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Weird dropout lines in render

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Mark Spink

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Weird dropout lines in render

PostTue Jan 20, 2015 12:54 pm

Dropout01.jpg
frame with error showing
Dropout01.jpg (607.25 KiB) Viewed 7251 times

Hello

Trying to learn Fusion now it's free (been a while since DFX4+ bundle with Lightwave).

Simple enough 3D flow, some image planes with TIFFs plastered on them, bit of a camera move, in camera DOF (so OGL render), not exactly 'Harry Potter' comp wise.
Had a good look & can't see anything in the comp to cause them, doesn't look like shapes z-fighting to me.

Am I running up against the limits of the machine I'm on?
Late 2013 MacbookPro, i7 4850HQ @ 2.3GHz, GT750M - 2Gig, 16Gig RAM, win7 home prem x64.

I've just downloaded F7.6 just in case, but will post this anyway as I've written it once already and the bastard disappeared when I tried to attach the files...

I'll try to attach a couple of stills & the comp file.

Help greatly appreciated!

Cheers in advance
Mark
Attachments
Dropout02.jpg
another frame showing the error
Dropout02.jpg (501.58 KiB) Viewed 7251 times
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Eric Westphal

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostWed Jan 21, 2015 7:24 am

Hi Mark.

Welcome back to Fusion...:-)

Is there any chance you could share your setup?
(Comp & images)?

Cheers.

Eric.
my hovercraft is full of eels.
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostWed Jan 21, 2015 1:42 pm

Eric

This is the third time I've tried to post this, I've just wasted 100Mb of data uploading the files in a ZIP twice.
Both times it gets to 100% and then disappears up it's own arse and clears the page! Splendid! I never wrote a thing and didn't upload the files twice!

I'm now trying something else- please mail me at mark@rmsdigital.co.uk & I'll send you the stuff on Dropbox or something that actually works.
I'm English so not used to metered data like I now have to put up with in Sydney, but even if I was in London still I'd have given up with this bloody website by now!

Please mail me & I'll send you a link to the files (I already found out that you can't post web links on here yesterday, the first time I tried to make the original post & lost the whole thing!)

Hope this works!

Regards
Mark
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostWed Jan 21, 2015 1:58 pm

Second question Eric- are you on Pigsfly and if so can I post the files there for you to look at?
The Zip's about 50Mb - no idea if that's what is causing the problems on this site because it just gets to 100% of the upload then goes back to the start as if I just started to reply, nothing written, no error messages not a sausage!...

Cheers
Mark
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Joël Gibbs

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostWed Jan 21, 2015 3:21 pm

a shot in the dark, since we can't really see the comp:
-could be a line left over if you made the trees separations in photoshop...sometimes those things pop right out of the canvas and you don't really see them until brought into comp.
-you might try increasing the subdivision on the planes. I've had weird aberrations on ogl render that a simple subdivision bump fixes.
Both of these might be completely off, but those are the first things that come to mind just from the images.
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michael vorberg

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostWed Jan 21, 2015 8:07 pm

maybe you can put the images and stuff into you dropbox public folder and paste the link here.
i doubt there is any forum which lets you attach 50mb of data.
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostWed Jan 21, 2015 10:00 pm

Stefan - I shall try, but 1st time I attempted to put a link to dropbox (original post- link to the video clip) I was told you can't put URL's in this forum (which I found quite bizarre!)...

Joel - thanks for the ideas, I shall try messing with the subdivision level, and also shall try (for about the 5th time!) to get a link on here to the .comp & the source files.

Attempt to post link in next post...

Cheers all
Mark
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostWed Jan 21, 2015 10:01 pm

Here goes nothing...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/83bd82mn22m61 ... 1.zip?dl=0

There's the files.

Regards
Mark
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostWed Jan 21, 2015 10:53 pm

Didn't expect that to work! I stand corrected - you CAN post URL's on the Forum here...
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Pieter Van Houte

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostWed Jan 21, 2015 11:05 pm

michael vorberg wrote:i doubt there is any forum which lets you attach 50mb of data.


We Suck Less does. Just don't abuse it ;)
Support We Suck Less on Patreon -> https://www.patreon.com/wesuckless

https://www.steakunderwater.com/wesuckless
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 1:08 am

Joel & Eric (sorry Eric, wrote Stefan before, confusing you with Mr CompFu!)

I tried upping the subdivision level on all the image planes & the artefact is still there, I'm not sure it's exactly the same as before but very close.
Basically all the flat image planes now subd of 20 vice 10 and the two displaced planes with subd of 40 vice 20.
Here's an MP4 of the results (about 30Megs)- https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2sbqienyqfks ... 1.mp4?dl=0

Any ideas?

Cheers
Mark
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 4:52 am

Just been playing about with the comp and the problem disappears completely if you turn off depth of field in the renderer, sort of a bummer as obviously I sort of wanted the DOF!
Hope that gives someone a clue as to what's causing this...

And if the 30Meg file's a bit fat I've found a nice open source x265 encoder so here's a smaller file-

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6528rz5eefdch ... 1.mkv?dl=0

Plays back fine in VLC on both my half decent laptops (old Macbook Air 2010 thinks it's a still though!).
Don't play it in a web browser! Dropbox plays it back in the browser somehow, but extremely badly, use VLC (recent build) and it's frighteningly good quality for 6 odd Megs...

Cheers
Mark
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Jeremy Nelson

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 6:42 am

fixed it for ya-- but I dont know how to upload comps on this thing
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Eric Westphal

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 7:17 am

Hi Mark.

There was an issue with one of the tree images.
Tiny, really really really tiny alpha-leftover on the borders,
which literally only shows with DOF enabled.

Viewing the rendered output,
I first detached the BG and FG groups to see where the error resides.
I then went into the FG trees,
again detaching one imageplane at a time.

That way the culprit was found quite easily....:-)

I added a crop tool to the image, cropped the borders a bit, and that was it.
Comp with relative paths attached.

Cheers.

Eric.
Attachments
MountainPlanesComp01_ew.zip
(21.23 KiB) Downloaded 266 times
my hovercraft is full of eels.
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Jeremy Nelson

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 7:35 am

zip smart man --
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 10:42 am

Eric

You da man!
I do bloody remember seeing a 1 pixel or something white line down the side of one image I grabbed & thinking 'better crop that'...
Then of course forgot & didn't see it again!

Thanks a load, I shall have a look when I get home.

One more question though: I keep seeing the wee input selection pop-up being used in tutorials, obviously I've tried 'tool input pop up' and various variations to find it in both the manual and the tool reference.
Obviously no joy- how in gods name do you make it happen?
And while I'm asking what the F**k is it called in the documentation?!?
Is it known as Derek or something?!

Cheers loads
Mark
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michael vorberg

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 10:50 am

while you drag you conection onto the node hold down ALT
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Eric Westphal

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 11:17 am

Hey Mark.

You're welcome...:-)

To get the input-selector you can either make the connection with RMB
or use Alt-LMB and let go somewhere on the tool.

Cheers.

Eric.
my hovercraft is full of eels.
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 11:37 am

Thanks Lads!

Just out of interest where is it hidden in the Docs...

Cheers
Mark
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 1:42 pm

Eric

You're going to hate me but...

Didn't fix it.

Re associated all the file paths (and that's all I did) & I'm still getting the same problem.
(are you an 80's man? naming a node 'the cure'...!?)

Also had a close look at the source image & couldn't see the problem with the alpha/image in PShop in the original, before your crop (I'm old - could be my eyes!).

Have attached your flow, as I was using, the weird thing is: I broke out the FG trees and rendered a preview- clean as a whistle, no lines.
I removed the FG trees from the rest of the comp & clean as a whistle as well, it only has the issue if they're both merged together - weird!
I'm now rendering out the results to put in my next post with the comp...


Cheers
Mark
Last edited by Mark Spink on Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Eric Westphal

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 1:52 pm

Hmmm....
Sorry, but I can't replicate the issue here....?

Cheers.

Eric.
my hovercraft is full of eels.
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostThu Jan 22, 2015 2:02 pm

I'm using F 7.6 are you?
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostFri Jan 23, 2015 2:07 am

Eric

I'm still getting the error if the FG trees are in the first merge with your changes.
Even more weird is that if I remove the FG Trees from the first merge and duplicate the fog etc, they render cleanly as does the rest of the scene when separated (so basically I can just do a 2D comp and all's good).
I'll have a bash at re-building the FG elements some time but I've attached the scene you sent me with the changes I've made.
I don't know if this is relevant, but when I tried to enable the colour curves & the brightness & contrast nodes that came back from you they didn't work at all, just got the wee red light on them. I had to add them again then copy/paste settings and the newly added ones worked OK.

Here's the renders I did showing the two clean passes & the error still happening.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hqja9sy74x8s5 ... y.mkv?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wrcc2itoz7vl ... y.mkv?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9sbul65zy4fmv ... h.mkv?dl=0

Should play ok in a newish version of VLC.

Thanks
Mark
Attachments
MountainPlanesComp01_ms.zip
the 'EW' scene split into 2 flows, all source file the same
(22.41 KiB) Downloaded 265 times
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostFri Jan 23, 2015 2:10 am

Eric

Be warned, don't play the video files in a browser - they look rubbish!

Cheers
Mark
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Eric Westphal

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostFri Jan 23, 2015 8:00 am

Hi Mark.

7.6? Ahhh.....I was still on 6.4....:-)

No, fun aside, I was able to replicate the issue,
once I found that it only happens on certain frames.
Frame 215 seems to be a hot canditate e.g.

And though I wasn't able to fix it,
there is a workaround you could use at least for scenes like this.

Switch the Render3D's Transparency from Sorted to Z-Buffer.
The dropouts disappear immediately.

I logged this as a bug.

Cheers.

Eric.
my hovercraft is full of eels.
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Mark Spink

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Re: Weird dropout lines in render

PostFri Jan 23, 2015 1:09 pm

Eric

No worries, thanks! It was a fairly ropey test scene anyway but thought I'd better mention it as the error didn't seem to line up with much in the scene so I thought it was a genuine oddity...
Can't help it - my day job's a broadcast engineer; I'm used to looking for rubbish on video & trying to work out what's causing it (usually something with Ericsson written on it! Perish the thought that I'd say something with Blackmagic written on it!!!).

Glad it wasn't me being guilty of 'finger trouble' and was a genuine bug.


Cheers
Mark

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