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Workflow ideas: Virtual 3D Set < Greenscreen > Fusion

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JeffreyWalther

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Workflow ideas: Virtual 3D Set < Greenscreen > Fusion

PostFri Dec 06, 2019 6:52 pm

Hi,

I am thinking about a new project and it involves:
- an entire virtual film set (made in a 3D tool)
- greenscreen shots of the actor
- both can include camera movements

How would you combine those things?
There are many ways but I am not sure which one is the better option:

Option 1
- render shots on 3D
- import actor clip + 3D world in Fusion
- do greenscreen matte there
- finish in Fusion

Option 2
- import clip in Fusion
- do greenscreen matte there
- export clip with alpha channel
- import actor clip in 3D tool
- finish in 3D tool

What would you choose?
What I can say is, that the major weight lays on the 3D parts.
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Sander de Regt

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Re: Workflow ideas: Virtual 3D Set < Greenscreen > Fusion

PostFri Dec 06, 2019 9:33 pm

It completely depends on the kind of movements you want to have eventually.
Sticking a card of an actor inside a 3D world is fine, but limits you to the amount of movement you can make.

If you create a greenscreen studio with trackable features you can track every camera movement and then reconstruct this in the 3D world. Both options have their advantages and disadvantages.

It almost always requires a lot of skill, experience and expertise to make it come out good.
(look at Attack of the Clones/Revenge of the Sith for examples where even the 3 things mentioned above didn't result in making it come out good)

So depending on your current level of expertise, I'd start out slowly before becoming really really ambitious. (this is not to discourage you, but to put your hopes in a more realistic perspective)
Sander de Regt

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JeffreyWalther

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Re: Workflow ideas: Virtual 3D Set < Greenscreen > Fusion

PostSat Dec 07, 2019 5:19 pm

Sander de Regt wrote:It completely depends on the kind of movements you want to have eventually.
Sticking a card of an actor inside a 3D world is fine, but limits you to the amount of movement you can make.

If you create a greenscreen studio with trackable features you can track every camera movement and then reconstruct this in the 3D world. Both options have their advantages and disadvantages.

It almost always requires a lot of skill, experience and expertise to make it come out good.
(look at Attack of the Clones/Revenge of the Sith for examples where even the 3 things mentioned above didn't result in making it come out good)

So depending on your current level of expertise, I'd start out slowly before becoming really really ambitious. (this is not to discourage you, but to put your hopes in a more realistic perspective)


Well, this was not an answer to my question or a question of my skills.
It was a generic question. And I do have skills on both options (that is why I prefer compositing in Fusion), but prerender any 3D animation along with its passed as single clips.
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Sander de Regt

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Re: Workflow ideas: Virtual 3D Set < Greenscreen > Fusion

PostSat Dec 07, 2019 9:35 pm

This *was* an answer to your question, because there *is* no answer to your question other than 'it depends' since there's no such thing as a generic VFX shot. A virtual 3D set of a newsroom where your actor is the anchor is totally different in approach than a photorealistic jungle through which your actor leaps, jumps and runs and slides.

And I wasn't questioning your skill, I was asking about your skill level which is something completely different. Because my reply to someone who has just started out in VFX will be different than my reply to someone who has worked as a 2D compositor on 20 different movies and who is trying to work with 3D for the first time. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to help.
Sander de Regt

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plamenmarinov

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Re: Workflow ideas: Virtual 3D Set < Greenscreen > Fusion

PostMon Dec 09, 2019 5:11 pm

I agree , there is no general way to do this. VFX as part of creative industry deals with stuff that is rarely done before. So you need to find a solutions for new problems all the time.
I would suggest to go with a:
Option3:
-Shoot your green with markers.
- reconstruct the camera movement data /track, match move/
- export the camera to your 3D package
- optional: export keyed version of your green for additional reflection, shadow or indirect illumination effects during pass rendering.
- Create your virtual world and render pass it
- Composite your passes and your green in whatever app /Fusion for example/ you feel most comfortable.

This is a general guide. If you plan to create your world first - its fine, but you need to import your camera animation after that from your green screen shots. (you can always create your 3D camera animation and send it to robotic camera to execute, if you feel wealthy enough :-)
- just my 2 cents.
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Sam Steti

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Re: Workflow ideas: Virtual 3D Set < Greenscreen > Fusion

PostWed Dec 11, 2019 4:21 pm

Hey,

My opinion is close to this last option 3 thing...
- shoot your green with markers
- camera solve* > export it to Fusion comp1
*I personally do it with Mocha Pro standalone
- key the talent(s) in Fusion comp2 > export the alpha result
- import this in comp1 and add 3D stuff there too

Depending on the complexity of the project, I think you shouldn't key and make the 3D world in the same comp; just fine tune and light wrap the keyed talent in the end, not more
/my 2 cts
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firemist

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Re: Workflow ideas: Virtual 3D Set < Greenscreen > Fusion

PostThu Jan 02, 2020 3:46 pm

I'm no VFX expert, but i have done some simple virtual set projects (corporate work) in the past. With moving talent, or moving cameras, or both, I have always: Built the [animated] 3D scene to scale; shot on a [measured and well-marked] greenscreen studio; done camera tracking of the live shot [in SynthEyes], and imported that camera data into 3D software for rendering the scene. Then keying and compositing in a compositing app (AfterEffects when I did those projects).

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