | DRS 14.3.0.014 | Win8.1 x64 | ASUS G751JL, i7-4720HQ, 24GB | GTX965M | 1TB HDD, 500GB EVO 850 SSD | MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2
Offline
User avatar

Marc Wielage

  • Posts: 4473
  • Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:46 am
  • Location: Hollywood, USA

Re: Just how much grunt do I need?

PostSun Aug 12, 2018 12:19 am

Peter Benson wrote:The manner of debating is technically faulty, obtuse, and misleading if not intentionally dishonest.

The great thing about the internet is that somebody can ask for free advice on the internet and get an answer. Whether you like the answer isn't necessarily the point, but in this case, I think the advice is still true. No doubt, there is always some subjective opinion here, but that's what you get on an open forum.

But it doesn't make the advice wrong: you do need hefty hardware to get great performance out of Resolve. You can get by with less hardware provided you make compromises in the way you work. BMD's config specs are an excellent place to start.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood

Return to DaVinci Resolve

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bennjoell, Frederic Granier, Ian Henderson, Pekka Hietanen and 41 guests