Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

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Elliott James

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Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 2:52 am

Dear All,
Though I learned many years ago to edit video, using analog edit suites, I am a relative newbie to using NLE packages so please forgive me if my question is a little rudimentary.

Ok, I am editing an independent feature film, using DaVinci Resolve 14 and wondered if I might ask for advice on how best to deal with slight (but noticeable) overexposure, notably on faces and in some instances on characters with fair hair. I realise "fixing the problem in post" is far from ideal, but no matter what I did in terms of trying to diffuse the light, I couldn't prevent the overexposure.

So, is there a method using the color grading facility for example?

If it is ok, I could upload a brief video clip so that members can see exactly what the problem is and whether there might be a solution. Not sure if I have permission to do that, please advise.

Many thanks,
Elliott
Last edited by Elliott James on Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 6:39 am

Is there a reason you are not using v15?
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Elliott James

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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 5:35 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Is there a reason you are not using v15?

Hi Peter,
I am using v14 (14.2) and the reason for this is that I installed it literally a month before the arrival of v15, by which stage I had already started editing a huge amount of footage.

Unfortunately I was then hit by the loss of my mother which set the whole thing back months and months, which brings us to now.

All footage was shot in 1080p but my intention is to ultimately upscale using a 4K filmgrain plate.

Forgive me if I have missed something in the FAQ.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 5:59 pm

Here is a still (screenshot) of one scene in particular that suffers from the overexposure/glow (There are other scenes with the exact same problem) for reference. I can also link an unlisted brief clip from my Youtube channel if that helps.
Thanks in advance.
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Overexposed - example.jpg
Screenshot from film scene suffering from overexposure.
Overexposed - example.jpg (934.37 KiB) Viewed 667 times
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 6:41 am

Elliott James wrote:Here is a still (screenshot) of one scene in particular that suffers from the overexposure/glow (There are other scenes with the exact same problem) for reference. I can also link an unlisted brief clip from my Youtube channel if that helps.

I think pulling down the gamma will help add some contrast to the shot. I'd have to see a waveform to understand if the highlights are truly clipped and lost.

A couple of things I do if clients are forced to use clipped footage:

1) if just one color channel is clipped, you can sometimes "steal" detail information from one of the other channels using the RGB Mixer. [I believe Alexis Van Hurkman covers this in one of his books.]

2) if all three channels are clipped, you can try pulling a key on the highlights and blurring them slightly.

3) another recourse is to add a bit of highlight glow to the image just to take the curse off it. Basically, call it a "look."

4) sometimes ducking just the Highlight control in Primaries can create the illusion of more detail there. Ditto with Log Highlights. But this is a bit of a crutch.

5) if the entire sky is clipped, then I'd consider using VFX composites to drop in a new sky plate if it's workable (and there's sufficient time and money).

6) some camera formats (particularly Blackmagic's) have a "highlight recovery" mode that can help in some situations.

7) in some cases, your footage may be plagued with a Video/Full Data level issue and is clipping on ingest. If that's the case, try selecting the clip on the edit page, bring up the Clip Attributes menu and switch it the other way. If it's better, keep it. If it's worse, go back to where it was.

Worst-case scenarios to me are when skintones are clipped, and that's a total nightmare. Short of reshooting, there's no easy fix for that. You can force some kind of skintone-ish color in there with a tracking mask, but it's never going to look good. The picture you have is not that bad -- trust me, I've seen far worse material aired, particularly on American reality/documentary shows.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 9:03 am

All that and then some cameras (Sony in particular) may have a bit of detail in ‘Superwhite’ that you pull back.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 4:49 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:
Elliott James wrote:Here is a still (screenshot) of one scene in particular that suffers from the overexposure/glow (There are other scenes with the exact same problem) for reference. I can also link an unlisted brief clip from my Youtube channel if that helps.

I think pulling down the gamma will help add some contrast to the shot. I'd have to see a waveform to understand if the highlights are truly clipped and lost.

A couple of things I do if clients are forced to use clipped footage:

1) if just one color channel is clipped, you can sometimes "steal" detail information from one of the other channels using the RGB Mixer. [I believe Alexis Van Hurkman covers this in one of his books.]

2) if all three channels are clipped, you can try pulling a key on the highlights and blurring them slightly.

3) another recourse is to add a bit of highlight glow to the image just to take the curse off it. Basically, call it a "look."

4) sometimes ducking just the Highlight control in Primaries can create the illusion of more detail there. Ditto with Log Highlights. But this is a bit of a crutch.

5) if the entire sky is clipped, then I'd consider using VFX composites to drop in a new sky plate if it's workable (and there's sufficient time and money).

6) some camera formats (particularly Blackmagic's) have a "highlight recovery" mode that can help in some situations.

7) in some cases, your footage may be plagued with a Video/Full Data level issue and is clipping on ingest. If that's the case, try selecting the clip on the edit page, bring up the Clip Attributes menu and switch it the other way. If it's better, keep it. If it's worse, go back to where it was.

Worst-case scenarios to me are when skintones are clipped, and that's a total nightmare. Short of reshooting, there's no easy fix for that. You can force some kind of skintone-ish color in there with a tracking mask, but it's never going to look good. The picture you have is not that bad -- trust me, I've seen far worse material aired, particularly on American reality/documentary shows.

Thank you very much Marc for your detailed breakdown and suggestions. Unfortunately we were plagued with overcast but extremely bright skies, coupled with the wall (which was damp and reflective) the characters were standing next to, that normal methods for diffusing were not as effective as I wanted.

It may be a case of trying to steal info from one of the other color channels as you've suggested. But I feel a little relieved now that you say it's not that bad and better than some reality shows. Thanks again, I appreciate it.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 5:08 pm

Uli Plank wrote:All that and then some cameras (Sony in particular) may have a bit of detail in ‘Superwhite’ that you pull back.

Thanks Uli.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 5:13 pm

Nice summary of the various techniques Marc, but I'm curious why you consider highlight pull-down using the (Primaries) 'HL' control 'a bit of a crutch' ?

Marc Wielage wrote:4) sometimes ducking just the Highlight control in Primaries can create the illusion of more detail there. Ditto with Log Highlights. But this is a bit of a crutch.


It's a technique I use all the time with slightly over-exposed footage recorded in so-called '16-255' range (i.e. Rec709 but allowing for super-white overshoot). Amazing how much near-blown highlight detail can be 'recovered' with quite small (negative) adjustments.

I'd definitely avoid using the 'Log Highlights' pull-down technique when skin tones are at stake though, as it invariably involves lowering the highlight range threshold (HR) some, to achieve good effect. More useful for scapes/background keys IMHO.

But applied carefully, with a little gamma compensation, I find the 'HL' tool can be very effective in correcting slightly over-exposed skin tones when there is super-white data to work with.

Elliott James wrote: Unfortunately we were plagued with overcast but extremely bright skies, coupled with the wall (which was damp and reflective) the characters were standing next to, that normal methods for diffusing were not as effective as I wanted.


Maybe try the 'HL' tool, if you haven't already? Diffusion methods are a recourse when the highlights are hard clipped, but if your original footage has usable super-white data there might be some latitude for recovering that face and hair detail.
Last edited by Bryan Worsley on Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 6:34 pm

Elliott James wrote:Dear All,
...
If it is ok, I could upload a brief video clip so that members can see exactly what the problem is and whether there might be a solution. ...
Many thanks,
Elliott


Hello,
Post a link to a piece of clip overexposed via Wetransfert or other but above all: it is not transcoded => source that the real source output camera .. but which camera? :)
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 4:30 am

Bryan Worsley wrote:Nice summary of the various techniques Marc, but I'm curious why you consider highlight pull-down using the (Primaries) 'HL' control 'a bit of a crutch' ?

If it's clipped as in "slammed to the wall at 60MPH," then it's not going to do that much. If it's just lightly hitting the top of the waveform, you can kind of "carve" a nicer shape to the highlights a bit. I do this all the time with blown-out practical lights in the background when I feel they're on the verge of nuclear, because the DP didn't think to put them on a dimmer. I like the look of a bare light bulb hanging from the ceiling when I can see some detail in the bulb, as opposed to one giant inferno. But... it's a creative choice.

Sometimes I have to use combinations of some or all of these. It's whatever works, and without having the material in front of me, I can't tell you how well it would work, or whether it would work at all.

It does point to the need for the DP to be very careful about managing the dynamic range of these cameras. I warn them all the time to fill for the blacks then protect the highlights by watching the histograms. Don't let them clip. Too often, they read the side of the box and say, "wow, 2000 ISO! We don't have to light this!" And that's a very unwise philosophy for shooting. Keeping an eye on specular highlights is really critical for a lot of these scenes... even worse if it gets into blown out windows or faces.

I believe Dan Moran over on MixingLight.com had a recent discussion where he was able to salvage some overexposed material by the use of the Layer Mixer, taking a separate feed from the original source material and laying in a lower exposure on top of the good one. I thought this was an imaginative approach that can work in some situations.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 6:20 am

Marc Wielage wrote:
Bryan Worsley wrote:Nice summary of the various techniques Marc, but I'm curious why you consider highlight pull-down using the (Primaries) 'HL' control 'a bit of a crutch' ?

If it's clipped as in "slammed to the wall at 60MPH," then it's not going to do that much.


Agree entirely. There's not really anything to be gained in pulling down hard-clipped highlights.

That said, even applying some 'HL' pull-down (-25) to the screen shot Elliot posted helped to lessen the glow on the faces and reveal a little more hair detail. But of course you lose some global contrast in the process, so it's swings and roundabouts.

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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 10:11 am

Using a layer mixer with a multiplier in the keyed highlights can help as Marc was alluding to. Needs to be very carefully used but with small amounts of highlight reduction it can be quite effective.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 3:55 pm

I used to use 'blend mode' techniques quite extensively in other software that lacked, or offered relatively poor equivalents to the Highlight/Shadow manipulation tools that are available in Resolve. A favorite was a Softlight composite blend where the duplicate top layer was inverted, producing a negative S curve. Often better results could be achieved by applying the transform to the luma only. Again though I'd be a bit hesitant about using them on skin tones.

Unless Elliot provides some original samples straight from the camera it's difficult to say what could be the best solution in this case:

Jean Claude wrote:
Elliott James wrote:Dear All,
...
If it is ok, I could upload a brief video clip so that members can see exactly what the problem is and whether there might be a solution. ...
Many thanks,
Elliott


Hello,
Post a link to a piece of clip overexposed via Wetransfert or other but above all: it is not transcoded => source that the real source output camera .. but which camera? :)
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 6:16 pm

Elliott James wrote:Here is a still (screenshot) of one scene in particular that suffers from the overexposure/glow (There are other scenes with the exact same problem) for reference. I can also link an unlisted brief clip from my Youtube channel if that helps.
Thanks in advance.

Could you share an unaltered (no LUTs, no colorspace conversions, no LGG adjustments etc) DPX export of the frame?
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 6:53 pm

On an image it's easy but on a clip => to see ... :oops:

I would go with a first node and a Gamut Mapping to remove as much as possible from that is burned (unfortunately the hair of the heroine at one place is really burned)
gamut.jpg
gamut.jpg (382.56 KiB) Viewed 468 times


Then the same clip in another node and a mixer key "Color"
layer color.jpg
layer color.jpg (444.36 KiB) Viewed 468 times


To finish on the last node some adjustments to the choice.
adjust.jpg
adjust.jpg (445.82 KiB) Viewed 468 times


(On an image it's easy) :)
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 12:20 am

Bryan Worsley wrote:I used to use 'blend mode' techniques quite extensively in other software that lacked, or offered relatively poor equivalents to the Highlight/Shadow manipulation tools that are available in Resolve. A favorite was a Softlight composite blend where the duplicate top layer was inverted, producing a negative S curve. Often better results could be achieved by applying the transform to the luma only. Again though I'd be a bit hesitant about using them on skin tones.

Unless Elliot provides some original samples straight from the camera it's difficult to say what could be the best solution in this case:

Jean Claude wrote:
Elliott James wrote:Dear All,
...
If it is ok, I could upload a brief video clip so that members can see exactly what the problem is and whether there might be a solution. ...
Many thanks,
Elliott


Hello,
Post a link to a piece of clip overexposed via Wetransfert or other but above all: it is not transcoded => source that the real source output camera .. but which camera? :)

Sorry Bryan, I've been out of town for the weekend and just checked this. Yes, I will post a sample straight from the camera at some point tomorrow (Monday). Thank you again.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 12:28 am

Cary Knoop wrote:
Elliott James wrote:Here is a still (screenshot) of one scene in particular that suffers from the overexposure/glow (There are other scenes with the exact same problem) for reference. I can also link an unlisted brief clip from my Youtube channel if that helps.
Thanks in advance.

Could you share an unaltered (no LUTs, no colorspace conversions, no LGG adjustments etc) DPX export of the frame?

Hi Cary, yes I will do that tomorrow. I'll be honest, the shooting set up was as budget as you can get with the footage being shot at 1080p, .mov format. But I appreciate the feedback.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 12:30 am

Jean Claude wrote:On an image it's easy but on a clip => to see ... :oops:

I would go with a first node and a Gamut Mapping to remove as much as possible from that is burned (unfortunately the hair of the heroine at one place is really burned)
gamut.jpg


Then the same clip in another node and a mixer key "Color"
layer color.jpg


To finish on the last node some adjustments to the choice.
adjust.jpg


(On an image it's easy) :)

Thank you very much for going to the trouble Jean Claude. I really appreciate this.
If it's ok, I will submit something, unaltered from the camera tomorrow.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 12:56 pm

Sometimes you can salvage small clipped areas by overlaying a blurred version and keying out everything except the topmost part of the histogram and playing with blend modes. I wouldn't go with Jean Claude's method because aside from being overly saturated, dimming the whole image like that isn't going to convincingly fake any extra dynamic range. You need to let areas like the sky clip, to distract away from the pulled down highlights on the hair/faces.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 5:09 pm

Micha Clazing wrote:...
I wouldn't go with Jean Claude's method because aside from being overly saturated...


Hello Micha :
We can also reduce the saturation: it is according to his choice .. ;)

less SAT.jpg
less SAT.jpg (439.01 KiB) Viewed 372 times
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 5:39 pm

Dear Marc, Bryan, Jean Claude & Cary,
Please find 2, unaltered DPX Files from this particular scene of my film (from 2 camera angles but both affected by overexposure) for your reference. Please let me know if you have any problems with the link. Hopefully it will give you the full picture (if you pardon the pun) as to my problem. Thank you very much for the feedback and suggestions so far, I appreciate it. :)
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/d0c5c3dc8a23115fcbb53f363cd1485220181112173222/6d6b25
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 6:27 pm

Thanks!

That looks like a hard clip evenly in all channels. It's possible, but I wonder if there is something left in the super-whites that got clipped?

Which camera was this recorded on? And was it recorded with video or data levels? If it was recorded with video levels could you set the clip attribute levels to data and export an unaltered dpx?
Last edited by Cary Knoop on Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 6:44 pm

Elliott James wrote:Dear Marc, Bryan, Jean Claude & Cary,
Please let me know if you have any problems with the link.

Hello,
No issue here.. :)

Thank you for the DPX.
Some small adjustments : DPX has more dynamics than a JPG but the principle remains the same.

See the Overexposed glow on faces_hair.DRP

Import this project (unzip before) and redo the links with the .DRP sources (media Tab). After: to test different LGG (test done quickly, the WE have more time ...)
with_dpx.jpg
with_dpx.jpg (456.43 KiB) Viewed 349 times


Overexposed glow on faces_hair.zip
(278.47 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

:)
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 7:34 pm

Cary Knoop wrote:That looks like a hard clip evenly in all channels. It's possible, but I wonder if there is something left in the super-whites that got clipped?

Which camera was this recorded on? And was it recorded with video or data levels? If it was recorded with video levels could you set the clip attribute levels to data and export an unaltered dpx?


My thoughts exactly. Difficult to say from a grabbed still without more information. Need to establish if it was originally recorded with 'Full' (0-255 in 8bit, 0-1023 in 10bit) or strict 'Limited' (16-235, 64-940) lumimance range and the highlights clipped in camera or if it was recorded with so called 'Extended' (16-255, 64-1023) luminance range and the super-whites only appear 'clipped' on the timeline (and grabbed still) because the footage was imported at Video data levels, in which case there could still be super-white data to work with.

That's why a sample clip straight from the camera would have been more helpful. But let me also ask - was the footage imported at Video or Full data levels ? If it was 'Auto', switch between Video and Full in the Clip Attributes to see which profile matches on the scopes. If it was imported at Video levels, please provide a matched frame still grabbed at Full data levels.

I know Cary was basically asking the same thing, but if you are not sure what luminance range the original footage was recorded in, that should be immediately apparent from the matched 'Video' and 'Full' data level stills. MediaInfo may report 'Full' or 'Limited' range but you can't know if 'Limited' means true 'broadcast safe' limiting (16-235) or extension into the super-whites (16-255). A sample clip would be better though.

We still don't know what camera this was recorded on.

You bumped me as I was posting Jean-Claude

Edit: No disrespect to your advice Jean Claude. I just think it's important to first verify that what we see is 'hard clipping' or 'virtual-timeline clipping'.
Last edited by Bryan Worsley on Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 10:30 pm

Hi everyone,
Please find a link to this .mov file, straight from the camera. It's just a 2 second test clip for that particular angle but features the blown out hair/skin of the female character.
I'll also list the camera particulars shortly. Thank you. :)
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/9bca65ab41e9953fbca339a2c07e655c20181112221955/035df7
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 11:24 pm

Well it's 'Full Range', that's for sure, and MediaInfo reports recording format to be relatively low bitrate (19.9Mbps) HD-AVC (Baseline@L4.1).
Last edited by Bryan Worsley on Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 11:30 pm

Yes, that's a full level video, it's all hard clipped.
Also the video is Rec601 matrix originated.
Was it an (old) Canon DSLR?
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 11:42 pm

Hi Everyone,
3 cameras were used, but ALL were just a little above entry level. Part of the reason was stylistic choice, as the film is a mock documentary about a bumbling "internet age" filmmaker and his assistant (in search of a missing Canadian film crew and a large, aquatic cryptid, said to lurk in Lake Windermere).

After an initial dress rehearsal/test shoot using Canon and Olympus bridge cameras, we found we liked the "in your face look" so to speak. Much of the time I used the wide angle at f3.4 which gave a slightly flat, disoriented feel and it just seemed fitting so I went with it. That and pretty much no budget. Of course, audio was recorded on a separate field recorder (obviously not included in the clip I posted).

The clips I have posted are from the Olympus SP-820UZ. Just a few particulars - CMOS image sensor, CMOS contrast detection, Exposure Compensation - ±2 EV steps in 1/3 EV steps, Movie format - MOV/H.264. There's pretty much just rudimentary control of the exposure, nothing particularly sensitive as you might imagine. Bit depth is 8 bits. I've attached a screen shot of the main file's properties below.

I realise there is only so much one can do, especially when using extremely low budget equipment to shoot a feature film :? , but I have had no problems with the .mov files in DaVinci Resolve so far, they respond well so I'm just wondering how much I can push them with regard to this, slight problem. I should also add that I intend to run a B&W LUT over much of the film once I'm happy with the assembly edit. I'm assuming that it's still advisable to correct/fake balanced dynamics/highlights first though?

Well, thank you all very, very much for your advice and suggestions so far, I really appreciate it. :)
*Please let me know if there's anything I've omitted*
Attachments
MediaInfo 2.jpg
MediaInfo 2.jpg (417.75 KiB) Viewed 293 times
Last edited by Elliott James on Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 11:43 pm

Cary Knoop wrote:Yes, that's a full level video, it's all hard clipped.
Also the video is Rec601 matrix originated.
Was it an (old) Canon DSLR?

Hi Cary, no it was an Olympus SP. Please see above, just posted some particulars. Thanks.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 11:51 pm

Elliott James wrote:I should also add that I intend to run a B&W lut over much of the film once I'm happy with the assembly edit. I'm assuming that it's still advisable to correct/fake balanced dynamics/highlights first though?

The color channels are actually still useful when your end result is B&W. If you look online, you can find some information about this. Ansel Adams used colored filters frequently when shooting B&W work, the same principles apply here.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 11:57 pm

Jean Claude wrote:
Elliott James wrote:Dear Marc, Bryan, Jean Claude & Cary,
Please let me know if you have any problems with the link.

Hello,
No issue here.. :)

Thank you for the DPX.
Some small adjustments : DPX has more dynamics than a JPG but the principle remains the same.

See the Overexposed glow on faces_hair.DRP

Import this project (unzip before) and redo the links with the .DRP sources (media Tab). After: to test different LGG (test done quickly, the WE have more time ...)
with_dpx.jpg


Overexposed glow on faces_hair.zip

:)

That is very kind of you Jean Claude. Thank you very much for this, I will give it a try and let you know how things go. Much appreciated. :)
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 11:58 pm

Cary Knoop wrote:Also the video is Rec601 matrix originated.

Yes, you're right Cary. I didn't pick-up on that.

Elliott James wrote: I should also add that I intend to run a B&W LUT over much of the film once I'm happy with the assembly edit. I'm assuming that it's still advisable to correct/fake balanced dynamics/highlights first though?

Heck , if you're going to stylize it, go 'gritty bleach' and your worries are over.
Last edited by Bryan Worsley on Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 12:03 am

Jack Fairley wrote:
Elliott James wrote:I should also add that I intend to run a B&W lut over much of the film once I'm happy with the assembly edit. I'm assuming that it's still advisable to correct/fake balanced dynamics/highlights first though?

The color channels are actually still useful when your end result is B&W. If you look online, you can find some information about this. Ansel Adams used colored filters frequently when shooting B&W work, the same principles apply here.

Thanks for this. I realised that would be the case and want to create as much depth as possible before finalising in B&W.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 12:08 am

Bryan Worsley wrote:
Elliott James wrote: I should also add that I intend to run a B&W LUT over much of the film once I'm happy with the assembly edit. I'm assuming that it's still advisable to correct/fake balanced dynamics/highlights first though?

Heck , if you're going to stylize it, go 'gritty bleach' and your worries are over.

Ha ha! That's certainly an option if all else fails! Thanks.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 1:06 am

Bryan Worsley wrote:
Cary Knoop wrote:Also the video is Rec601 matrix originated.

Yes, you're right Cary. I didn't pick-up on that.


Appears that some Canon DSLR's recorded video in a similar way :

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168424

I doubt very much that (pre)converting the color matrix to bt709 would make any difference in this context though.

Elliott James wrote:
Bryan Worsley wrote:Heck , if you're going to stylize it, go 'gritty bleach' and your worries are over.

Ha ha! That's certainly an option if all else fails! Thanks.


I wasn't being facetious, btw. C'mon, dank and windy Lake District, missing film crew, aquatic cryptids lurking in Lake Windermere, Kendal mint cake - I'm thinking 'foreboding' - it would be perfect ;)
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 2:01 am

Jack Fairley wrote:The color channels are actually still useful when your end result is B&W. If you look online, you can find some information about this. Ansel Adams used colored filters frequently when shooting B&W work, the same principles apply here.

Yes, the RGB mixer can do amazing things in Monochrome mode. That's the secret to getting a great B&W look. And this is all covered in the manual and in basic Resolve tutorials.

Merely throwing a LUT over it won't do the job. The colorist has to do the hard work of actually correcting the image to look good, based on how it was shot. The LUT has no idea how it was shot, and that's a huge problem.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 2:12 am

Bryan Worsley wrote:
Bryan Worsley wrote:
Cary Knoop wrote:Also the video is Rec601 matrix originated.

Yes, you're right Cary. I didn't pick-up on that.


Appears that some Canon DSLR's recorded video in a similar way :

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168424

I doubt very much that (pre)converting the color matrix to bt709 would make any difference in this context though.

Elliott James wrote:
Bryan Worsley wrote:Heck , if you're going to stylize it, go 'gritty bleach' and your worries are over.

Ha ha! That's certainly an option if all else fails! Thanks.


I wasn't being facetious, btw. C'mon, dank and windy Lake District, missing film crew, aquatic cryptids lurking in Lake Windermere, Kendal mint cake - I'm thinking 'foreboding' - it would be perfect ;)

As you've gathered, it is somewhat of a comedy/mockumentary (how could it be anything but with my earlier description! :lol: ), so it's probably difficult to not be facetious, ha ha! Seriously though, it is actually something I thought about, pretty much for the reasons you've given here. In that case would you just recommend simply color correcting as best I can, then applying a bleached out LUT or should it just be done manually seeing as the LUTs are for 709? Assuming I was to go with the "gritty bleach" look? Thanks.
Last edited by Elliott James on Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 2:16 am

If you have the time, learn to do it yourself. As Mark said, the LUT doesn't know how it was shot. I think the Resolve training book includes a bleach bypass look in one of the lessons.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 1:03 pm

Using the blur method described earlier, plus a simple qualifier to equalise the burnt out blue shirt, I am able to get the following result:

Image

It's by no means perfect but I am not a fan of heavy handed approaches, so this is purely a light adjustment to get rid of the most obvious overexposure. I intentionally tried to leave the flowers alone because their presence gives the illusion of more dynamic range than is present in the actual shot.

Olympus digital cameras have a long history of overexposing shots in their auto and program modes, by the way.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 2:37 pm

Micha Clazing wrote:Using the blur method described earlier, plus a simple qualifier to equalise the burnt out blue shirt, I am able to get the following result:

Image

It's by no means perfect but I am not a fan of heavy handed approaches, so this is purely a light adjustment to get rid of the most obvious overexposure. I intentionally tried to leave the flowers alone because their presence gives the illusion of more dynamic range than is present in the actual shot.

Olympus digital cameras have a long history of overexposing shots in their auto and program modes, by the way.

Thank you for going to the trouble Micha. :) As Cary and Bryan have explained to me (which I did suspect), all the colour properties have distorted and caused the blown out areas, I realise due to the limitations of the camera and sensor.

I'm glad you mention that Olympus have a history in this area because, though I did use a few techniques for diffusing light where practical/possible, in some instances the image would still default to being blown out in areas. And You're correct, I shot in program mode with control of WB,ISO and EXP, though they are not very sensitive. So there was only so much I could dial down the exposure before things became too murky and I doubt that all of that information would have been recoverable in post, again due to the rudimentary nature of the camera. So I only dialed down -0.3 here.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 6:13 pm

Hello,

From the MOV it changes the deal (the metaDatas ...) ;) :
Simple solution: a Splitter combine and reduce the blue channel
After which settings on an output node ...

from_mov.jpg
from_mov.jpg (449.45 KiB) Viewed 187 times

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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 10:02 pm

FWIW, here's my quick go at it, again just aimed at lessening the glow and recovering a bit more highlight detail:

Image

Nothing fancy

First Node: Primaries HL tool: -8.0
Layer Node: Composite Mode - Multiply. Top 'Layer' Node - Monochrome, Gain 0.260
Last Node: Primary Wheels - Gamma: +0.03, Mid-Tone Detail: +16

Edit: Maybe could push the Multiply blend a bit more and boost Saturation a tad, but that's the general tack.
Edit: Saturation: +55.8
Image
Last edited by Bryan Worsley on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 11:38 pm

Micha, Jean Claude & Bryan,
Thank you for the time you have put into adjusting the image here. I've learnt a lot from the replies to this topic and am most grateful. Now I will take everything into consideration and apply it. :)
I will stop by again to let you all know how things are going at some stage.
Thank you.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 11:44 pm

Hey, give me regards to Bownessie ;) I'm originally from Manchester. Spent a lot of time up in the Lakes.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 1:13 am

Hey Bryan. Thanks again. Wow, Manchester, what a small world!
And how did you know I was doing a movie about Bownessie?! Well, I guess it's fairly easy to work out, but still, maybe I'm onto something eh?! :lol: And if Charlie Sheen can get a guy to row him out into the middle of Loch Ness and toss a leg of lamb into the depths, hoping to lure a monster, I reckon it's worth me revealing Nessie's English cousin to audiences... ;)
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 10:08 pm

Bryan Worsley wrote:
Cary Knoop wrote:Also the video is Rec601 matrix originated.

Yes, you're right Cary. I didn't pick-up on that.

Elliott James wrote: I should also add that I intend to run a B&W LUT over much of the film once I'm happy with the assembly edit. I'm assuming that it's still advisable to correct/fake balanced dynamics/highlights first though?

Heck , if you're going to stylize it, go 'gritty bleach' and your worries are over.

Hi Bryan,
Just one last question -Do you mean abandoning trying to repair the blown out/clipping and simply creating a layer node and desaturating? If so, will the overexposed shots still standout from the rest of the more balanced shots, or will it be so extreme that every shot/clip is disguised with this "gritty bleach" look as you call it? Cheers. :)
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 11:07 pm

Image

Not sure if this is considered a better or worse result than other people got but it seems it can hold being darkened a decent bit afterwards without looking completely weird.

Image
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostThu Nov 15, 2018 1:02 am

Mark Grgurev wrote:Image

Not sure if this is considered a better or worse result than other people got but it seems it can hold being darkened a decent bit afterwards without looking completely weird.

Image

Thanks Mark. Can I ask how many nodes you used? Cheers.
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Re: Overexposed glow on faces/hair - Is there a fix in Post?

PostThu Nov 15, 2018 3:01 am

Elliott James wrote:Thanks Mark. Can I ask how many nodes you used? Cheers.


Eight. Seven corrector nodes and a combiner node.
Last edited by Mark Grgurev on Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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