10 bit to 8 bit delivery

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PhilipJA

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10 bit to 8 bit delivery

PostWed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am

Hi,

I'm on Resolve 15 Studio on a Windows 10 PC and have recordings from my Panasonic GH5 using the 200mbps All-Intra mp4 10 bit format.

If I use the h.264/mp4 to deliver, the resulting file returns to 8 bit.

Am I therefore losing all the advantages of colour adjustments and re-introducing banding back in the footage?

Any advice or workarounds so that an mp4 file can play freely in any media player with the qualities of 10bit?
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Cary Knoop

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Re: 10 bit to 8 bit delivery

PostWed Oct 10, 2018 2:46 pm

PhilipJA wrote:Hi,

I'm on Resolve 15 Studio on a Windows 10 PC and have recordings from my Panasonic GH5 using the 200mbps All-Intra mp4 10 bit format.

If I use the h.264/mp4 to deliver, the resulting file returns to 8 bit.

Am I therefore losing all the advantages of colour adjustments and re-introducing banding back in the footage?

Any advice or workarounds so that an mp4 file can play freely in any media player with the qualities of 10bit?

If you want to color grade your footage then 10 bit (and 4:2:2 chroma subsampling) is more robust , so even if the destination format is 8 bit you will have an advantage.

I would not use the built-in H.264 encoder. Not only have I encountered many glitches using this encoder in a Windows environment (apparently those do not exist on max OS) but also Resolve's dithering to 8 bit (if there is any dithering at all) is substandard.

My preferred workflow is to encode to DNxHx or Cineform and from there use x264 to encode to H.264. You can opt to keep it 10 bit or dither it to 8 bit depending on the requirements.
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Jean Claude

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Re: 10 bit to 8 bit delivery

PostWed Oct 10, 2018 4:43 pm

PhilipJA wrote:Hi,
.../...
and re-introducing banding back in the footage?
.../...


Hello PhilipJA,

Before exporting in 8 bits, (MP4, H.264 or other ...)
You can always try the OFX 'Deband'
2 things to consider: your choice and if it exist another implicit encoder: how it encode a video (YT or VIMEO) ...

(Do not hesitate to play with "Global Blend" and other parameters => it is necessary to test...At least the minimum is first time) :)

Deband Sample.jpg
Deband Sample.jpg (16.29 KiB) Viewed 254 times

Edit: if not enough Grain (for debanding) on the contrary: there is an OFX for that
Windows 10 PRO X64 1709 and 1803 | DaVinci Resolve Studio 15.1.2.008 | Fusion Studio 9.0.2 | Decklink Studio 4K 6G | Desktop Video 10.10.11 | Nvidia 416.16
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: 10 bit to 8 bit delivery

PostWed Oct 10, 2018 10:45 pm

Use handbrake to encode h264/h265 at 8/10/12 bit of depth. It’s better, more parametric setup, free for Mac wind Linux, it’s a free interface for ffmpeg


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
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Bryan Worsley

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Re: 10 bit to 8 bit delivery

PostThu Oct 11, 2018 3:24 am

Cary Knoop wrote:..also Resolve's dithering to 8 bit (if there is any dithering at all) is substandard

I think it doesn't.

carlomacchiavello wrote:Use handbrake to encode h264/h265 at 8/10/12 bit of depth. It’s better, more parametric setup, free for Mac wind Linux, it’s a free interface for ffmpeg


Strictly speaking Handbrake is not an FFMPEG interface/front end; it has it's own CLI, but it uses libraries from FFMPEG and other projects.

Does it now import all of the 'usual' 10-bit 422 intermediate formats though? IIRC, last time I checked it out it didn't accept DNxHR HQ/HQX files, maybe Cineform also, but that was a good while ago.

Personally, I prefer to use AVISynth+ for converting 10-bit 4:2:2 exports to 4:2:0, and then frame serving to either FFMPEG or VirtualDub2 for x264/x265 encoding. Might seem a bit convoluted, but the AVSynth+ format conversion filters offer bit-depth conversion with high quality Floyd–Steinberg (Error Diffusion) dithering. It also allows me to apply any additional post-export processing with AVISynth before encoding. Others prefer VapourSynth but I find it more 'programmer' oriented.

PhilipJA wrote:Any advice or workarounds so that an mp4 file can play freely in any media player with the qualities of 10bit?


It goes without saying that you are only going to enjoy the inherent "qualities of 10-bit" color depth on a system with 10-bit media playback support and 10-bit capable display.
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Bryan Worsley

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Re: 10 bit to 8 bit delivery

PostThu Oct 11, 2018 3:46 pm

Bryan Worsley wrote:Does it now import all of the 'usual' 10-bit 422 intermediate formats though? IIRC, last time I checked it out it didn't accept DNxHR HQ/HQX files, maybe Cineform also, but that was a good while ago.


Testing Handbrake 1.1.2 (2018090500, 64bit) on Windows 10 (portable version) and Linux Mint Cinnamon 18.3, that still appears to be the case. It will import DNxHD, ProRes HQ and Grass-Valley HQX (avi/mov) but not Cineform 10-bit 422 (avi/mov) or DNxHR HQX.

Personally, for encoding to x264/x265 (8bit/10bit) on Windows, I'd suggest looking at VirtualDub2:

http://www.virtualdub2.com/

It will accept all of these 10-bit 422 formats, and many more. What's more, when encoding to 10-bit x264/x265 you can be certain that the bit-depth is preserved from input decode to compressor output.

Of course if PhilipJA is content to use Resolve's internal H264 encoder and does encounter banding issues with his GH5 10bit 422 material then Jean Claude's suggested FX Deband treatment may be the only option - assuming that banding is already visible on the timeline. If it manifests only after export to 8-bit H264 I can't see how you can preemptively treat that without a considerable degree of 'hit or miss' guesswork and back-and-to testing.

Adding a small amount of grain noise may help, but can also increase the risk of block artifacts when exporting or subsequently transcoding to lossy codecs, especially at lower bitrates.
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JPOwens

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Re: 10 bit to 8 bit delivery

PostThu Oct 11, 2018 11:38 pm

For those of us who are still Apple Mac users, the Compressor version 4+ application does actually rock.

Personally running 4.4.1 which is fast and good -- the H264 / HEVC hardware acceleration is a big boost with surprising quality for its price.

jPo

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