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A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

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Survivor_Films

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A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

PostSat Mar 14, 2015 5:06 am

Hi everyone,

I've been doing a lot of codec testing lately in an attempt to figure out a reliable 10-bit workflow between Fusion, Resolve, Vegas and the various other applications I use.

As a consequence, I've discovered that the Miraizon DNxHD and ProRes codecs for Windows only decode to 8-bit (and yet bizarrely, encode to 10-bit).

If you're using them, you can test this in Fusion by dropping in a loader, loading up *any* ProRes or DNxHD file and when you show 'image info' it'll display Depth: 8-bit int. Checking the waveform on a gradient will verify this.

The built-in ProRes decoder that comes with Apple's QuickTime player and Avid's own DNxHD codec behave as they should, importing as 16-bit int.

If you need to encode to ProRes on Windows, I recommend using ffmpeg to do so - the ProResHQ files it generates are pretty much identical to those created by Apple's codecs (and far superior to the Miraizon ones).
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Chad Capeland

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Re: A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

PostSun Mar 15, 2015 12:27 am

Did you try setting the Loader to 16 bit?
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Survivor_Films

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Re: A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

PostSun Mar 15, 2015 1:16 am

Hi Chad,

I did try that but it made no difference - both the ProRes and DNxHD files were unmistakably 8-bit in the waveform (I checked them against the 10-bit uncompressed file they were transcoded from).

This may only affect the 1.x versions of the codecs though, since after I wrote this I checked with a colleague that's got the 2.0.1.1 version and they're apparently not having this issue.

The strange thing is that the 1.x codec encoded them in 10-bit (once the codecs were removed they loaded up into Fusion as 16-bit int).

The files also worked in Resolve but then again, I'm not sure that Resolve uses QuickTime components/plugins for I/O (since it loads and saves DNxHD without needing a QT component for it).

Another odd thing I noticed was that bringing a Miraizon ProRes gradient test file into Sony Vegas exhibited a very different ramp to an Apple-encoded one. Lastly, the Miraizon-encoded ProRes file couldn't be loaded in Vegas using Apple's own ProRes codec in Quicktime ('stream attributes could not be indentified').

I'm going to stick with ffmpeg and the Apple/Avid codecs so I don't have to second-guess what my codecs are doing - if anyone's using the Miraizon codecs for 10-bit encoding I'd recommend you run a few quick tests to check they're working properly for you :)
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Stefan Ihringer

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Re: A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

PostSun Mar 15, 2015 9:17 am

intersting... thanks!

I've bought the codec and was going to use it although on footage from a dslr which is 8bit.

The previous workflow to render dpx first and then use ffmpeg or ffmbc seemed cumbersome. Every version of ffm* seemed to have different options and capabilities when it comes to prores. Especially those YCbCr matrices which turned faces slightly more purple.
blog and Fusion stuff: http://comp-fu.com/2012/06/fusion-script-macro-collection/
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Blazej Floch

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Re: A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

PostSun Mar 15, 2015 11:18 am

Stefan Ihringer wrote:intersting... thanks!

I've bought the codec and was going to use it although on footage from a dslr which is 8bit.

The previous workflow to render dpx first and then use ffmpeg or ffmbc seemed cumbersome. Every version of ffm* seemed to have different options and capabilities when it comes to prores. Especially those YCbCr matrices which turned faces slightly more purple.


There is a known issue with FFMBC and color spaces:
https://code.google.com/p/ffmbc/issues/detail?id=114
Here is another on RGB based images:
https://code.google.com/p/ffmbc/issues/detail?id=147

It seems it is known in FFMPEG as well:
http://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpe ... 12425.html

However a dev says that although the tag is not set and incorrectly claim it is 601 the player will guess it correctly and the result will be ok:
http://ffmpeg.gusari.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=802
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Blazej Floch

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Re: A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

PostSun Mar 15, 2015 11:28 am

Btw - I only have to deal with ProRes if clients demand it.
For my complete workflow I use HQX (intermediate codec from Edius) which these days is free.
http://www.grassvalley.com/products/hqx_codec

Yes there is a Mac Version, Quicktime, AVI, 10bit, alpha channels ... you name it.
Alone NOT using Quicktime in Fusion but an AVI makes the encoding about 3x faster.

The only downside to the AVI is that I did not find a ways yet to pass through the timecode.
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Craig Marshall

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Re: A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

PostSun Mar 15, 2015 12:35 pm

The best ff based transcoder I've found to encode ProRes, DNxHD and a several other pro codecs on the PC is Wayne Norton's ClipToolz Convert v2.xx. Now free from http://www.hdcinematics.com and includes a very handy Timecode Tool which allows manual, sequential re-striping of timecode on several codecs including ProRes. Best to fix sloppy timecode before the edit...
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Survivor_Films

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Re: A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

PostSun Mar 15, 2015 7:23 pm

ClipToolz is great and it's very generous of the author to offer it for free :)

I use Directory Opus as a file-manager and I've rigged it up to do my ffmpeg encoding for me:

Image

Blazej: Thanks for the recommendation I'll check out the HQX codec - although I suspect Resolve won't import it no?
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Lucas Pfaff

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Re: A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

PostMon Mar 16, 2015 10:50 am

Just checked it through, I can't conform that behavior on my machine, neither on V1 nor on V2 of the Miraizon Codecs.

In the end, I believe Miraizon is also nothing but ffmpeg no?

As I use PR444 a lot as a render codec, I don't really see a use of ClipToolz and others, as I only can convert already transcoded data :/
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Survivor_Films

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Re: A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

PostMon Mar 16, 2015 11:06 pm

Rick Griffo wrote:In the end, I believe Miraizon is also nothing but ffmpeg no?


I thought so but no - it seems not. As I mentioned above, there's some differences - depending on what applications you're using, the Miraizon codec has different gamma properties/levels to both Apple ProRes and ffmpeg (which in general is pretty darn close to Apple ProRes) - it's easy enough to compare them with some test patterns and gradients.

Since you haven't experienced any issues with v1 either, I decided to give it another shot just to check I wasn't going completely crazy - and sure enough, the moment I installed them, Fusion started importing ProRes and DNxHD in 8-bit rather than 16. Changing the depth in Fusion did nothing and it was obvious from the waveforms that the Miraizon codec was handing 8-bit footage over to Fusion.

Which is something else that bothered me - *all* ProRes/DNxHD decoding (except perhaps Resolve's) is done by the Miraizon codec once you've installed it and frankly, I just don't trust it any more.

I'm glad it's working well for you though - but as I said above, I can't afford to be second-guessing what Miraizon's software is doing and I don't want to have to keep double-checking and running tests to ensure my video isn't getting squashed into 8-bit whilst I'm trying to get work done.

Rick Griffo wrote:As I use PR444 a lot as a render codec, I don't really see a use of ClipToolz and others, as I only can convert already transcoded data :/


Yes - 4444's nice - I encode exr's to it via Snow Leopard which I've got running in a VM - it'd be nice to be able to encode it natively but unfortunately ffmpeg's implementation of 4444 is broken - it can't encode anything above 10-bit YUV and its data-rates are screwed. It's a bit of a pain to use a VM for transcoding that stuff but it's better than nothing :)

Hope you continue to get good use out of your codecs and I'm still hoping Miraizon get bought out so that someone else picks up development (maybe they'll fix my bugs ;))
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Lucas Pfaff

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Re: A warning about the Miraizon ProRes codec

PostThu Mar 19, 2015 2:46 pm

I totally understand your position, just can't confirm for my end.
Nuke lets you choose the decoder btw, if you want to use Miraizon or Quicktime. I also experienced issues here in Nuke, don't know if that was with v1 or v2, but that was more flicker/gamma stuff.
For exports, it never really was a problem.

However, it seems this only applies to v1? Because that's an important thing, it doesn't make Miraizon crap on all levels, not in the v2 for example. Sadly you can't upgrade here anymore :(
From what they wrote on their webpage, it didn't sound like a friendly aquisition, and not like it will live on any further (unlike Fusion or Mocha, for example).

But DNxHR is really close for the "open usage" in other packages then DaVinci and AMC. Like, really close. So maybe it's not even a biggie for me anymore.
I'll drive a test with them tonight, hope it works out :)

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