True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

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monkbrain

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True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 12:40 am

Hello all,

I shoot, edit, and grade BMPCC 1080 RAW footage and wish to upgrade to a true, 10-bit monitor.
My Quadro GPU outputs 10-bit, as does the Decklink Mini Monitor over SDI or HDMI 1.4. A SDI monitor is out of the question, and I'm unaware of any SDI-to-displayport converters, so I'm focusing my search on a true 10-bit monitor (not 8-bit +FRC) with HDMI inputs. I've spent hours searching, and have been unable to find a true-10-bit 1920x1080 monitor. It's seems they're just not making them anymore. I can of course go for a 2K or 4K monitor, but I'm concerned about what the upscaling of 1080 footage to a 4K monitor will do during the grading process. Is this trepidation unfounded? If one is grading 1080 footage, is it not best practice to connect the Decklink to a monitor of the same resolution?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions on this,
Monk
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MishaEngel

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 2:15 am

Eizo CS230.

You will need a HDMI to displayPort adapter to get the full 10 bits color.

https://www.eizoglobal.com/products/coloredge/cs230/index.html#tab02

Around € 500 incl. VAT for a new one in Europe
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monkbrain

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 3:11 am

MishaEngel wrote:Eizo CS230.
You will need a HDMI to displayPort adapter to get the full 10 bits color.
https://www.eizoglobal.com/products/coloredge/cs230/index.html#tab02


Hi Misha,
Thank you for the link to the monitor. An Eizo would be perfect. So far, it's the only 10-bit 1080 monitor with HDMI. Great find!

So when you say 'full 10-bit color', do you mean 4:4:4 10-bit color? I was almost certain that the Decklink Mini Monitor does 4:2:2 10-bit over HDMI, which I'd be fine with. I seek bit depth over color sampling. I searched around here, and some posts say the Decklink's HDMI is 8-bit, others say 10-bit.
viewtopic.php?t=54002#p374582
The specs for Decklink Mini say "Color Precision 8-bit & 10-bit" and "Video Sampling" YUV 4:2:2.
I know the Mini Monitor 4K Decklink card does 4:4:4 10-bit over HDMI 2.0. Maybe I'll need to upgrade to that one instead...

What might be your opinion on upscaling 1080 footage to a 4K monitor during grading however?
If one is grading 1080 footage, is it best practice to connect the Decklink to a monitor of the same resolution? I'd have a lot more choices if I wasn't restricting myself to using a 1080 monitor.

Thanks again,
Monk
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John Griffin

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 6:25 am

I've got an ASUS ProArt PA249Q hooked up via HDMI + decklink as my reference monitor for grading. While I trust the colours the actual image quality isn't that great in terms of detail. After using various other higher res monitors for working on images I'm coming to the conclusion that either HD at 24" is just not enough resolution or that upscaling just creates a better image. We are now seeing more 4k and even 8k TV's on the market and from what I have seen you don't need 4k or 8k source material to see the image quality benefits in terms of how it produces a more natural looking image.
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dirk-pel

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 12:00 pm

I use also a Eizo-CS2420 via the Display Port.
This one is color calibrated, cost about in Germany 700€

Dirk PEL
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MishaEngel

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 1:25 pm

Most UHD monitors can handle 1080p signals natively, check the specifications, BenQ's are pretty good UHD monitors that have support for native 1080p signals https://www.benq.com/en/monitor/photographer/sw271.html When possible I would upgrade to the DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K to get 444 output at 1080p. The SW240 is a nice 1920x1200 monitor and pretty good for color grading https://www.benq.com/en/monitor/photographer/sw240/specifications.html
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Jim Simon

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 6:33 pm

My Biases:

You NEED training.
You NEED a desktop.
You NEED a calibrated (non-computer) display.
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monkbrain

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 6:55 pm

Jim Simon wrote:https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100160979%20600012673%20600012201


Haha. That's cheating. I never trust these check boxes although I admit already tried that route out of sheer desperation. That NEC is an 8-bit monitor, unfortunately. Thanks for helping me out though. And have a great Saturday!
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monkbrain

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 7:05 pm

MishaEngel wrote:Most UHD monitors can handle 1080p signals natively, check the specifications, BenQ's are pretty good UHD monitors that have support for native 1080p signals https://www.benq.com/en/monitor/photographer/sw271.html When possible I would upgrade to the DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K to get 444 output at 1080p. The SW240 is a nice 1920x1200 monitor and pretty good for color grading https://www.benq.com/en/monitor/photographer/sw240/specifications.html


Very good advice on upgrading to the Decklink 4k Mini Monitor. As for how UHD monitors 'natively' handle 1080p signals, I'm aware of some with a menu option where you set the native input format, and it will show 1080p windowed - no upscaling to the screens max resolution. I really don't want to grade on upscaled pixels. Anyway, you've provided me several good options and things to consider. I really appreciate your time.
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Asus Strix RTX 2080Ti v431.70
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Jim Simon

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 7:10 pm

monkbrain wrote:That NEC is an 8-bit monitor, unfortunately.


According to NEC, it's 10 bit.
My Biases:

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You NEED a desktop.
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monkbrain

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 7:24 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
monkbrain wrote:That NEC is an 8-bit monitor, unfortunately.


According to NEC, it's 10 bit.


I'm hoping you're correct as I love NEC monitors. It appears, at least in New Zealand however, that it's 8-bit. Or maybe I'm reading something incorrectly. Manufacturers are so cryptic with their specs. https://nz.nec.com/en_NZ/pdfs/nz/NZ-P232W-BK.pdf

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Asus X299 DeluxeII
i9-9820x 3.30GHz
64GB DDR42133
Asus Strix RTX 2080Ti v431.70
Decklink MiniMonitor 4K
Win10 Pro for Workstations, v21H1
Resolve Studio 17.4 Bld12
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Cache: 2TB NVMe M.2 SSD
Corsair H110i GTX cooler
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Janis Lionel

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 10:26 pm

Except for the top of the line reference monitors of eizo, all others are 8 bit + FCR..but I have one; it doesn't matter!
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monkbrain

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostSun Nov 18, 2018 11:49 pm

Janis Lionel wrote:Except for the top of the line reference monitors of eizo, all others are 8 bit + FCR..but I have one; it doesn't matter!


Haha. You should sell me yours then and upgrade.
There are some BenQs and others with true 10-bit however, but they may lack the 3D luts and other fine features.
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Jim Simon

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 3:25 pm

monkbrain wrote:It appears, at least in New Zealand however, that it's 8-bit.


Odd. Here's the NEC web site:

https://www.necdisplay.com/p/desktop-monitors/p232w-bk
My Biases:

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monkbrain

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 8:05 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
monkbrain wrote:It appears, at least in New Zealand however, that it's 8-bit.


Odd. Here's the NEC web site:

https://www.necdisplay.com/p/desktop-monitors/p232w-bk


Odd indeed. Thanks for this! I'm considering this monitor, so this is great news, as I do not reside in New Zealand.
Asus X299 DeluxeII
i9-9820x 3.30GHz
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Asus Strix RTX 2080Ti v431.70
Decklink MiniMonitor 4K
Win10 Pro for Workstations, v21H1
Resolve Studio 17.4 Bld12
OS: 512GB NVMe M.2 SSD
Cache: 2TB NVMe M.2 SSD
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kivanckaranis

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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostFri Dec 21, 2018 1:49 am

As stated by one of the moderators of the community at dell.com, with username "DELL-Chris M",
As of 2018, Dell monitors with TRUE 10-bits panels are :

    U3818DW
    UP3218K
    UP3216Q
    UP3017Q
    U3014
    UP2718Q
    UP2715K

( I was mistaken with my UP2516D. It is unfortunately 8bit+FCR)
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Re: True 10-bit 1080 monitor w/HDMI

PostFri May 21, 2021 3:44 pm

Hi there,

I'm in exactly this situation right now and was wondering if anyone could advise on the options (below) I've narrowed down to.

Context
I'm limited in space at the moment and as I still find myself finishing a lot of projects in HD 1080p due to editing both a mixture of UHD and HD footage within each project I'm just looking for an interim 1080p monitor as it will help save a bit of the budget for the filming side of my shopping list. Also at 24", there's no logic paying for 4k with such crammed pixels, with little visually discernible benefit. At the same time as saving, I'm making sure to squeeze the best quality out for my budget as I can and I've got a minimum spec I won't sacrifice on.

I'm trying to make sure this pipeline is future proofed for when I move to a larger 4k monitor in the near future though which has made this a bit of task. I've been researching tirelessly for a few months. The main issue which seems to thwart making that final choice, revolves around no DisplayPort port options on Decklink models. At the time of writing pretty desperate to buy in a Thunderbolt PCIe Chassis, decklink card and a monitor. It's more than overdue relative to the time I've put into reading reviews', spec sheets and endless forum discussions. But I need to be really sure on a couple of final decisions before I go on a spending spree to save expensive mistakes/false economies.

Problem
I'll get a either Decklink Mini Monitor 4k, Decklink Studio 4k or an Intensity Pro 4k. Analogue capture, DCI 4k and HDMI 2.0 will most influential in the final decision. I've been discussing with BM tech support about downscaling in software when there is no hardware downscaling from UHD to HD. Seems to have put that to bed in terms of any concerns. The problem that's got me stuck between a rock and hard place though is that all the cards all SDI and HDMI output or HDMI output only. This is causing a real headache on what are my two final options below:

BenQ SW240 -
Pro's: Decent quality, internal LUT
Con's: 250 nits, 8bit+FRC (but can live with both) but no 10 bit signal over HDMI (even though it's HDMI 1.4 and 10bit was introduced in HDMI 1.3)

Eizo Colour Edge CS2420
Pros: True 10 bit, internal LUT AND 10 bit over HDMI. (Least the spec sheet reads 1.07 billion colours on both Displayport and HDMI)
Cons: No Rec.709 - just sRGB

I threw out what seemed like the only other two viable 24" options: Eizo Colour Edge 2320 as it's no longer available and in this thread it said that it was 10 bit over Displayport only as well, and the HP DreamColour 24zx as it doesn't seem to be the same quality build under the hood as it's 27" big brother and many people here have spoken of a purple cast malfunction after prolonged use. Any other models are either too hobbyist or conversley, too high in price for a 24" HD model when I'll spend a lot more on a larger, higher end 4K spec in the mid-term future.

Questions
I would have jumped on the Eizo if it had Rec.709. The difference between Rec.709 and sRGB seems really minimal, gamma 2.2 vs 2.4 is the only thing that stands out. Don't think that's a deal breaker for the level I work at. Is there anything I should be prudent about here regarding sRGB?

But before I potentially move on the Eizo, I wanted to ask for advice, particularly from the other posters in this thread on what the outcome was for them? Other questions I have based on the following I've read on these boards are:

1. If a monitor will genuinely do 10 bit over HDMI is this going to be okay outputting from the Decklink? I've read numerous criticisms about HDMI on the BM Deck links but not really how any such issues manifest particularly. Some have said to simply avoid HDMI and use SDI instead. If I could afford an SDI monitor right now though I'd be on easy street and wouldn't be writing this post.

2. It's been recommended on these boards to convert SDI to DisplayPort from a Decklink instead. But there are so few options for SDI to DP conversion. I could buy several monitors over for the price of some of these specialist converters. May as well buy a monitor with SDI connections if I could afford that much. The only option I could find at totally the other end of the cost scale is to take advantage of the fact I'm going to be using a 1080p monitor for now and buy a second hand BM HD Link Pro, the only affordable option I know of which has SDI in and DisplayPort out. But after going down another days long rabbit hole all I could conclude was that the driver software is no longer supported and doesn't works on recent version of Mac OSX

3. It's been mentioned above, to convert HDMI to DisplayPort from the Decklink? But if it were that simple and cost effective, why are users here so focussed on converting from SDI to DisplayPort at such trouble and expense? :?:

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated as I've got to the stage where I'm too cautious to start shelling out on all the elements of my pipeline yet I desperately need to get set up.

Many thanks!
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