Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

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carsonjones

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Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 1:12 am

So... lots of users have been requesting a full screen 'monitor' for their second display and what I think people really want is a full screen 'viewer' for their second displays. I'm definitely one of those people.
Ideally it can be toggled on and off while in the dual display config. Is there any good reason at all why BM haven't already made this available to users? If so I think it should be clarified once and for all.

Don't need a monitor just need a full screen viewer on the second display.

FOLLOW UP: As an afterthought, if the reason for not including this is because of fears it will diminish sales of the Decklink card?... I'd happily pay an extra $195 for a proper Studio version that included this feature.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 3:14 am

The only way to correctly color footage is to get it out of the OS path. So a Intensity Card will drive a monitor full display from Resolve. I use both inputs of the monitor and make it an extended GUI monitor when not using it for output preview.
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Peter Benson

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 5:03 am

sacherjj wrote:The only way to correctly color footage is to get it out of the OS path. So a Intensity Card will drive a monitor full display from Resolve. I use both inputs of the monitor and make it an extended GUI monitor when not using it for output preview.
+1

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Marc Wielage

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 7:59 am

carsonjones wrote:So... lots of users have been requesting a full screen 'monitor' for their second display and what I think people really want is a full screen 'viewer' for their second displays. I'm definitely one of those people. Ideally it can be toggled on and off while in the dual display config. Is there any good reason at all why BM haven't already made this available to users? If so I think it should be clarified once and for all.

It's amazing how often this comes up, even though it's covered in the manual.

Read page 1885 of the Resolve 15 manual: "Limitations When Grading With the Viewer on a Computer Display." This goes into some detail why you cannot accurately monitor directly from the computer and operating system. You have to have a color-managed output, like one from a Blackmagic display card, preferably on a calibrated external Rec709 display.

You can be cynical and say: "well, BMD is just doing this to drive the sale of video cards." But the truth is, it is best to use a color-managed output from the computer because then you'll know for a fact that the operating system can't change the monitor output.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 8:19 am

And other, much more costly systems do the same.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 8:39 am

If the monitor is calibrated and results tell you that it is calibrated properly, then it is either good or you don't trust your calibration device. In which case why do you trust the path through display card? There is no magic involved, if calibrator tells you it is good, it is good, this is the only actual fact that matters. If you mess up your system using drivers or whatnot and throw the image data path off, too bad, then you have to recalibrate. But taking it as a given that one path is good and other is bad has no grounding in reality.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 8:57 am

You are right. Problem with Resolve is that it's not easily achievable and there is no way to have clean 2nd monitor full screen GUI preview at all.
It easily can be done in eg. Scratch (which should be color accurate and 10bit on pro card).
For Resolve atm. you better of using BM card.
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Thomas Milde

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 11:19 am

Couldn't there just be a switch/menu entry to choose to which display CTRL-F sends your fullscreen?
Thinking further, something like Fusion, where you can send a node to different views just by number keys...
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 12:35 pm

Seems to me that we have a 'worlds colliding' situation here. I'm from the world of retouching, compositing, CGI, and now video. I've been calibrating my displays accurately for a very long time now. I trust that what I'm seeing on my display is accurate based on the calibration and verification (Xrite). Also, any video work I'm doing is for online / mobile viewing. Frankly I'd prefer to put my video in the Adobe RGB 1998 world and not in the Rec 709 world but let's roll with Rec 709 if need be.

So... my calibrated displays show me accurate colours in virtually every other app I use (including within the OS) and some Resolve users seem to think it's impossible for a modern graphics card / modern OS / and modern app / and calibrated system to show me accurate colour of a video in a 'viewer' that doesn't require extra hardware or a dedicated monitor. Add to this the idea that I would like the choice to not care about 'The only way to correctly color footage is to get it out of the OS path' approach. I don't come from the traditional grading background and frankly just want the option to place a full screen 'viewer' (not monitor) on my second display. Why so much push-back about this? I get it... some people and likely BM feel that the only accurate way to grade is with a dedicated monitor running through a separate output card. I'm not going to disagree if it will put that argument to bed. I'll say it again and again and again... I would like the option to have a full screen viewer on a second or third or fourth, etc. display.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 12:47 pm

These claims are simply a myth coming mainly from people who try to convince you that as a single man company you can't provide services at certain level (which meant to be restricted for big companies). I have very different opinion about it and I did worked for small places and big boys.
Still with Resolve you are better of atm. buying BM card then fighting its obstacles in this area.
It's not like it can't be done (it can- whole print operates this way and produce as color accurate content as video industry)- just not in Resolve atm.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 1:00 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:These claims are simply a myth.


Andrew do you mind clarifying and elaborating on this for the sake of the discussion? I think this debate needs to be had. Resolve has a very broad-reaching user base where users are outputting to cinema and television while others are only interested in posting to the web / mobile. Lot's of users in between I'm sure. Regardless, neither point of view (IMO) negates the idea of allowing for a full screen viewer on a second display.
Last edited by carsonjones on Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 1:03 pm

I already did many times. Search for my threads. I explained exactly why GPU preview is as good or better than SDI card one. It's all down to particular app design- if it meant to give correct GUI preview or not.


viewtopic.php?f=21&t=62633&hilit#p355220

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=62633&hilit#p355310

I would be happy to pay even 500$ for accurate GUI 2nd full screen preview in Resolve, instead of buying BM card for 500$. Even BM would be on + at the end (no need to manufacture card and development is done once) :D It can always be add-on license.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 2:32 pm

BM Video output card is $149. I/O card is $199. Display that can accurately display color and be linear about it is much, much more.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 2:41 pm

This is why I said I can pay even 500$ :)
200$ buys you card with limitations (eg. 422 only, no 50p etc). GPU preview has way more possibilities.
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Rick van den Berg

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 2:50 pm

I would like to have full screen multicam playback (in the edit page) on a seperate monitor. A must for certain projects when there's a director next to me and want to see all the angles. its a common workflow when i use avid, or (a bit less common) with premiere. but it is possible to set it up.

i cant figure out how to do this is resolve. is it possible? i have a decklink mini monitor and a 4k extreme card.

edit: so no color grading intentions, just editing, its no problem to output from an extra blackmagic card, as long as its showing all the different angles.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 4:03 pm

Rick van den Berg wrote:I would like to have full screen multicam playback (in the edit page) on a seperate monitor. A must for certain projects when there's a director next to me and want to see all the angles.


This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about also. Resolve ties our hands behind our backs and we're not able to use the app in a more flexible and often necessary way. As far as I can tell, based on modern app capabilities and recent / current hardware, there is no good reason for not allowing for it other than that it hasn't been implemented yet.

Driving the point home again... this is for viewing not monitoring.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 6:18 pm

carsonjones wrote:Driving the point home again... this is for viewing not monitoring.

^---- what he said! Toggling with Ctrl-F is a pain, just let us run full-screen on one of the monitors. I can do this with Fusion by clicking the third button on a node and it works really well -- so why not Resolve?
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 8:04 pm

I'll add to the point as well!

There are a number benefits to going full screen on the edit tab, that have nothing to do with grading!

This is one of things that truly annoys the crap out of me about Resolve, and I Have a studio licence.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 8:50 pm

I'd add that this is really starting to be a limiting factor in Resolve.

IMO, Resolve's GUI is of the IDE flavor, but do to its complexity BM should really consider adding some of the truly high end enhancements, specifically Independent sub-panes.

For those that are not familiar with this style interface, its primary benefit is it allows the user to layout the interface as they see fit across any number of screens. The user just drags the interface element where they want it to reside, and resize it as they see fit. Some applications remember the layout for future sessions, some don't.

For example lets assume you have 3 screens, one possible set up for the edit tab would be as follows.

screen 1:
  • Media pull - fills the left 2/3rds of the screen
  • Effects Library - fills the remaining 1/3

screen 2:
  • Timeline - fills the bottom half of the screen
  • Metadata fills the top left 1/4
  • inspector fills the top right 1/4

screen 3:
  • full screen viewer

This type of functionality already exists within Resolve. Scopes for example, can be un-docked from the primary interface and dragged wherever you want them.
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Daz Wood

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostWed Aug 15, 2018 9:10 pm

Yes it would be nice to have a floating window like in Fairlight or full screen on 2nd monitor not too bothered about it being in the colour grading tab but it would be very nice in the edit tab.
Thank you

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 3:34 am

I also think there needs to be a bit more flexibility from Blackmagic in this area.
I have no doubt that using dedicated hardware is superior and the "correct" way of doing things, but not everyone needs or wants that level of accuracy.

It seems to me that Davinci Resolve is in a bit of an identity crisis. It seems to be rooted in professional broadcast production, which is great, but it is also becoming more and more popular with "non-professionals". People who want an alternative to adobe, and people who are making youtube videos etc..
And having a free version has been a great way to attract that user base. I really applaud BMD for this approach. However it also comes with a need for a bit of flexibility in workflow. Not everyone is trying to edit a hollywood film.
As a fairly new user of the software, personally I love it. But it can be quite frustrating sometimes when you can't achieve something which seems quite basic (like arrange the workspace or have a viewer on separate monitor), just because it is not the way its done in professional production studios.

Surely having the option to do things both ways would be a solution which benefits everyone?
Professional editors know that they should use dedicated hardware.
The rest of us just want an easy way to improve our workflow.

Hopefully BMD will eventually incorporate this functionality. To be fair, they must be super busy working on integrating fusion properly. That's a very ambitious project.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 5:35 am

Agreed, this feature has been available forever in other editing programs. I bought the studio version along with a Blackmagic preview card but sometimes I just need preview to a secondary computer monitor during the editing. We already have full screen preview just allow us to place it on the second monitor instead of it appearing over the timeline.

And here's an idea... only offer this functionality in the paid version which should increase sales and make everyone happy. Go ahead an disable it if you must when in the color page and no one will grade with it on.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 5:45 am

Hendrik Proosa wrote:If the monitor is calibrated and results tell you that it is calibrated properly, then it is either good or you don't trust your calibration device. In which case why do you trust the path through display card?

You gotta trust something. Whenever I'm not sure at the start of a session, I don't have a problem popping up a 50% gray screen and then SMPTE bars just to give me an idea of what I'm seeing. Somehow, this has gotten me through almost 40 years of post production, and I'm still standing.

The o.p. asked for opinions -- we gave you opinions. Don't complain that you don't like the opinions. Go and do what you think is right. We already told you what works for us and what the manual says. If you disagree, please, drive off a cliff or fly to Mars, whatever makes you happy.

carsonjones wrote:
Rick van den Berg wrote:I would like to have full screen multicam playback (in the edit page) on a seperate monitor. A must for certain projects when there's a director next to me and want to see all the angles.

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about also. Resolve ties our hands behind our backs and we're not able to use the app in a more flexible and often necessary way. As far as I can tell, based on modern app capabilities and recent / current hardware, there is no good reason for not allowing for it other than that it hasn't been implemented yet.

Driving the point home again... this is for viewing not monitoring.

For Resolve's purposes, viewing IS monitoring. It's a question of semantics. You can fight and fight and fight all you want, but this is how the program is designed. Sure, for casual use you can just have a 2-up display and work with dual GUIs and live with that.

Image

But -- as I pictured above -- there are plenty of editors, colorists, and VFX people who always like having a "hero" display that they can trust. The other advantage is the graphics card takes a bit of the load off the computer itself, which helps real-time playback (assuming the graphics card is reasonably powered).

If you disagree and want to work a different way, there's 9 other programs out there you can use that have overlapping features and give you some (but not all) of Resolve's features. But at some point, you have to use the program the way it was designed and not try to bend it to your way of thinking. Consider a more Zen approach of fighting the program less and accepting its design philosophy, and see if you can adapt over time. Trust me, I've used programs far more ornery and limited than Resolve (11 different color correction programs in 35 years), and Resolve is actually fairly flexible -- particularly with a control surface and macros.
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Rick van den Berg

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 7:28 am

well it was not my intention to be part of that ''classic'' full screen reference discussion.

Rick van den Berg wrote:I would like to have full screen multicam playback (in the edit page) on a seperate monitor. i cant figure out how to do this is resolve. is it possible? i have a decklink mini monitor and a 4k extreme card.

edit: so no color grading intentions, just editing, its no problem to output from an extra blackmagic card, as long as its showing all the different angles.
'

what i meant was just an extra multicam reference. no final/hero image. i would happily buy a third decklink if that would be the solution.

and believe me, my middle name is zen.

but i guess the answer is no ^^
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 11:31 am

Marc Wielage wrote: If you disagree, please, drive off a cliff or fly to Mars, whatever makes you happy.

I wondered how long it would take for you to start responding in your typical I'm a 'professional' self important way!

Marc Wielage wrote:If you disagree and want to work a different way, there's 9 other programs out there you can use that have overlapping features and give you some (but not all) of Resolve's features. But at some point, you have to use the program the way it was designed and not try to bend it to your way of thinking.

Applications evolve Marc, even if you don't like it or want them to!


Rick van den Berg wrote:but i guess the answer is no ^^

The answer isn't no.

It's just the unfortunate fact that the DR community has a few curmudgeons that take a dump on anything that doesn't align with their personal ideology!
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 1:43 pm

I truly believe this will happen at some point. In Resolve’s former life as strictly a CC system, there was no reason for this functionality. But with it’s evolution to an editing system, functionality for editing has continually been added. With the addition of the Fairlight module, sound engineers and musicians don’t need color accurate viewing, but they do need a large monitor to see what’s happening in the video. In a shared environment not every station needs what a colorist needs.

Resolve will continue to evolve to meet the needs of it’s users.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 1:49 pm

Exactly.
Forget how Resolve looked 3 or 5 or 10 years ago. It's very different app now. It needs to continue adapting to current users' needs. Even Autodesk gave up with Flame's "old functionality" and restriction and changed a lot (like 10bit GUI preview). It's either this or in few years you will be gone. It hurts when old functionality which was good and reliable gets removed, but this is not the case for Resolve.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 2:47 pm

A viewer doesn't need to be used as a colour critical reference monitor. That's not what I'm after and in my original post that's clearly not what I was after. The continued option to include a 'proper' reference monitor in your Resolve workflow absolutely doesn't need to be removed from the equation.

Adding an option for users that will allow them to use one of their other computer displays as a full screen viewer (or advanced viewer that includes added functionality - like a full screen multicam preview) does not make Resolve a lesser app. IMO this would modernize it because of the added UI flexibility and adaptability to varying workflows.

Frankly I'm not interested in old and on-going arguments about a viewer vs a monitor. That misses the point entirely. Keep the monitor option (add'l hardware card / dedicated monitor) and add the ability to use another computer display as a flexible 'viewer'.

Ps. Marc I'm pretty new to the forums as you can see from the number of posts I've made. Take it easy please. Advising other people here to 'jump off a cliff' is pretty rude and absolutely uncalled for. There's no need for meanness or basically telling people to go kill themselves. Super inappropriate.

The idea here is to debate / discuss / ask questions / share ideas / trouble shoot / and make feature requests. Also, viewing in Resolve is not the same as monitoring. Resolve's viewer mode doesn't show up on your 'monitor'.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 5:32 pm

Nobe Display is a virtual display plugin that works with DaVinci Resolve™.
The main purpose of the application is to mirror the preview and allow to
place it anywhere in your desktop. It enables you to have a picture preview
in the external monitor without using extra hardware.

https://timeinpixels.com/nobe-display/

https://timeinpixels.com/nobe-display-faq/



Last edited by Ole Kristiansen on Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 5:47 pm

Thanks for the tip Ole - appreciated. This might be a good temporary workaround and something I'll test out in the next day or two for sure. That said, it would still be best if this was part of the native functionality in Resolve.

Thanks again
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 5:58 pm

carsonjones wrote:Advising other people here to 'jump off a cliff' is pretty rude and absolutely uncalled for.


Not very technical, either. I'm sure it was the AderolTM talking.

Or just a symptom of general social media/mob fatigue -- Twenty four hours do not go by without a new thread of "how do I bend this thing to my will without any investment on my part?"

I use the full-screen Command-F quite a bit for refining elements of a node correction -- tweaking a vignette/Window, looking for jitter, assessing moire, stabilization... it's there, just not in a place that gives you the full UI, for which frankly, the existence of Control Panels is the work-around. Probably cost more than a BMD card. At the moment, my bet would be that the application is used by far more media manipulators than dedicated-as-credited colorists. Really, it used to be 100% about grading. As it is, probably not even 20% -- the past couple of months or so, if memory serves correct, a contributor asked the question if maybe it would've been a better idea to develop Resolve as a stand-alone color corrector. Aside- did anyone else see the Colbert/millenial gag where he introduced the "phone booth" to a young woman and in the course of the sketch had her deliver a phone conversation of antiquity -- at one point the phrase "facing Jerry" came up and she asked "Jerry, --- Seinfeld?" It broke him up. You can date yourself in general if you don't get the joke.

Ultimately, it's about getting to the truth. Doing no harm. Not screwing your client. Auchgghhh.... I've got work to do.

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 6:16 pm

JPOwens wrote:I use the full-screen Command-F quite a bit for refining elements of a node correction -- tweaking a vignette/Window, looking for jitter, assessing moire, stabilization... it's there, just not in a place that gives you the full UI, for which frankly, the existence of Control Panels is the work-around. Probably cost more than a BMD card. At the moment, my bet would be that the application is used by far more media manipulators than dedicated-as-credited colorists. Really, it used to be 100% about grading. As it is, probably not even 20%

jPo, CSI


I'm also using the full screen Command F / Shift F / Alt F regularly and it's handy to be sure. I'm also coming from a world where I'm one of the media manipulators you refer to. I've been colour correcting / grading commercial stills for over 15 years for print and web. Resolve was an obvious extension of this for me now that the demand for online / mobile video has ramped up.

It seems we're seeing the same kind of push-back from professional colourists now as we (retouchers) saw years back from the Print houses. Things evolved and we're all better off for it IMO.

Truth be told, I really don't see why or how my feature request, let's call it, is such a far fetched idea for some existing users.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 6:16 pm

carsonjones wrote:
Frankly I'm not interested in old and on-going arguments about a viewer vs a monitor. That misses the point entirely. Keep the monitor option (add'l hardware card / dedicated monitor) and add the ability to use another computer display as a flexible 'viewer'.


Well- exactly. I don't insist on accuracy. There can be accurate view or one which is not. As long as user is aware of its limitations it will be useful.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 6:18 pm

Ole Kristiansen wrote:Nobe Display is a virtual display plugin that works with DaVinci Resolve™.
The main purpose of the application is to mirror the preview and allow to
place it anywhere in your desktop. It enables you to have a picture preview
in the external monitor without using extra hardware.

https://timeinpixels.com/nobe-display/

https://timeinpixels.com/nobe-display-faq/





Very cool and simple plugin.
I assume this can be expanded to be even color accurate (and 10bit). It seems to already involving into this direction. Now you cans hook it up to NDI standard and you have fairly decent preview in whole company over network :)
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 12:29 am

Downloaded and am testing the Nobe Display OFX plugin. So far so good. Again it would be best to have this as native functionality within Resolve but as a workaround it's a great option. Thanks for making this Ole. Much appreciated and based on my testing so far I'd definitely recommend it to others looking for a full screen Resolve viewer on their second display.

https://timeinpixels.com/nobe-display/
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 6:21 am

carsonjones wrote:Ps. Marc I'm pretty new to the forums as you can see from the number of posts I've made. Take it easy please. Advising other people here to 'jump off a cliff' is pretty rude and absolutely uncalled for. There's no need for meanness or basically telling people to go kill themselves. Super inappropriate.

It's intended as humor, not literally as a threat or insult. My intention is not to be rude, but to actually answer the question. This is a philosophical issue, not so much a technological one: it's a question of using the program as it was designed. There are always ways of dealing with it, but whether you like the options available is outside my control. I'm just saying: if you want to edit (or color correct or do VFX) with 2 x GUI displays and a hero display, you need to buy a BMD display card. The cheap ones are under $150, which to me is a trivial expense, plus it does give you advantages not found in using the computer's own displays.

It's fair to say that Resolve is not for everyone, and there are aspects of Resolve that are daunting and intimidating. Any program that ships with a 2632-page manual is going to be imposing to new users, but there's a wealth of experience here on the group. Don't dismiss the answers because you don't like or agree with the person giving them. As Neil DeGrasse-Tyson often says: "science doesn't care what you believe." The facts are facts, and the program isn't designed to give you lots and lots of viewers without additional display cards.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 6:32 am

Marc Wielage wrote:It's intended as humor, not literally as a threat or insult. My intention is not to be rude, but to actually answer the question. This is a philosophical issue, not so much a technological one: it's a question of using the program as it was designed.

This forum would empty quite fast if everyone who requested new features started driving off the clill, literally or not, because Resolve 15 feature request thread is 12 pages long :) I guess everyone there are dumbusers who don't understand the design.

Marc Wielage wrote:It's fair to say that Resolve is not for everyone, and there are aspects of Resolve that are daunting and intimidating. Any program that ships with a 2632-page manual is going to be imposing to new users, but there's a wealth of experience here on the group. Don't dismiss the answers because you don't like or agree with the person giving them. As Neil DeGrasse-Tyson often says: "science doesn't care what you believe." The facts are facts, and the program isn't designed to give you lots and lots of viewers without additional display cards.

Science doesn't care what people think about software design or goblins sprinkling magic dust onto images inside grading panels or output cards which makes them superior. This is why it is a feature request, to change the "design". There is nothing in Resolve that prevents adding fullscreen output to second monitor tomorrow and even the 2632 pages of manual don't help here.

PS. Whats with that manual length worshipping? It could be 10000 pages, would it make it a better manual?
I do stuff.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 9:27 am

Hendrik Proosa wrote:
Marc Wielage wrote:It's intended as humor, not literally as a threat or insult. My intention is not to be rude, but to actually answer the question. This is a philosophical issue, not so much a technological one: it's a question of using the program as it was designed.

This forum would empty quite fast if everyone who requested new features started driving off the clill, literally or not, because Resolve 15 feature request thread is 12 pages long :) I guess everyone there are dumbusers who don't understand the design.



+1
If there are so many people wishing for change it means design doesn't suits people needs and should be re-looked. Other solution- people use different software. In reality this is exactly what happens: either one or another. If a company is not following people's needs they move away. If software is designed some way it doesn't mean it has to stay this way and implying that it does is just an "excuse". People will demand more and more- this is normal, specially where they were given a way of providing their requests.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 12:02 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:...if you want to edit (or color correct or do VFX) with 2 x GUI displays and a hero display, you need to buy a BMD display card. The cheap ones are under $150, which to me is a trivial expense, plus it does give you advantages not found in using the computer's own displays.



Seems we'll have to agree to disagree on this. On my workstation I'm also retouching, compositing, 3D modelling and animating, and working on video. It's all part of the modern media mix that's quickly becoming the new norm. While I specialize in certain areas of post production I'm also a generalist in others. When projects require it I have access to a roster of talent to bring in as specialists. All of this to say that, at least in the commercial advertising arena, things are changing rapidly. This means our tools are likely going to adapt and evolve to accommodate. A feature request that aims to push the apps we're using in a helpful direction, based on how we're using the apps or would like to use the apps, is something that I think is beneficial for many involved. Again... adding this particular feature (flexible viewer for multi-display workstations / PC's) does not mean removing the ability to use Resolve the way you've been using it.

Also, given that BM have added Editing, Fairlight, and Fusion to Resolve demonstrates clearly that the software is changing to adapt to the needs of it's customer base (or target base). A flexible viewer (again not reference monitor), that can be made full screen on a secondary display, is something I think would be incredibly helpful and that I think is something many users want.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 3:22 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Hendrik Proosa wrote:
Marc Wielage wrote:It's intended as humor, not literally as a threat or insult. My intention is not to be rude, but to actually answer the question. This is a philosophical issue, not so much a technological one: it's a question of using the program as it was designed.

This forum would empty quite fast if everyone who requested new features started driving off the clill, literally or not, because Resolve 15 feature request thread is 12 pages long :) I guess everyone there are dumbusers who don't understand the design.



+1
If there are so many people wishing for change it means design doesn't suits people needs and should be re-looked. Other solution- people use different software. In reality this is exactly what happens: either one or another. If a company is not following people's needs they move away. If software is designed some way it doesn't mean it has to stay this way and implying that it does is just an "excuse". People will demand more and more- this is normal, specially where they were given a way of providing their requests.


As usual Mark can't see past his own personal use case. What if you have 3 or 4 monitors plus a "hero" display? As of right now you can't use more than 2 of your monitors.

stuff like this exists for a reason.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 4:12 pm

More in general about user requests etc just my (probably useless ) 2 cents.
The cool thing about BM is that they listen to users while at the same time see if it makes sense in their design philosophy and balance the pros and cons spit out on the forum by long term and new users.
I am for one extremely glad (x100000000000) that they do not blindly follow every users request for a function they absolutely need because their favorite other program (x) has it . It was one of the reasons i fell in love with Resolve.
Personally and likely Marc (correct me if i am wrong ) and lots of other long time users , i am getting sick and tired of the avalanche of users (mainly since DR14 started to open up to a new audience, with obviously different views on what they need and want from Resolve) that want to turn an in our (biased for sure) eyes very great and effective more static in nature gui design principle that worked and still works so well into a train-wreck of an inconsistent and brain farts inducing design like for example adobe premiere.
Every time i am forced to open premiere (at gunpoint) i have to clean my screen of my stomach content followed by fighting a headache (and instinct to put a drill into my head like in the amazing cult movie PI) with the billions of floating windows so always searching for the tool i need at that point in time . Clickclickclicketyclick dragdrag open close tab here tab there mindless until i finally think i have it only to find that part of that function is yet in another hidden floating window.

So i tend to sometimes fight ( with arguments where possible or just biased personal feelings) to make sure we dont slowly end up in that mess just to satisfy every tom dick and harry. Users will never be happy anyway. Thats the nature of us users
I can easily with zero risks bet 100000000000 euros (or dollars for the US boys and girls ) that when BM gives us eventually the full screen non color correct gui, one second later the forum fills with complains from users about it not beeing color correct and why their render does not look like what they saw on the screen and that BM sucks. Likely even the same ones that now say they are happy with just a viewer. (current forum posts that want the existing viewer to be color correct and issues with renders not matching viewer output probably go over 100 easily) .

Are we bad people to want to keep the software we love and use to remain great and sometimes fight back a bit on yet another gui change request just because people want to mold it in their way of working ? Maybe , but i dont think so .
Is there room for improvement . Always. Specially on the non-color pages. As the color page design principles , like we already have seen since DR14 , does not hold on edit/fairlight/fusion where you dont need everything to always be at the same place all the time as you would in color.
We see BM fighting to balance a clear consistency between the pages with different gui requirements. Its the downside of multiple programs in one. DAW gui's for example have generally very different design requirements then color , so i dont envy BM in getting it right. Its a gradual process balancing the users feedback.

Lastly , I personally dont need (as just put in a brainless 100 euro expense to get a device that gives me that color correct already a few years ago) but would not mind a floating full screen window to satisfy the editors around us (just before you think i oppose that, which i dont). As long as it does not negatively affect anything else (like performance ) and can be switched on/off.

Anyway, probably should have put a TLDR disclaimer at the beginning.
My 2 cents on this ever evolving and never ending subject.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 4:29 pm

Only need one simple option. “Select target display for shift/cnt/alt-F function”.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 4:37 pm

Hendrik Proosa wrote:If you mess up your system using drivers or whatnot and throw the image data path off, too bad, then you have to recalibrate. But taking it as a given that one path is good and other is bad has no grounding in reality.


Sorry but no. Has been discussed so many times and there are some arguments that make sense but this one is not one of those.
Lets say following your reasoning, you have your chain with some crap in your path (be it drivers, OS , whatever) and you calibrate your monitor around it so it looks good anyway and your calibrator says : "all good mate".
Then you render and , hey that is strange, wtf, why does my render does not look like i expected it. Thats because resolve wont correct for all the mess in your chain.
So if you take a not modified output from Resolve using their devices , directly into your monitor , then you know that if you have that correctly calibrated and it looks good, it will match your renders. Thats the whole idea. The more stuff in your path the more risks. Its possible to get it correct for sure and has been discussed at length a billion times, but that is not your argument. If you have crap in your chain all bets are off.
Similar argument goes for having outboard scopes directly in your chain so you seen what goes on there (hurray for scopebox !!).

But as mentioned before , i have no problem with a not intended to be 100% correct extra full screen viewer window, which is the original posters request.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 4:56 pm

Glenn Venghaus wrote:why does my render does not look like i expected it.


+1
And soon, it will be necessary to integrate the ICC profiles of windows ... :)
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 5:03 pm

Glenn Venghaus wrote:
Hendrik Proosa wrote:If you mess up your system using drivers or whatnot and throw the image data path off, too bad, then you have to recalibrate. But taking it as a given that one path is good and other is bad has no grounding in reality.


Sorry but no. Has been discussed so many times and there are some arguments that make sense but this one is not one of those.
Lets say following your reasoning, you have your chain with some crap in your path (be it drivers, OS , whatever) and you calibrate your monitor around it so it looks good anyway and your calibrator says : "all good mate".
Then you render and , hey that is strange, wtf, why does my render does not look like i expected it. Thats because resolve wont correct for all the mess in your chain.


You are sort of "wrong".
If you have correct preview from Resolve (regardless if it's over BM or GUI) then this is all what you need.
Rendered file will look fine when brought to back to Resolve (assuming Resolve didn't mess it). Then if you play this file with different players etc. and it looks different then it's totally irrelevant. Having BM card preview or not makes no difference to this problem.
The whole OS messing with colors is related to something which is not designed to be color accurate. If it's designed this way then there is no real problem with different drivers etc. Whole print industry relies on such a solution.
I'm really tired people repeating same crap- "it's not proper video chain, it's not YUV, you need YUV, you need SDI to have proper video signal, GPU can't ever be accurate...." All nonsense.
All what Resolve needs to do it pass "final RGB" pixels from GPU (where it creates them) to DP or HDMI to the display. Use OpenGL technology which gives you full control (make sure full screen preview is an independent surface) and if display is calibrated you have perfect preview. Add forcing proper refresh rate based on project setting (+Vsync to lock refresh rate ) and you have also perfectly timed and synced video without tearing or jittering.
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 6:11 pm

Is there a windows equivalent?


Ole Kristiansen wrote:Nobe Display is a virtual display plugin that works with DaVinci Resolve™.
The main purpose of the application is to mirror the preview and allow to
place it anywhere in your desktop. It enables you to have a picture preview
in the external monitor without using extra hardware.

https://timeinpixels.com/nobe-display/

https://timeinpixels.com/nobe-display-faq/



Thank you

Daz
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 6:21 pm

Have you looked at their website?
People seems to be so lazy these days.
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Daz Wood

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 6:28 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Have you looked at their website?
People seems to be so lazy these days.


Oh didn't notice first time round, that's what you get for having dyslexia :oops:
Last edited by Daz Wood on Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thank you

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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 7:45 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:If you have correct preview from Resolve (regardless if it's over BM or GUI) then this is all what you need.

I must admit , i switched off after that statement. if you truely believe that. As i also dont believe anymore in the toothferry. (Unless you mean some virtual yet non existent/implemented correct output to the preview window)
And for the rest, Very few are interested anymore after all the endless discussions in what is technicaly theoreticaly possible ( i am sure everything you say is technicaly possible and i never said it was not) , but if it is just not implemented in the software you use as such , why bother......
Feel free to fight and calibrate the preview window and if it works for you i am super happy for you.
Why keep squeezing a round object in a square hole because you can. If even the people that build the software say you should not.
I just stick with a plug and play , set and forget sollution recommended by BM that always works regardless of what other programs do or what is technicaly possible.
Maybe in DR20 they do it diffrent but atm its not. So when giving new users advice , just stick with the current possibilities otherwise you just set them up for disapointments.

Ps reminds me of the nightmare when Bm implemented a setting on osx to use osx colorspace for the viewer and activated it by defaukt. Probably also a hundred or so posts of people that trusted their viewer.......
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Re: Full Screen 'Viewer' on second display...

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 8:17 pm

Every new release of Resolve brings in a new crop of people to beat this dead horse. It's not enough that you get 95% of the program for free, that Decklink pricing is modest as can be and that a professional color grading application is unlikely to offer a monitoring option which invites error and is outside standard practice and norms in the industry.

So look forward to years more of it?
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