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- Real Name: Pasha Kravetz
KrunoSmithy wrote:I'm not sure if its broken or intended to work in Fusion
KrunoSmithy wrote:you can select a point on screen and press delete to delete it
Marek2189 wrote: Thanks for trying to help. But you want to readjust the point, not to get rid of it.
bentheanimator wrote:The main original point is that as you refine a warp by using the handles, you need to be able to undo a move that was too far. Hence the idea of "undo". It's yet another glaring oversight from a team that doesn't use the tools. It's annoying as hell that there are TONS of these little "gotchas!" floating about in so many places.
Make the undo work as intended in the Warp tool.
bentheanimator wrote:Did you just say, "I think it's fine, so deal with it."?
We don't, in fact have the control we need in Fusion. Hence the point of bringing up the lack of control over the warper tool."
bentheanimator wrote:The warper tool is a half implemented version of the puppet tool from After effects. As the name implies, the tool is used to manipulate sections of the frame like a puppeteer would by pulling it around. Whoever created the warper tool has not used the tool professionally because as it is implemented now, it has limited use and is a pain.
bentheanimator wrote:In the five seconds of adding the tool I:
Connected the tool to the previous tool
Added four controls to quickly to start the process of working with it
Realized I needed to move one of the controls over by a few pixels
Tried clicking on the control, missed and added a new control
Hit Ctrl-Z to undo the creation of the new control
IT UNSELECTED THE TOOL AND DISCONNECTED THE ORIGINAL LINKING.
So then I had to reconnect the tool
Select the NEW point I accidentally made
Delete that point
Figure out that there is no way to move points into position once created
Delete the original point I wanted to shift
Create, very precisely, the new point exactly where I needed it.
Try out the moving of those points and think, "Man, I wish I could tie these two point together to move and rotate around a null or something...
Realized that the points are impossible to move precisely in relationship to each other and gave up
bentheanimator wrote:The three things that the tool is missing to be a complete tool are:Allow for UNDO, just like every other interface in Fusion. Just like the Grid Warp or a Bezier curve.
Have an option to show the mesh of the the warp so you know how tessellated the geometry is and figure out if you need more geo in an area. Something like a tentacle, that needs a smooth bend, could have twice as many points in the end vs the base.
It needs the ability to Publish the Points. Just like every other point system in Fusion. There's that consistency you wanted. That would allow you to tie point together into systems that you could rig like... a puppeteer! Like it was originally meant to be.
bentheanimator wrote:This tool is clearly meant as a hack tool for editors to unwarp a fish eye or something.
bentheanimator wrote: People in Fusion use it as a hack tool that works kinda like a missing tool that needs to be in Fusion and has been requested for years. The Puppet tool. If they took the interface for the the Surface tracker and created a warp manipulator with it, they would have the right tool. Instead we have this half baked tool that does nothing well.
bentheanimator wrote:This is what I mean when I say the developers don't use the tools. This one completely missed the point. It recreates the functionality of the Grid Warp tool but badly.
bentheanimator wrote:I hate being "that guy" in this. Go over to the SideFx forum or to Steakunderwater and you'll find that there are plenty of salty comments but they also admit to the issues and fix them where they can. On the SideFX forum, it's not uncommon to have a developer jump into a chat to explain that the feature isn't implemented yet or that a bug is there. It settles the conversation down and everyone moves on knowing that it's been added to the list. Communication.
Please example to me what it is that you can't do and you would be able to do with undo button and get different results. Because you sound like you are whining when you find a problem for every solution.
Sounds like personal frustration with the way tool works, not what it can or cannot do. Its you, my friend. You are the problem here. Another user would do it differently and no problem.
The other two features you requested are good ideas and I would welcome them, but that would be a very different tool than it is now. Its really just a ported OpenFX tool for editors to be able to do simple warping not a professional rigging set up. I would not mind having a rigging set of tools in fusion, but it really opens up all kinds of other areas than as well. Why don't we have ray tracing rendering in Fusion or more advance 3D tools for sculpting or this and that.
Far better is if anyone is actually into rigging to do proper job in applications designed for it. And use Fusion for what it is made for, fusing elements.
That is where Fusion came from and that is his legacy. Now there are more different types of users, many who see it as fancy title studio for Resolve or come from After Effects and want Fusion to be like After Effects, which is bad idea.
I do find developers or people from Blackmagic jump in when they feel they have something to add. They did that few times in regards to features of the Resolve and Fusion 19. Beyond that I can't say how they spend their time, what the organizational priorities in the company are but if you pay attention there is so many little features being added all the time, that maybe you didn't ask, but someone else did.
One thing I found in fusion often ignored is use of verity of tools in combination to extend the functionality of the single tool. For me this is a strength of node based compositing and Fusion in general. Many tools out of the box are what they are, could be better. But you hook up few nodes together and you have a custom tool for all kinds of jobs. If everyone waited around for developers to do everything out of the box, no one would actually get any work done.
There are so many ways and so much possible creativity with tools we have, that it would take you a life time to figure it all out. Undo button in warper tool is nothing.
bentheanimator wrote: It's literally the breakdown I posted. The undo limits the amount of control and the speed at which you can work by breaking the norms of control in the tool. You CAN'T undo a pin. Calling that whining is putting your head in the sand.
bentheanimator wrote: My guy, that is literally how you use the tool. It is a personal frustration with the tool because it's janky. I'm not incompetent or can't read the manual. I've used programs from Shake to Nuke and Maya to Houdini. It's obvious when a tool is completed or just thrown on there as a half assed tech demo. This is a half asses tech demo spiffed up because somebody made an ofx grid warper.
bentheanimator wrote:Yes, they are good ideas. They were already made into a tool in After Effects ten years ago. So asking for a toolset that is well established with a decade of use is a useful tool. Dare I say a staple of the industry. Allowing published access to the pins would allow you to do just what you said. You could stack multiple tools together to create your own rigging system. You can almost do it with the grid warp tool but the Beziers don't rotate when you move them with a parent. The warper tool is a more "generic?" tool that uses a hemispherical warp. So you could parent and turn a group but it's not that kind of tool like you said.
bentheanimator wrote: I don't think you can seriously say that making a basic rig is not what Fusion is made for. Fusion is a compositing tool. It manipulates pixels with math. A rig is a set of tools to change the matrix of a transform in a certain domain. I think that's well within the scope of Fusions intended use.
bentheanimator wrote:Don't underestimate After Effects users. All of the cool looking stuff has come from there. They have efficiencies that make anything Blackmagic makes look like kids toys. Adobe may be a huge money hungry company but After Effects can smoke Fusion in a lot of ways. They should take cues from Ae. Just not the layering concept. It's not a bad idea, it just needs to be done with restraint and wisdom. For instance, you can actually undo a movement and it doesn't blow away the rendered cache. I know, mind blown!
bentheanimator wrote:I'd love for you to show me a thread in the Fusion forum where a developer stepped in and communicated with the group.
bentheanimator wrote: There's a whole lot to unpack there but we know how to use tools. It's not lost on us how to use a combination of tools to get an outcome. It would be nice if the dev team didn't waste time making hacky one off tools with limited use vs doing some larger reaching asks like a mesh warp tool with control points that are accessible. Adding vertex adjustment to the 3D system. Allowing for a guide layer in the viewer. Moving more than one thing at a time in the viewer.
If they allowed vertex manipulation in the 3D tool, then you could do something like make a mesh, uv project your texture to it and then create nulls to mess with the transform matrix of the selected vertex. Aka, a mesh warp tool. One addition to the 3D system would open up a whole world of new avenues of work. That's what people mean when they talk about the resources going in the wrong direction.
bentheanimator wrote: Here's a secret... It doesn't take a lifetime. It takes about ten years experience in compositing and some really good educators who ware willing to guide us in the foundations. Once you're past the glossy outer shell of a program like Fusion, you see what it's like not what the marketing department wants you to see or what some new fanboys are in love with at the moment.
I like Fusion. I want it to succeed. People who are coming to Resolve/Fusion are used to Adobe Premiere and After Effects. If they can't hold their own against them, then the people who are trying out Resolve and Fusion will just go back. It's not like the $300.00 was some huge investment.
It could take over Autodesk's Flame but at this pace and with the bugs they are leaving in... it's a hard sell.
Maybe I'm being too harsh on the poor warper tool but I stand by it's janky implementation.
[/quote][/quote]bentheanimator wrote:It needs:
Undo pin movement
Hold "Shift Ctrl" or something to allow movement of the pin placement
bentheanimator wrote:Where did you find out that it is an OFX plugin that Blackmagic didn't create in house?
KrunoSmithy wrote:Yes you can undo a pin. Its called a delete button. Or alt mouse click. The result is exactly the same.
Hendrik Proosa wrote:This is the longest I’ve seen anyone anywhere argue against being able to undo, which is the most basic, essential functionality. Why do we need undo anyway, any action can be inverted by more or less manual futzing, lets get rid of it completely! Nodes are advanced and very powerful, many things can be done with them, so no undo needed.
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