Blackmagic Forum

AndreasOberg wrote:Some questions about Decklink. Can you use that monitor for other programs like Photoshop or?
What is a normal configuration?

Not any but definitely lots of programs allow you to drive it . Photoshop not but more typical video related apps do.
I used it even on Nuke and protools for direct fs video output. Several ingest dailies tools, video player apps etc etc.
And if you smart use multiple monitor inputs (like another user also described in an earlier post) you can softswitch between different inputs and use a singe monitor even more efficiently. I have a 3 monitor setup but feels like a 5 by smart switching this way.

John Paines wrote:Andrew, I think you overvalue your influence with the company.... Just joking, of course.

And no, I'm not claiming that a $137 decklink card pays, on its own, for Resolve department. But, in case anyone didn't notice, BMD is a hardware company. And it gives software away for free. How do you suppose it manages to do that?

It costs quite a lot to keep Resolve running, so definitely not by selling few cards (sole Resolve buyers) at small cost for sure. Money is not the problem here because many people said they are happy to pay (eg. as an optional feature). I don't think that whole argument that BM needs to sell (so few) Decklink cards to pay for Resolve development is actually valid at all. Overall hardware sales maybe yes, but not really those Resolve related ( I assume they are tiny % of all sales).
Most Resolve users don't use/want/need Decklink preview. Those who do will be most likely happy for paid optional feature, so I don't really see where is the problem

AndreasOberg wrote:Some questions about Decklink. Can you use that monitor for other programs like Photoshop or?
What is a normal configuration?

IMO, the best/most universal way to do this would be with a kvm switch, or a monitor that has a switch built into it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVM_switch

• run 1 cable from your graphics card to the kvm
• run 1 cable from your Decklink to the kvm
• flip between them as needed

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:It costs quite a lot to keep Resolve running, so definitely not by selling few cards (sole Resolve buyers) at small cost for sure. Money is not the problem here because many people said they are happy to pay (eg. as an optional feature). I don't think that whole argument that BM needs to sell (so few) Decklink cards to pay for Resolve development is actually valid at all. Overall hardware sales maybe yes, but not really those Resolve related ( I assume they are tiny % of all sales).
Most Resolve users don't use/want/need Decklink preview. Those who do will be most likely happy for paid optional feature, so I don't really see where is the problem

The best counter-argument I can offer is, the company which actually has to pay the bills apparently isn't convinced that folks here understand its business model better than it does.

This idea that you pay $20 extra for some beloved feature is not how the business works, and everyone knows it. Up the price to $1500-$2000, which is still cheap in this business (audio plugins can cost that much!), and see how many enthusiasts are left for GUI monitoring.

What we do know is that hardware -- control panels, cameras(!), monitoring, Fairlight mixing boards(?) -- pays the bills. That's why Resolve is cheap or free. So be careful what you wish for: if BMD takes the traditional road, we know how it ends: with an abandoned product or the Adobe or Avid model.

John Paines wrote:The best counter-argument I can offer is, the company which actually has to pay the bills apparently isn't convinced that folks here understand its business model better than it does.

Some of us are in the business, so we have a good idea of how software business models work.

John Paines wrote:This idea that you pay $20 extra for some beloved feature is not how the business works, and everyone knows it. Up the price to $1500-$2000, which is still cheap in this business (audio plugins can cost that much!), and see how many enthusiasts are left for GUI monitoring.

I don't remember anyone suggesting it cost $20, but modular upgrade packages is a growing trend in the software world. Unlocking advanced features/modules, and cloud storage/processing are two things that immediately come to mind.

for example:
https://www.autodesk.com/products/cloud-credits

John Paines wrote:What we do know is that hardware -- control panels, cameras(!), monitoring, Fairlight mixing boards(?) -- pays the bills. That's why Resolve is cheap or free. So be careful what you wish for: if BMD takes the traditional road, we know how it ends: with an abandoned product or the Adobe or Avid model.

That's not the traditional road, that's the road of a poorly managed product.

I don't think Resolve should be free anyway. I think it should be 10$ a month for basic version.

There were some posts made in this thread earlier that need to be addressed. We're all for the friendly debate on the topics however, if there continues to be anything belittling or speaking negatively of each other, the thread will be locked and warnings, potentially bans, will be implemented. Let's keep things civil folks.

Tony Rivera wrote:There were some posts made in this thread earlier that need to be addressed. We're all for the friendly debate on the topics however, if there continues to be anything belittling or speaking negatively of each other, the thread will be locked and warnings, potentially bans, will be implemented. Let's keep things civil folks.

I agree... come on girls, everyone sing a verse of Kumbaya and hold hands around the camp fire. Agreeing to disagree is sometimes the best option.

Let's all go back to using gigantic rack mounted ASIC PCBs for DaVinci like in the good old days! These newfangled general purpose PCs with their GPUs can't offer the kind of quality that purpose-built hardware like the DaVinci 2K offers!

Micha Clazing wrote:Let's all go back to using gigantic rack mounted ASIC PCBs for DaVinci like in the good old days! These newfangled general purpose PCs with their GPUs can't offer the kind of quality that purpose-built hardware like the DaVinci 2K offers!

Nah, we need to go back to using punch cards to enter commands.

AndreasOberg wrote:..Some questions about Decklink. Can you use that monitor for other programs like Photoshop or? What is a normal configuration?

Decklink cards (and their Thunderbolt equiv) are pretty standard across the industry. Our 4K SDI Decklink is supported by Lightworks (NLE), Scratch (CC), Resolve, Scratch Play Pro (media player/transcoder) as well as several other pro orientated applications. Probably even some Adobe products.

They could be seen as a 'legacy' concept today but the idea is that they completely bypass your OS/GPU setup to offer a clean, reliable, Video signal out of a Computer, direct to your dedicated Video Monitor. SDI Video Monitors, (eg: Flanders, Sony, Canon) have been traditionally very expensive so only found in Broadcast TV and high end Colorist facilities but modern low cost 4K TVs or IPS Computer monitors, calibrated to Rec.709 (eg: Eizo, BenQ, NEC and others) can be connected to your Decklink with some success using HDMI direct or SDI to Display Port converters.

In our case, we have the Decklink driven 24" calibrated IPS display in directly in front, just behind our Resolve CC Panel with a 24" Resolve GUI Monitor RH side, Resolve 24" Scopes display LH side with a small 15" OS/File Management display mounted directly above the Grading display. Our 4K Decklink also feeds a Rec709 calibrated 55" 4K Client TV located to one side so that clients can only see the 55" display and Resolve's Scopes display at any one time. This setup has proved successful now for several years.

Craig Marshall wrote:

AndreasOberg wrote:..Some questions about Decklink. Can you use that monitor for other programs like Photoshop or? What is a normal configuration?

Decklink cards (and their Thunderbolt equiv) are pretty standard across the industry. Our 4K SDI Decklink is supported by Lightworks (NLE), Scratch (CC), Resolve, Scratch Play Pro (media player/transcoder) as well as several other pro orientated applications. Probably even some Adobe products.

They could be seen as a 'legacy' concept today but the idea is that they completely bypass your OS/GPU setup to offer a clean, reliable, Video signal out of a Computer, direct to your dedicated Video Monitor. SDI Video Monitors, (eg: Flanders, Sony, Canon) have been traditionally very expensive so only found in Broadcast TV and high end Colorist facilities but modern low cost 4K TVs or IPS Computer monitors, calibrated to Rec.709 (eg: Eizo, BenQ, NEC and others) can be connected to your Decklink with some success using HDMI direct or SDI to Display Port converters.

In our case, we have the Decklink driven 24" calibrated IPS display in directly in front, just behind our Resolve CC Panel with a 24" Resolve GUI Monitor RH side, Resolve 24" Scopes display LH side with a small 15" OS/File Management display mounted directly above the Grading display. Our 4K Decklink also feeds a Rec709 calibrated 55" 4K Client TV located to one side so that clients can only see the 55" display and Resolve's Scopes display at any one time. This setup has proved successful now for several years.

What would a laptop solution be to get 4k out, also without using thunderbolt?

None.

Daz Wood wrote:What would a laptop solution be to get 4k out, also without using thunderbolt?

Without using a Thunderbolt interface, your best bet is probably HDMI out to a 'reliable' IPS Monitor. This assumes your Laptop has a 4K HDMI out which will play smoothly at your chosen framerate. If the monitor cannot be accurately Hardware calibrated internally, then a calibration LUT would be applied on DaVinci output or some 3rd party converter. The monitor's 'calibration' would need to account for any discrepancies or inaccuracies in both the Display and/or the laptop's HDMI output. Display uniformity can be an issue.

Craig Marshall wrote:

Daz Wood wrote:What would a laptop solution be to get 4k out, also without using thunderbolt?

Without using a Thunderbolt interface, your best bet is probably HDMI out to a 'reliable' IPS Monitor. If the monitor cannot be accurately Hardware calibrated internally, then a calibration LUT would be applied on DaVinci output or some 3rd party converter. The monitor's 'calibration' would need to account for any discrepancies or inaccuracies in both the Display and/or the laptop's HDMI output. Display uniformity can be an issue.

Thanks, I have been looking at this laptop and am wondering if it's usable for some casual 4k editing from some Panasonic G80 footage https://www.asus.com/uk/Laptops/ROG-Strix-GL702ZC/

Get Nvidia based, so at least some h264/h265 files will be GPU decoded.

Without a Decklink or similar Laptop interface, you're still going to face the subject of this Topic: no 'Full Screen 'Viewer' on a second display...'

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Get Nvidia based, so at least some h264/h265 files will be GPU decoded.

I have a low spec PC now with with an Nvidia 1050ti but it seems that the CPU is taking all the load and not the GPU.

Will the radeon rx 580 not work for h264?

Daz Wood wrote:Will the radeon rx 580 not work for h264?

Nope, Resolve is using the Nvidea codec specific to Nvidea gpus.
https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-video-codec-sdk

Your 1050 is supported, but you must keep in mind this is a feature only found in the studio version of resolve.
https://developer.nvidia.com/video-enco ... ort-matrix

And it only works for some files. They have to be 4:2:0 and 8bit in case of h264 files.
Anything 4:2:2 is not supported, neither 10bit h264.

It was a simple request to change the UI from a crowded screen with a tiny low res playback preview to a second full screen using the GPU in a desktop or laptop.
It will not replace BMDs Decklink for pros and studios.
It is a common feature in other NLEs.
It is a perfectly valid simple user request.
I'm happy to to edit on two 24" HD monitors with a full screen HD playback preview on the second monitor. It's a vast improvement over cramming everything into a single screen with a tiny preview.
It's not rocket science and may not be a suitable solution for the Pros as many have stated above.
It's just a simple ENHANCEMENT to improve workspace and preview quality.
Even the on-board Intel iGPU can support three 4k screens so theoretically a windowed UI would allow us to drag and resize windows across monitors (one for my source files, one for edit, and one for preview??)

Every time I fire up my machine and start Resolve, this question jumps into my mind, and it comes down to what this previous post said.

Just sayin'.

And man, look at the date!

Funny how almost all other video editing/color/compositing programs I use, for whatever, I can use them as I wish, and set up my screens how I like. But not Resolve. And I don't have Thunderbolt, and I don't think I have room for another card next to my 1080. My monitors do not have SDI in.

I do NOT have problems with my renders looking different than I intended. On any screen. On any machine, other than the odd one with the weird issues. In general, (and yes, to my surprise) they look just fine (or also just as bad, depending).

Sure would be nice to preview my work on my second monitor. It's a workspace real estate thing. I paid for Studio, and I paid for Fusion. (before the meld) I'd be OK paying for a device once, if it worked. But it looks like I'm going to be stuck with a dead screen and a tiny preview since I cannot seem to find a device to go from Resolve to my setup.

Al Spaeth wrote:It was a simple request to change the UI from a crowded screen with a tiny low res playback preview to a second full screen using the GPU in a desktop or laptop.
It will not replace BMDs Decklink for pros and studios.
It is a common feature in other NLEs.
It is a perfectly valid simple user request.
I'm happy to to edit on two 24" HD monitors with a full screen HD playback preview on the second monitor. It's a vast improvement over cramming everything into a single screen with a tiny preview.
It's not rocket science and may not be a suitable solution for the Pros as many have stated above.
It's just a simple ENHANCEMENT to improve workspace and preview quality.
Even the on-board Intel iGPU can support three 4k screens so theoretically a windowed UI would allow us to drag and resize windows across monitors (one for my source files, one for edit, and one for preview??)

Gene Cornelius +1

Gene Cornelius wrote:Funny how almost all other video editing/color/compositing programs I use, for whatever, I can use them as I wish, and set up my screens how I like. But not Resolve.

Well, you're always free to use those other programs. I think it'd be a very boring world if we only had one camera, one editing program, and one color-correction program. But there's a dozen out there you can choose. Maybe Resolve is not for you.

Marc Wielage wrote:

Gene Cornelius wrote:Funny how almost all other video editing/color/compositing programs I use, for whatever, I can use them as I wish, and set up my screens how I like. But not Resolve.

Well, you're always free to use those other programs. I think it'd be a very boring world if we only had one camera, one editing program, and one color-correction program. But there's a dozen out there you can choose. Maybe Resolve is not for you.

yes -- that's indeed a very trenchant paraphrase of BMDs horrible stubborn and ignorant attitude, ignoring this most frequently claimed user request already for years...

Martin Schitter wrote:yes -- that's indeed a very trenchant paraphrase of BMDs horrible stubborn and ignorant attitude, ignoring this most frequently claimed user request already for years...

Well, it doesn't make it any less true. Ignorance and stubbornness are in the eye of the beholder. There are ways to get a dedicated full-screen output from Resolve 100% of the time, and the solutions are inexpensive and practical.

Martin Schitter wrote:horrible stubborn and ignorant attitude, ignoring this most frequently claimed user request already for years...

So what you actualy want to say is


and

Thanks Martin - we assume BMD wants/needs to compete in the NLE market. It's a simple and useful feature available on competing products. For professional color grading BMD card and a pro monitor may be the best and the Pros will continue to buy them. Then there is 4K HDR with a $47K monitor.
https://www.monitornerds.com/affordable-monitors-for-hdr-editing/

Not all of us need (or can afford) it but preview on a second monitor/tv is a must feature before I buy Resolve.
https://www.redsharknews.com/post/item/5170-is-grading-on-a-consumer-monitor-simply-wrong
"Ask some colourists and they might tell you that everything is colour critical. It isn’t. If all you need for your particular tier of work is ‘good enough’ then that’s fine. As long as your skin tones look healthy, and your grass isn’t fluorescent green, nobody is really going to bat an eyelid. That’s why scopes are your friend. If you know the limitations of the gear you are working with, you can mitigate any issues and work around or with them."
I'm sure Marc is a highly respected professional but things have changed since Resolve was $100K.

There are things about Resolve I really really like. A lot. A few things I detest. Sadly for me, the things I like are a lot more important than the things I detest. I refuse to give them up, so I thought I'd pipe in to offer my two cents. It's really amazing. I think it could be better, and some of the ways I know are not the same as the ways people who have been working with it for years might not understand, but suffice it to say I have not found a way to create full screen playback that A) Will work with my system, and B) is "even somewhat" inexpensive. That's actually the least of my concerns, but, since I just fired it up again, and wanted to use dual screen/full screen with controls on one of them, I came back to find out how I might get a device that allows this without A) room in my machine for a card and/or B) a device that I can connect without Thunderbolt or SDI, and C) Does not cost over $1000 (preferably less) to playback 4K.

But I go on recommending to friends that they learn resolve so they too can enjoy amazing color controls (even if they can't see it) the ability to process RAW sequences, awesome stabilization, tracking, and myriad other features, not least of which is the freedom from Adobe. Most worthy.
Just could be a little more user-friendly, and requests for some of those improvements should not be met with "do it our way or hit the road, you loser" attitudes. Every program and company has issues ... so far none has managed to tick all the boxes. Resolve could. But there is serious resistance to the idea that people like to work their own way with the tools they have access to. Yes, I have broken the tip off a knife using it as a screwdriver. Resolve is a great multi-tool, but it is missing the screwdriver.

Marc Wielage wrote:

Martin Schitter wrote:yes -- that's indeed a very trenchant paraphrase of BMDs horrible stubborn and ignorant attitude, ignoring this most frequently claimed user request already for years...

Well, it doesn't make it any less true. Ignorance and stubbornness are in the eye of the beholder. There are ways to get a dedicated full-screen output from Resolve 100% of the time, and the solutions are inexpensive and practical.

Gene Cornelius wrote:suffice it to say I have not found a way to create full screen playback that A) Will work with my system, and B) is "even somewhat" inexpensive. That's actually the least of my concerns, but, since I just fired it up again, and wanted to use dual screen/full screen with controls on one of them, I came back to find out how I might get a device that allows this without A) room in my machine for a card and/or B) a device that I can connect without Thunderbolt or SDI, and C) Does not cost over $1000 (preferably less) to playback 4K.

+1 - Things have also changed since the early days of NLE with the old CRT monitors where we really needed to get a Sony pro monitor.

I need full screen preview on a second monitor. It's simply about workspace and better quality playback than a crowded single edit screen.
It's a simple GPU supported request that requires no additional hardware. Even the Intel iGPUs can support three 4K monitors for workspace.

We lowly amateurs, who publish for the web, can now afford Resolve and assume that's why BMD slashed the price. We may not be in the same league as the professionals, but may represent a larger share of the NLE market.

I accept that 8k raw will give the best edited 4k quality for those who need and can afford it but it's not my workflow.

Please let users choose between the excellent BMD solution for Pros - or a "less color accurate" second monitor full screen playback without additional hardware which we feel is "good enough" (See the RedShark News link above) for our HD, UHD, and even HDR needs.
"Consumer grade monitors are getting better all the time. Is 'good enough', well, good enough for all of us, or should we all take out second mortgages to get the best monitoring systems on the market?"

Gene Cornelius wrote:Just could be a little more user-friendly, and requests for some of those improvements should not be met with "do it our way or hit the road, you loser" attitudes.

Marc is indeed a very good ambassador for Resolve, haha.

I think I need to repeat myself once again.

Some of us need more than 2 screens, and it doesn't have anything to do with the lame concept of a 'Hero' display!

I think i found Dan's childhood picture online

Glenn Venghaus wrote:I think i found Dan's childhood picture online

Nah, it was more like this. I do not miss the days of green text on a black screen.

Yeah same here . Learned programming on this baby. Mind was blown and messed up forever


And it (the more powerfull model III) could already do some sick graphics based on some sine waves

Glenn Venghaus wrote:I think i found Dan's childhood picture online

He must be happy the gentleman who is responsible for calibrating the screens every Monday morning.

I bet you 100% Dan's gaming rick is P3 calibrated

btw according to anonymous sources this is his (calibrated) bathroom. The man is serious about his craft. Respect :

Glenn Venghaus wrote:I bet you 100% Dan's gaming rick is P3 calibrated

ha, the last time I played games regularly was the 90's.

Jolie: Saturday I go in thalassotherapy ... Hoping that I would have the pleasure of having such pretty colors during my mud bath with large salts ...and bubbles

Glenn Venghaus wrote:Yeah same here . Learned programming on this baby. Mind was blown and messed up forever

The first "computer" I can remember using was an original silver/grey trs-80 color computer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Co ... %80%931983)

Dan Sherman wrote:

Glenn Venghaus wrote:Yeah same here . Learned programming on this baby. Mind was blown and messed up forever

The first "computer" I can remember using was an original silver/grey trs-80 color computer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Co ... %80%931983)

Bah, kids today!!!

My first computer was a Signetics 2650 development board with 1KB of ROM and 256 BYTES of RAM. Interface was via a 110 baud TTY terminal with ink on paper.

You young folk have it so easy today

OUPS...

Here : Sinclair ZX81 is an 8-bit personal computer, designed by Sinclair Research...

RCModelReviews wrote:
Bah, kids today!!
—-
You young folk have it so easy today

Hahahahahha. Fantastic. You win, but only by a small margin.
Seems we are all a bunch of (proud) old farts remembering the absolute early days of IT the younglings here can only dream of.

Jean Claude wrote:Here : Sinclair ZX81 is an 8-bit personal computer, designed by Sinclair Research...

Me too. With a RadioShack cassette recorder for saving and loading programs.

And all this crap has what to do with the topic??

Micha Clazing wrote:Marc is indeed a very good ambassador for Resolve, haha.

Naw, just a colorist who calls it as I see it. I was just showing a friend of mine today a 2002 daVinci brochure on the 2K and Nucleas (both predecessors of Resolve), and just marveling over how far things have come in 16 years. And I think the latter system had to use a half-dozen or more computers working in synchronization with each other, filling two entire racks worth of equipment, and costing $700,000. To me, it's amazing that things are as good and efficient as they are today, and it makes you wonder where we're headed in another 5, 10, or 15 years.

Marc - That depth of knowledge is quite scary looking back and brings things into perspective. It is truly amazing what technology has brought us since then. Your thoughts, comments and help given on the Forum are greatly appreciated as a professional with decades of experience. Thanks again

Al Spaeth wrote:And all this crap has what to do with the topic??

Nothing , but we are all tired of regurgitating the same stuff over and over and over and over for years on end and talking about "anything" else , preferable a bit funny and light , is more productive. Its up to BM to either do it or not. Period.

Al Spaeth wrote:Your thoughts, comments and help given on the Forum are greatly appreciated as a professional with decades of experience. Thanks again

So true !!!!

Glenn Venghaus wrote:

Al Spaeth wrote:And all this crap has what to do with the topic??

Nothing , but we are all tired of regurgitating the same stuff over and over and over and over for years on end and talking about "anything" else , preferable a bit funny and light, is more productive. Its up to BM to either do it or not. Period.

I think BM have been exceptional in their response to user requests for Resolve since I started using 12.5. Therefore, the more users who support this feature, the better the chances we may get it. No doubt the BM professional hardware solution is the best and professionals will continue to buy it even if this feature is added.
If BM were only interested in the needs of professional colorists and studios they would have not invested the money into developing a full blown NLE to compete with products like Premiere available for free and $299 for the full version. Until BM says "No" we will continue to ask for it. No need to follow the thread if you find it boring. If you find "funny and light" "more productive" please start a new NLE Humour thread.