Resolve 15.1 and Fairlight still serious problems

Hi there,

in the thread https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=78453 Margus reported of serious problems with Fairlight, which I had to second. I hoped the problems may have gone with the latest release 15.1. They did not. Audio editing is still unreliable in the latest release. It seems the problem of different "interpretations" of FX settings in the same Audio track have gone away.

The problem of different volume levels in Fairlight and Edit for the exact same audio track still exists. Also, I now encounter the problem that "sometimes" the same audio track in one timeline is crackling in the other one it is fine. Closing Davinci and re-opening helps for a few minutes!

I hope the development department is aware of that and is working on a fix? Meanwhile I have to roll back to Davinci 14.x, because Fairlight is unusable for me.

(Lenovo Workstation S30, Xeon CPU, 80GB RAM, onboard audio, Nvidia Quadro P2000, Windows 10 Pro 64bit)

Kind regards

Thomas

+1

Audio issues are the biggest issues I'm facing right now.

+2

15.1.023 then 15.1.025 made things even worse with each release. Pretty much unusable reliably for pro work here. Too many issues.

Suggestions for alternative software besides ProTools for stereo, 5.1, and 7.1 sound editing/mixing?

[Peter Chamberlain]

There were no changes to Fairlight between build 23 and 25.

Please document the issues you find with repo steps so an engineer can follow up. Phone videos of the ui also help.

Thanks guys

There were no changes to Fairlight between build 23 and 25.

Peter,

thanks for taking care. What is build 23 and 25? Both Resolve 15.x or even earlier such as 14.3?

Kind regards

Thomas

Suggestions for alternative software besides ProTools for stereo, 5.1, and 7.1 sound editing/mixing?

Nuendo.

Suggestions for alternative software besides ProTools for stereo, 5.1, and 7.1 sound editing/mixing?

Nuendo.

Nuendo is fantastic, but pricey; if you're looking for something more affordable (and I see you use a Mac), you can use Logic, which has support for surround (see https://support.apple.com/kb/PH24643?lo ... ale=en_US_). It's an excellent DAW.

but beware, Logic is not super strong in the Audio Editing department. It doesn't have a lot of the stuff Pro Tools has for getting in there and chopping up and cleaning up audio. Got good mixing tools tho.

It's more geared towards composers than mixers.

For audio editing, Adobe Audition isn't bad.

Hoping that some day soon Fairlight in Resolve will be the combination of all of these.

I was going to try Logic, but there’s no video output to a video card. That’s a deal-breaker. Does Nuendo and Audition? They also don’t do 7.1, which isn’t really a deal-breaker but I like having that option/ability with Fairlight/Resolve.

but beware, Logic is not super strong in the Audio Editing department. It doesn't have a lot of the stuff Pro Tools has for getting in there and chopping up and cleaning up audio. Got good mixing tools tho.

It's actually quite a good editor; Ripple Training has an entire course on editing dialog in Logic Pro X (given by Mary Plummer, who now works for BMD and has been helping them with Fairlight). She used Logic for years in professional post-production.

but beware, Logic is not super strong in the Audio Editing department. It doesn't have a lot of the stuff Pro Tools has for getting in there and chopping up and cleaning up audio. Got good mixing tools tho.

It's actually quite a good editor; Ripple Training has an entire course on editing dialog in Logic Pro X (given by Mary Plummer, who now works for BMD and has been helping them with Fairlight). She used Logic for years in professional post-production.

It's okay, but if you've ever used Pro Tools for audio editing you'll realize it's not even in the same league. For instance, you can't even apply an EQ to a single audio clip. It's only track based. When you're trying to clean up audio on a film for instance, this quickly becomes nearly impossible.

It's okay, but if you've ever used Pro Tools for audio editing you'll realize it's not even in the same league. For instance, you can't even apply an EQ to a single audio clip. It's only track based..

Not true -- Logic has selection-based processing in which you can apply EQ to a single musical note, a word, or any portion of a clip really. That's handy for dealing with plosives in voiceover or dialog, for example.

Yes you can process destructively, but you can't put an EQ on a piece of dialogue and then go back and tweak it later.

Like you can in Pro Tools or Audition.

Point is, yes it works with audio but if you're getting into something that needs tons of really nitty gritty cleanup I would suggest Audition over Logic. And I use all of them. Not trying to argue.

Yes you can process destructively, but you can't put an EQ on a piece of dialogue and then go back and tweak it later.

Okay, I trust your expertise since you're using all these tools, but did just want to note that in selection-based processing Logic creates a new file of the processed regions, and leaves the original files available in case you want to revert back to the originals. You can go back and redo it later, but not as simple as "tweaking" it I suppose.

I guess my point is that most people think of Logic as just for music composition but I've found it remarkably capable as an audio editor; it has met all my needs so far but my needs are simple (voiceovers, music, a little dialog, etc.).

I agree that it would be great if Fairlight could be a one-stop solution but it seems there's still quite a way to go.

I agree that it would be great if Fairlight could be a one-stop solution but it seems there's still quite a way to go.

Understatement. I’m really disappointed. I don’t understand how this is a release version. Feels like an early beta. I wish these companies would get over having these deadlines and just do a proper beta testing period and work everything out before they do the official release and end up with a more stable product. With free open public beta testing there is zero reason to rush out an unfinished buggy release version. It just frustrates the users.

I’m going to try Audition for my next sound job that comes in. It is Adobe though so I’m not expecting there to be no issues. If it goes well enough I’ll come back to Fairlight later down the line, as I would prefer working in Resolve for everything.

I will say that I do like what BMD is doing with Resolve. Having everything in one app is very powerful.

Fairlight functionality working wonderfully here on a variety of systems with different vintages (along with several other post audio professionals), and with each release of Resolve, another required tool is rapidly dropped (which are required with alternate sound for picture oriented DAWs, and which in many cases cost more than the DAW itself).

The Fairlight workflow within Resolve increasingly illustrates the massive shortcomings of the alternate sound for picture oriented audio workstations in a modern audio workflow.
Can’t imagine going backwards.

I tried Adobe Audition. Really good actually, except no video output, which makes it a no go. There are a lot of features in Audition that I'd love to see in Fairlight.

Nuendo, which does have video output, seems like it would be the ideal option. Does Steinberg ever run any sales or does anyone know of a way to get a better price?

Reynaud, are you using a lot of effects? I wonder if it's something to do with the effects plug-ins. I'm pretty much only using RX6 (I know RX7 just came out, but still doesn't list Resolve as supported) as far as 3rd party goes, and I'm really trying to limit the use or use it in the RX6 Editor and then import new media into Resolve, but I experience a lot of issues with even the built-in effects. For example, I added a reverb to some clips. Worked fine at first, but eventually they just stopped having any effect during playback. Either restarting or removing and re-adding the effect is what fixed it. But then I came back to the project a few days later and on when playing those clips the audio bounced from left to right to left to right and so on with a crazy high reverb effect. Nothing had changed with the settings or anything. And that's just one of the many issues I've come across. And I'm not the only one bringing up these issues, so there really must be something wrong or we're all doing something wrong. Could you describe your workflow a little so maybe we can figure this out?

By video output do you mean rendering to video?

Yeah I've experienced the same thing with FairlightFX just deactivating themselves for no reason. A workaround I've discovered to deal with that for now is to click to another timeline tab and then back to the one you're working on and it will usually refresh the audio engine and be working again.....until it stops again.

I have a feeling there is something to do with the tabbed timelines at play in there, because of the fact that switching between them tends to refresh things on the audio side.

By video output do you mean rendering to video?

No I mean outputting the video through a Decklink card to a client monitor.

Yeah I've experienced the same thing with FairlightFX just deactivating themselves for no reason. A workaround I've discovered to deal with that for now is to click to another timeline tab and then back to the one you're working on and it will usually refresh the audio engine and be working again.....until it stops again.

I have a feeling there is something to do with the tabbed timelines at play in there, because of the fact that switching between them tends to refresh things on the audio side.

I think I tried that on earlier versions and it didn't help, but I'll try it again next time I experience the issue. Thanks for the tip.

Not sure about Decklink, but it uses the same Mercury Playback Engine that Premiere uses, so you can output it the same way you would Premiere. I output full screen video playback to a big 65" client monitor.

Not sure about Decklink, but it uses the same Mercury Playback Engine that Premiere uses, so you can output it the same way you would Premiere. I output full screen video playback to a big 65" client monitor.

I'm on the latest version and don't have that option. I get it in Premiere, but not Audition.

Haha I can assure you it does my friend, because I do it. Perhaps some Googling.

It play out as Full Screen on a second monitor, so go out via HDMI to whatever your client monitor is. Do it all the time when in sessions.

Haha I can assure you it does my friend, because I do it. Perhaps some Googling.

It play out as Full Screen on a second monitor, so go out via HDMI to whatever your client monitor is. Do it all the time when in sessions.

I did Google it and found a thread that says you can't. https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2386157 How are you doing it? Can you send a screenshot of the settings?

HDMI out to Client Monitor TV. TV used as a second Display. Video output set to Fullscreen on second display.

Works great. Not in front of that machine to do a screenshot right now, but if you can get your client monitor as a second display via HDMI it's easy to get it to work.

I believe you might right click on the small video display and say "Play on second display" or something like that.

HDMI out to Client Monitor TV. TV used as a second Display. Video output set to Fullscreen on second display.

Works great. Not in front of that machine to do a screenshot right now, but if you can get your client monitor as a second display via HDMI it's easy to get it to work.

I believe you might right click on the small video display and say "Play on second display" or something like that.

That's not Mercury Playback. That's using your TV as a computer monitor. That's not what I'm looking for. I want actual video output from the Decklink card.

Mercury Playback is a software engine, and yes it is playing back on the Mercury Playback Engine. This was a big feature added to Audition in the last 2 years to be able to playback the Premiere timeline live without having to render, using........Mercury Playback.

Screenshot 2018-09-21 17.27.08.png (31.36 KiB) Viewed 3628 times

But anyway, if you want fullscreen output, I told you how to do it.

Mercury Playback is a software engine, and yes it is playing back on the Mercury Playback Engine. This was a big feature added to Audition in the last 2 years to be able to playback the Premiere timeline live without having to render, using........Mercury Playback.

Screenshot 2018-09-21 17.27.08.png

But anyway, if you want fullscreen output, I told you how to do it.

1. That says Premiere Pro CS5. Nommemtion of Audition.
2. Mercury Playback is an option that can be turned on and off.
3. There is zero mention of Mercury Playback in Audition anywhere. Google it. It doesn’t exist.
4. I can accomplish what your describing in Premiere Pro even with Mercury Playback turned off. Getting full screen playback on a second monitor does not mean you’re using Mercury Playback.
5. Thank you for the tip, but that option does not work for me.

Here's more info about what Mercury is.
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/773101

Best of luck to you my friend.

And I agree, I hope the folks at BMD are studying Adobe Audition as well because for nitty gritty audio editing it's really surprisingly powerful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Giyh9OWaQ

Here's more info about what Mercury is.
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/773101

Best of luck to you my friend.

And I agree, I hope the folks at BMD are studying Adobe Audition as well because for nitty gritty audio editing it's really surprisingly powerful.

Not sure why you posted that video. I know what Mercury Playback is. And Regardless of what Mercury Playback is, it’s s still not in Audition. There’s nothing in that thread that even mentions Audition.

Mercury Playback is a GPU architecture based on CUDA.

Audition can playback Premiere timelines natively without any rendering, as demonstrated in the video, because of the Mercury architecture.

That thread is from the CS5 days when Mercury first came out.

Point is, if you want to be able to playback video output to a client monitor using Audition which is what you mentioned, then you can do so, it looks beautiful and I do it all the time. I'm sorry that you can't use your Native Black Magic Card to do so, as it is a competing brand.

I'm sure you'll get it all there though my friend, or maybe you'll still be here arguing who knows.

What you're talking about is Mercury Transmit. But you already know that

Reynaud, are you using a lot of effects? I wonder if it's something to do with the effects plug-ins.

Yes, several.

The following post in a previous thread of yours, outlines the plugins used on my systems without issue: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=65095&p=382028#p382028

Nuendo, which does have video output, seems like it would be the ideal option. Does Steinberg ever run any sales or does anyone know of a way to get a better price?

Mike, I might part with my second Nuendo License. Send me a private message if interested. I somehow are not allowed to send private messages myself anymore.

To admin: can you check why I cant send PMs and get in contact? Thanks!

Klaus