Exporting 16 audio channels in one track

Hi All,

So we just had to setup a large video installation at the Venice Biennale, with video and 16 channels of audio playing from a Hyperdeck Studio Pro.

We tried to create our playback file in Resolve 15.3, but couldn't work out how to get it to export more than 8 functional audio channels at any one time, even after hours of testing and googling.

We tried using the 'link group' command in fairlight, this only gave us 8 channels.

We tried sending sixteen tracks to a multitrack bus - this only gave us one channel

We tried patching track sends from 16 mono tracks to an adaptive 16 channel track. This plays correctly in resolve but when rendered into a .mov file all 16 channels are empty!

In the end we had to use Adobe Premiere to finish the job, which for our purposes isn't ideal. Are we missing something? I remember this was trivially easy to achieve in the Render page on Resolve 12.5

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Tom Janson

yea... Pp, DS, Flame, Baselight, Nucoda, and prolly iMovie works too

but you're kinda hosed in Resolve since v12.5

wasn't broke, but it got "fixed" anyway.... and we all know how that ends

We tried using the 'link group' command in fairlight, this only gave us 8 channels.

Linked Groups only accept 8 feeds (i.e. 7.1 fixed channel configurations - SMPTE or Film Channel order)

We tried sending sixteen tracks to a multitrack bus - this only gave us one channel

MultiTrack Busses are Mono, intended for summing feeds.

We tried patching track sends from 16 mono tracks to an adaptive 16 channel track. This plays correctly in resolve but when rendered into a .mov file all 16 channels are empty!

Which Deliver Settings were used?

Based on your description, it appears no Timeline processing is present or required, is that correct?

On the Deliver page's settings, you can use Timeline Tracks as the Output Track, or if summing feeds in to a MultiTrack Buss, these will also be available in the Output Track drop-down listing.

Resolve 16 also provides an option to select "All Timeline Tracks" as the Output Track, which would produce a single audio stream containing 16 Channels (matching the Timeline Track count).

Deliver Settings.png (50.95 KiB) Viewed 9017 times

Hi Reynaud,

Thanks for your reply. Delivery settings used were - Quicktime with ProRes HQ UHD Video, with 16 Channels 16-bit PCM.

You are correct, no timeline processing required - just need to gather the channels together and put them into one track.

You mentioned using a multitrack bus as the output track - but as you also said, multi track busses are always mono?

It seems technically that the only possible way to do this in resolve is to send 16 mono tracks to an adaptive 16 channel track - but when rendered as a .mov all 16 tracks are empty. Either a bug, or I'm missing something big..

Thanks for the Resolve 16 tip, but I don't think we're ready to upgrade yet.

Any further suggestions, let me know - I'm happy to do a quick test

Renauld:
in v15 timeline -> deliver is limited to 8 tracks
v16 is beta1 currently, not a great work around.

Renauld:
in v15 timeline -> deliver is limited to 8 tracks
v16 is beta1 currently, not a great work around.

Dermot, 15.3 also outputs multiple Tracks. Often 24 Channel deliverables are created without issue in 15.3. The same procedures were available in version 14 beta 1 over two years ago.

Using version 16 today, so not able to confirm the drop-down listing options in 15.3 if the "All Timeline Tracks" option is available (hence posting a screenshot from version 16 as illustration just in case).

we just had to setup a large video installation at the Venice Biennale

and i've just finished gradeing a large video installation for the Venice Biennale.... but i'm assumeing not the same one

Renauld:
in v15 timeline -> deliver is limited to 8 tracks
v16 is beta1 currently, not a great work around.

Dermot, 15.3 also outputs multiple Tracks. Often 24 Channel deliverables are created without issue in 15.3. The same procedures were available in version 14 beta 1 over two years ago.

Using version 16 today, so not able to confirm the drop-down listing options in 15.3 if the "All Timeline Tracks" option is available (hence posting a screenshot from version 16 as illustration just in case).

All Timeline Tracks" option is new in v16, i have one machine with v16. but have been slammed with deadline related work so v16 is not seeing much time - maybe next week

there is some complicated, error prone and poorly documented workarounds for a simple track router

my answer for now is to use another software for packageing and versioning, i will go for reliability first, flexiabilty a distant second, whatever Resolve had gained in flexibality it has lost twice in reliability

Tom: you did not do anything wrong, it not you, it's Resolve....

You are correct, no timeline processing required - just need to gather the channels together and put them into one track.

With 16 Mono Timeline Audio Tracks, on the Deliver page specify 16 Mono Output Tracks in Single Clip mode. Clicking the "+" button automatically adds the next Mono Timeline Audio Track to the list.

Version 16 now provides a single option for this procedure without having to do it manually.

The same result is achieved with a 16 Channel Adaptive Audio Track on the Timeline, with that Track specified as the Output Track on the Deliver page. Loading the resulting Deliverable back in to Resolve should null with the source on the Timeline.

You mentioned using a multitrack bus as the output track - but as you also said, multi track busses are always mono?

This was mentioned, as you can use MultiTrack Busses to sum multiple signals down to a mono output.
i.e. Multiple Mono Timeline Audio Tracks > single Mono MultiTrack Buss > Mono Output Track

If you need no further processing indeed a simple direct timeline tracks rendering option is there since 14 and has been mentioned in more then a few threads. I have used it since then to push out 16 channel movs with a few clicks. Now in 16 its a single click, before one click per track you wanted.
Confusion comes probably when you tried to route stuff when you dont want to, which is also not needed and then can limit you into specific supported output channel formats like 5.1 etc.
So timeline tracks rendering is the option for any sort of pass thru stuff.

Glenn is right, it can now go past 8 trks in the deliver page in v15.2.2

not sure when that was fixed as it's been a very long time since i've used deliver/audio to do anything more than a scratch mix for a screener

and i will chk out v16 next week -anything that makes the workflow more transparent and removes fail points is welcome

Glenn is right

So you’ll trust Glenn to be right, but no one else?

User error Dermot, it's always user error.

So you’ll trust Glenn to be right, but no one else?

Its my sweet smile

anything that makes the workflow more transparent and removes fail points is welcome

Ab-so-lu-te-ly !!!

And p.s. be carefull , 16 is ,although for me personally pretty solid and stable and my daily driver, still a beta.
Put it on a spare box and a separate DB. But i guess you are the last person i have to tell that to
But lets say its for all the others

Hello all,

Since the V15: no worries with a 24 tracks. It just had to be track by track for export,

24_monos.jpg

So with the V16 and "All Timeline Tracks" in 1 option: nothing to do ..

Code: Select all

General
Complete name                            : G:\Temp\24_pistes\A24-0001_all_tracks00086400.wav
Format                                   : Wave
File size                                : 310 MiB
Duration                                 : 1 min 34 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 27.6 Mb/s
Producer                                 : DaVinci Resolve
Encoded date                             : 

Audio
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed
Codec ID                                 : 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration                                 : 1 min 34 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 27.6 Mb/s
Channel(s)                               : 24 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 310 MiB (100%)


Hey Glenn, thanks for your input. Basically I had a video file with 8 channel sound in to begin with. I wanted to add another 8 channels in resolve and then render out a 16 channel .mov.

Would you be able to point me in the direction of a simple workflow to do that? Without having to do all sorts of routing..

And Dermot - pretty sure it's not the same one, ours has been up and running for more than a week now

Hey Glenn, thanks for your input. Basically I had a video file with 8 channel sound in to begin with. I wanted to add another 8 channels in resolve and then render out a 16 channel .mov.

Would you be able to point me in the direction of a simple workflow to do that? Without having to do all sorts of routing..

Hey,

In line with what was mentioned above and rendering multiple mono timeline tracks direct out to a single video, what i would do is right click on the clip in the media pool and set its attributes to 8 mono channels.
Then if you drop it into an empty timeline you end up with 8 mono tracks. (depending on your default new track preferences , but if you get 8 stereo, just turn them into mono.)
Then add 8 more mono tracks with your intended other audio. (you can do the same with multi channel audio sources of course as with the video and turn them into multi mono)
Then in deliver add all 16 mono timeline tracks (one by one for DR15 or the new “all timeline tracks” option in DR16) to render out as a single clip and you will end up with your intended single video with 16 mono audio channels.

Hey Glenn - I have tried this but what I end up with is a video file with 16 audio tracks, with each track containing a single channel.

What is needed to play on the Hyperdeck Studio Pro is a video file with one audio track, containing 16 channels - any idea how to achieve this?

More difficult scenario I think.
You need a single audio track which is 16 channels and then route your single channels as you wish. This routing still seems to be convoluted. Not sure about Resolve 16.

I would simply re-wrap your current file in ffmpeg or AME to save myself time
This should do it:

ffmpeg -i "16xmono_tracks_source.mov" -filter_complex "[0:a]amerge=inputs=16[a]" -map "[a]" -map 0:0 -c:v copy -c:a pcm_s24le "1x16output.mov"

Not sure what is required by HyperDeck, but if it complains then try pcm_s24be

I tried some idea but it didn't work and also crashed Resolve Resolve dens't even allow for single bus which is 16 channels, so no idea how to do it.

Yes I had tried this before. I just tried it again from scratch using different files. I routed 16 mono channels into one adaptive 16 channel track:

Screenshot 2019-04-24 at 10.29.19.png (212.92 KiB) Viewed 8858 times

On fairlight page I can see I have 16 active channels in the track:

Screenshot 2019-04-24 at 10.31.17.png (47.55 KiB) Viewed 8858 times

I can render it out as a 16 channel track:

Screenshot 2019-04-24 at 10.33.51.png (35.93 KiB) Viewed 8858 times

And when rendered all channels are EMPTY.

Empty in quicktime

Empty in Resolve

This has really been a bit ridiculous

This is why I prefer re-wrap with ffmpeg.
Maybe 1 day I will try to solve it (read manual etc), but for now I simply ignore it
I've also noticed that seeing something on fairlight page means nothing went comes to output.
I think you need to do it (somehow) with main bus, not by tracks.

Hyperdeck needs 1x multichannel track, but overall deliveries are rather done with many mono tracks (seems to be better supported).

Aha, misundrstood you then as this is standard and typical way of delivering large channel count material.
The times where you may output a single track with multi channels is typicaly when its a known channel relationship like 5.1 7.1 etc and goes to a decoders for that format, which individual channels may or may not have also been processed for that soundfield.
But normal unprocessed multi channel dumps are typical multi mono.

Ffmpeg or similar tools is indeed your friend and easiest.
Routing you only do if you want to process the audio (mix/remaster etc) , fancy stuff or specific monitoring requirements. Monitoring is not equal output in resolve and can be flexibly separately defined as is the nr1 cause for confusion if you dont grasp that concept and for me the best feature.
I can have at the same time multiple different monitoring pathways/mixes(stereo downmix,5.1, headphone, etc) and a yet multiple different and different processed delivery outputs / mixes at the same time all with the same patch. That is the real power of resolves routing.

P.s. resolve is doing what you told it to and the “content” of track 17 is empty., so nothing to render. You only routed signals there for monitoring or for bouncing which would work for you as well.
You tried to use a track as a bus.
For this to work in your current way of thinking, just record the mix (bounce) on track 17 and then render it out as you tried to.
There are much more ways but dont want to even confuse tou more.

Where is the export power?
So what if you can monitor in many ways if you later can't export your work the way you want (well I assume you can it just needs a bit of understanding).

Not every multichannel export needs to have order tag (5.1, stereo etc.). There are cases when you need many channels as single track, like BM own Hyperdeck

If the Export only contains digital black, with your current patching record the output of your Timeline source tracks to the destination 16 Channel Adaptive Audio Track.

With the 16 Channel Adaptive Audio Track selected as the Output Track on the Deliver page, the deliverable will contain a single stream with 16 Channels.

Where is the export power?
So what if you can monitor in many ways if you later can't export your work the way you want

Not every multichannel export needs to have order tag (5.1, stereo etc.). There are cases when you need many channels as single track, like BM own Hyperdeck

See my later edit. Its just that he mixed the concept of track and bus. A track has actual content, a bus recieves content.
So if he bounced to the track , it gets his content and can then be rendered. A bus or master can be rendered directly and has no actual content but collects signals.

What i do a lot (regarding render power i relation to monitoring) is create all kinds of intermediates where on a single video i add several track , with each different channel layouts, like a few stereo (for stereo or mid/side mics) , several mono and sometimes even a 5.1 for a field recorder ambiance.
This whole shebang i can monitor however i want on my different speaker setups , at the same time or easy switchable, without affecting this output setup.
So yeah real total power and control if you understand.

Sort of get it, but wouldn't you need 16 channels bus for this?

Sort of get it, but wouldn't you need 16 channels bus for this?

With the 16 Channel Adaptive Audio Track selected as the Output Track on the Deliver page, the deliverable will contain a single stream with 16 Channels.

This configuration bypasses all Busses in the Project.

Sort of get it, but wouldn't you need 16 channels bus for this?

Not in the way he did it. Just record aka bounce (as Reynaud said as well) the 16 channel track and then render that single 16 channel "timeline track" out directly.
No need yet to play with busses for what he needs

Ok, wasn't me. I don't know audio part in Resolve at all.
Tried something again and it ended with Resolve total crash

Does the mentioned "record" actually means playing and recoding (does Resolve create some temporary file for it)?

Ok, wasn't me. I don't know audio part in Resolve at all.

I corrected it.

Does the mentioned "record" actually means playing and recoding (does Resolve create some temporary file for it)?

Yes/Yes (location is defined in your preferences)
Like you can record an incoming microphone or instrument, you can record patched material to the track.
Common procedure in DAW's to bounce(=record) down mixes / submixes to tracks .
You can use that for example also if you have heavy processing and you want to free up your cpu resources.
You then use it like a cache, but can continue processing , cutting, etc etc.

does Resolve create some temporary file for it?

Project Preferences > Capture and Playback > Capture > Save Clips to

The destination folder contains 24bit mono broadcast wave audio files.

When Archiving a Project, these files will be included automatically, or one can manually create a back up.

Why it cannot be "mixed" on the go and send to export (like NLEs do)?

What if I have 2h feature. I need to waste 2h to do it?
Sorry, but this is so convoluted way and total waste of time. I can do this in few minutes with other NLEs. For me totally unacceptable.

There has to be a proper way, in which I just route things properly, export in few minutes and done.

Bounce is a special type of recording and does not require you 2 hrs for 2 hrs material but lightning fast internal audio only processing. Its in the timeline menu.
And (as you hate routing) does not require any routing and you can then render this as normal with your video.
So one click extra seems not too much to ask is it ?

p.s. And there is a huge plus specialy when you have a 2 hour feature. The lightning fast audio bounce gives you the opportunity to QA the final audio mix as actually rendered for any crazy render artefacts, vst issues, clipping etc etc BEFORE you run your very long final video render only to discover a single audio issue on 1 frame somewhere at 1hrs37mins.

You choose

If it's a normal (not realtime) processing then it's not end of the world, although I would like to see it possible directly from export page.

There are always a milion ways to do things in audio but we just tried to explain you the fastest non routing way to do it using timeline track rendering variations.
No bouncing down needed if you have a common multi mono (or mixed format) track output requirement or a quick single click bouncedown to your target track format if you need to cram it all into a single track multi channel format.

Hi All,

So I have tried bouncing my 16 channel mix - if I go Timeline>Bounce Mix to track, then a window pops up asking me which Bus to use, which doesn't help me.

If I select 16 mono tracks, set in/out points, and go Timeline>Bounce selected tracks to new layer, then it creates 16 seperate new wav files on top of the tracks already there.

Is there some other way to bounce?

@Yakobb,

You are correct. In all the confusion above we missed describing that bounce (currently) only works via a bus so is limited to the bus options regarding channel layouts. (unless i missed something , which is definately possible. @Reynaud, feel free to step in if i missed something)
You can however record to a target track instead of bounce if you patched the track outputs to the inputs of a 16 channel track. As mentioned before you only need to do that if you want to output a single track with 16 audio channels crammed in there . If you want the more standard 16 track of mono channels , you dont need any bouncing/recording and can directly render the timelines out.

The reason why bouncing is done via a bus is that you typicaly want full processing to be frozen and not just the track content if you bounce a mix. But it would be nice to have an option to bounce directly to a track.
There are more bounce options like bouncing individual audio effects on rightclick etc, but nothing (yet) for what you are looking for atm.

So not ideal but doable. Apologies for the confusion.

@Glenn yup bounce directly to track would be pretty handy.

Thanks everyone for helping out - I guess we will stick with Adobe or ffmpeg for now and wait for Resolve 16 stable to come out..

Thanks everyone for helping out - I guess we will stick with Adobe or ffmpeg for now and wait for Resolve 16 stable to come out..

yea... Pp, DS, Flame, Baselight, Nucoda, and prolly iMovie works too

but you're kinda hosed in Resolve since v12.5

wasn't broke, but it got "fixed" anyway.... and we all know how that ends

somehow not surprised at the outcome of all this, sad as that may be....

.../...somehow not surprised at the outcome of all this, sad as that may be....

Hello,

I can not understand how with the V16 and all the offered combinations we want the version 12.x.
I'm a stupid idiot of audio and I enjoy playing with Fairlight options as they are productive.

I can not understand how with the V16 and all the offered combinations we want the version 12.x.
I'm a stupid idiot of audio and I enjoy playing with Fairlight options as they are productive.

because the v12 track router

WORKS

EVERYTIME

WITHOUT FAIL

simple, clear, concise, low -to- no fail points all that good stuff

Occam's Razor:

"simpler solutions are more likely to be correct than complex ones." When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem

from around 1320-1340, and still worthy thought 700 years later....

If it was up to Dermot, the color page would have 3 knobs. Red, green, blue, as now it is super complicated with way too many options to do the same thing. Right ?

I remember my joy when , after struggeling with DR12 to do “anything but the most basic” in audio which caused me to dropkick my monitor out if frustration and then out of misery did it in a daw like protools or reaper with all the unneeded pain of crazy roundtrip issues, fairlight was released.
Certain workflows went from 5 pages of painfull steps to a few clicks.

But as with any move to more features, it requires a bit of efford to learn .
Like when you move from a single screwdriver that is very good at that single thing it does, to a kit with 500 screwdriver heads. You can keep complaining when you everytime pick the wrong tool, or learn what tool you need for what task and be happy. Or keep complaining that you need tool 501 which it does not have.
I know where i stand and absolutely totaly enourmously enjoy all the amazing features fairlight has to offer that allows me to do virtualy anything i want.
And it keeps getting better and better and with time. Will it satisfy everyone. Likely not.

P.s. Occams does not apply as in audio like in color there is no such thing as the correct way to do a thing.
There are dozens if not hundreds of ways and its up to the artist to pick one.