[Feature request] Allow zooming without Ctrl key

Hi,

as the title says it would be priceless to have an option to zoom in schematic and 3D view without Ctrl key pressed. With this ancient navigation method, work with the UI feels quite clumsy and heavy. Especially 3D view is really excruciating to navigate using mouse and keyboard. If there was just a little checkbox to disable the need of Ctrl key to scroll, it would be a lot more fluid to work with schematic, and 3D view navigation would pretty much match 3ds Max default control scheme.

have not try, but might work
http://pigsfly.com/index.php?/topic/6829-mouse-wheel-zooming/
http://pigsfly.com/index.php?/topic/4307-zoom-using-the-mousewheel-without-the-ctrl-key/

I'm using that option but setting it up is a pain. Moreover, it only works in viewers and not in the flow view. It's time that this hidden option gets promoted to a checkbox in the global preferences and applies to all of Fusion.

Even if it doesn't work in schematic, it's still a lifesaver! Thank you so much. I agree it should be a simple checkbox and should work also in schematic, but i do not zoom schematic that often, so that's OK. Zooming 3D view and viewer, that's a different story. This will save a lot of hair on my head from being pulled out.

I'm using that option but setting it up is a pain. Moreover, it only works in viewers and not in the flow view. It's time that this hidden option gets promoted to a checkbox in the global preferences and applies to all of Fusion.

Agree

But using LMB & MMB while moving the mouse/pen left or right
zooms sooooo much smoother than that friggin mousewheel.
(Especially when using a pen which is lacking that wheel by default...)

But using LMB & MMB while moving the mouse/pen left or right
zooms sooooo much smoother than that friggin mousewheel.
(Especially when using a pen which is lacking that wheel by default...)

Yes, it would be optional, not hardcoded. But even if it wasn't, it would still not intefere with the current navigation scheme, as tablet pen does not have a mouse wheel. You must not forget that not everyone uses pen tablet when working with Fusion. Many people use mouse, and even with weeks of practice, navigating especially 3D view with current control scheme is close to impossible.

By the way, i am just wondering... What does (or did) mousewheel alone do? I mean if there is need to use it with modifier key for zooming, then i would expect it to do something else without modifier key. Yet when i use mousewheel without Ctrl, nothing happens. It almost feels like need for Ctrl is there just to make things harder to use, without any real workflow benefit.

It scrolls.Drop down menus,the tools pane. Just like in explorer or browser. Very useful and fast.

but even scrolling the tool pane using the mouse wheel is a bit weird. It only works if the mouse is on an empty area. If it's on a slider it doesn't scroll. If it's on a dropdown it changes the dropdown instead!

btw.. Nuke uses alt middle mouse to zoom the flow and viewers which works beautifully with a mouse. And in Fusion that combo would also still be available. It has the added benefit of being able to pan and zoom while you're dragging a tool with your left mouse button held down.

It scrolls.Drop down menus,the tools pane. Just like in explorer or browser. Very useful and fast.

Sorry, but that does not make any sense at all. Tools pane or drop down lists can not be zoomed, so it does not anyhow interfere with zooming. There is no need to differ then actions. Therefore it seems there is really no need for Ctrl modifier key at all.

It scrolls.Drop down menus,the tools pane. Just like in explorer or browser. Very useful and fast.

Sorry, but that does not make any sense at all. Tools pane or drop down lists can not be zoomed, so it does not anyhow interfere with zooming. There is no need to differ then actions. Therefore it seems there is really no need for Ctrl modifier key at all.

You're right, I should have mentioned also the timeline and spline view, where you can scroll(mouse wheel) and zoom (ctrl+ mouse wheel).

but even scrolling the tool pane using the mouse wheel is a bit weird. It only works if the mouse is on an empty area. If it's on a slider it doesn't scroll. If it's on a dropdown it changes the dropdown instead!

Makes sense to me..?

btw.. Nuke uses alt middle mouse to zoom the flow and viewers which works beautifully with a mouse. And in Fusion that combo would also still be available. It has the added benefit of being able to pan and zoom while you're dragging a tool with your left mouse button held down.

Fusion uses num pad +- for zooming also, so it can be used to zoom while you're dragging a tool.

A zoom in flow/viewers with the mw only might be implementable idk, but I personally rarely use it anyway - the lmb+mmb is smooth and becomes second nature when using fusion a lot. Same as alt+mouse in Nuke I guess..but using one hand only.

A zoom in flow/viewers with the mw only might be implementable idk, but I personally rarely use it anyway - the lmb+mmb is smooth and becomes second nature when using fusion a lot. Same as alt+mouse in Nuke I guess..but using one hand only.

Do you use mouse or pen? If you use Pen, then it completely makes sense to push button mapped as MMB and tap on the pad with your pen tip. But if you use mouse, mmb+lmb is incredibly awkward, almost as having your hand in a spasm.

but even scrolling the tool pane using the mouse wheel is a bit weird. It only works if the mouse is on an empty area. If it's on a slider it doesn't scroll. If it's on a dropdown it changes the dropdown instead!

Makes sense to me..?

This happens a lot to me: I start scrolling using the mouse wheel and a slider moves to where my mouse pointer is pointing at. If I continue scrolling the mouse wheel, nothing happens anymore. Even worse: when a dropdown moves to where my mouse is, I start changing the dropdown's value and need to undo. Fusion will almost definitely have to re-render stuff because the cache gets invalidated... and I end up with a lot of wasted time for what should have been a simple scrolling motion

but even scrolling the tool pane using the mouse wheel is a bit weird. It only works if the mouse is on an empty area. If it's on a slider it doesn't scroll. If it's on a dropdown it changes the dropdown instead!

Makes sense to me..?

This happens a lot to me: I start scrolling using the mouse wheel and a slider moves to where my mouse pointer is pointing at. If I continue scrolling the mouse wheel, nothing happens anymore. Even worse: when a dropdown moves to where my mouse is, I start changing the dropdown's value and need to undo. Fusion will almost definitely have to re-render stuff because the cache gets invalidated... and I end up with a lot of wasted time for what should have been a simple scrolling motion

This only happens if you left click on a slider, or (double)left click on dropdown/highlight an item. Otherwise the scrolling is unbroken.

A zoom in flow/viewers with the mw only might be implementable idk, but I personally rarely use it anyway - the lmb+mmb is smooth and becomes second nature when using fusion a lot. Same as alt+mouse in Nuke I guess..but using one hand only.

Do you use mouse or pen? If you use Pen, then it completely makes sense to push button mapped as MMB and tap on the pad with your pen tip. But if you use mouse, mmb+lmb is incredibly awkward, almost as having your hand in a spasm.

Using mouse. I can see what you mean,mmb+lmb indeed puts some tension on your fingers, I guess I'm just too used to it.

This happens a lot to me: I start scrolling using the mouse wheel and a slider moves to where my mouse pointer is pointing at. If I continue scrolling the mouse wheel, nothing happens anymore. Even worse: when a dropdown moves to where my mouse is, I start changing the dropdown's value and need to undo. Fusion will almost definitely have to re-render stuff because the cache gets invalidated... and I end up with a lot of wasted time for what should have been a simple scrolling motion

This only happens if you left click on a slider, or (double)left click on dropdown/highlight an item. Otherwise the scrolling is unbroken.

I just double checked to make sure... and I think you're wrong. Try this:

• If you've set Fusion to only show a single control panel at a time, reduce the window height and create a Renderer3D (because it has lots of controls and you have something to scroll).
• Without clicking anywhere, scroll the wheel up and down and move your mouse around.
• You won't be able to scroll the tool panel if you're pointing at a slider or button. Only if you point at the small space between controls of along the side.

Nope, works fine here. Not sure what causes it for you.

Anyone else having such issue?

Scrolls just fine for me too, unless I have a UI element active that uses the wheel for setting the value.

I think the slider is just a bug. It should set it's value with the wheel or ignore it. The current behaviour seems to be intercepting it.

hm... maybe it's a Windows thing? Are you running Windows 8? I'm on 7 an if I remember correctly mouse-wheel scrolling has always been like that for me (even on Fusion 6.x)

Running Win 7 too. 6.4 is working the same for me and on XP as well.

Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread though is just consistency with the 3D navigation and how you have to have you hand on the modifier keys anyway for everything else in Fusion anyway.

Like MMB/wheel in 3D does truck/pedestal, orbit, and dolly. If you removed the ctrl modifier, how would you differentiate truck/pedestal from dolly? Just whether the wheel is actually rolled? And how much do you save since you need alt for orbit? Alt and ctl are intentionally near each other.

Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread though is just consistency with the 3D navigation and how you have to have you hand on the modifier keys anyway for everything else in Fusion anyway.

Like MMB/wheel in 3D does truck/pedestal, orbit, and dolly. If you removed the ctrl modifier, how would you differentiate truck/pedestal from dolly? Just whether the wheel is actually rolled? And how much do you save since you need alt for orbit? Alt and ctl are intentionally near each other.

I can't see how this can be of a discussion. It's just awkward, that's all. Even after having it used daily for over two weeks, i could not get used to it, and i used a LOT of different software.

Alt with MMB has a point, MMB without alt pans, MMB with Alt orbits. But Ctrl with wheel is pointless, because wheel without Ctrl doesn't do anything in this UI element (3D view). As i mentioned earlier in this thread, mouse wheel without Ctrl does something only in parts of UI where it's not possible to zoom. It's additional layer of complexity without gain of anything.

Having my hand on modifier keys anyway is really not an excuse. Sure i have my hand on Ctrl, but that's just because i have to. If i was able too zoom with just the wheel itself, i would not have to touch Ctrl in that case. I would have to touch it a LOT less.

If it wasn't such a big deal, then why is there so many people asking for it? (i mean in other threads on other forums too)

mouse wheel without Ctrl does something only in parts of UI where it's not possible to zoom.

Except for the timeline and spline view, where zoom is possible(and necessary) as mentioned earlier.


P.S. and text/text3d tools Styled text field.

I can't see how this can be of a discussion.

You asked on a forum. You didn't send an email to requests@blackmagicdesign.com.

Having my hand on modifier keys anyway is really not an excuse.

Sure it is. Your hand is already in an ideal place to do what you need to. That's why the modifier keys are arranged the way they are.

Should there be more user control over hotkeys? Sure. But you act like you have to have an assistant press the button with a third hand.

This feels like a discussion about a feature people are requesting. But the funny thing is that zooming without ctrl already exists. So the questions are:

- why is it an obscure option that you need to enable via scripting on a per-viewer basis instead of a prominent option?

- why doesn't it apply to other parts of the interface that need frequent zooming like the flow view?

Ok, I triple checked my scrolling issues on the tool panel. Seems like the places I can scroll using the mouse wheel are:

- on the input's text labels
- on buttons and checkboxes
- on the scroll bars

places where I can't scroll the tool panel:

- on a slider (it doesn't even move the slider)
- on a dropdown (it changes the dropdown instead of scrolling the panels)

So when you people are saying "it works for me", are you able to scroll the tool panel despite pointing at the latter two widgets?

Correct. I think the slider is a bug. It should affect the slider value or ignore it and allow scrolling.

It's just really, really terrible navigation scheme. The worst I have ever used, regarding 3D view. In flow or viewer it's not that much of a problem, but it's still an annoyance. And the issue here is there is no reason for it to be that way.

Imagine it like this. Right now, if you want to view color output in the viewer, you hit C, if you wanna see alpha, you hit A. Now imagine it would become Tab+A and Tab+C, that you would have to keep holding Tab to do those things. There would be no point for it. It would just make things more difficult without any benefit.

Sure things can be clumsy from time to time. Every software has it's quirks. But there is just no place for issues in navigation controls, because those are what you use very often. In case of 3D view interaction, you do those actions even several times a second. What is there now simply does not work, it's a really weird combination that just does not save into the muscle memory no matter how hard i try.

If this gets changed, or at least option to change it gets added, then it will improve fusion in a significant way, but it will not break anything nor will it make any other part of the software worse. It's simply a gain without any loss in exchange. I can not understand why would anyone argue against making the software better.

it will not break anything nor will it make any other part of the software worse.

No, but it will bring inconsistency in functionality for different work areas. Right now you can scroll and zoom in timeline/spline view. If the behavior of the MMB is changed to not to use ctrl for zooming in viewers and flow panel it might bring confusion to the users as to why it doesn't behave the same way in timeline/spline.

So when you people are saying "it works for me" ...

I mean it works everywhere in the control panel just fine. As long as I don't click on a slider or a dropdown. In that case if I'd like to be able to scroll again I'd have to deselect the item by clicking in the flow and then back in the control panel (somewhere I don't have sliders or dropdowns).

Clicking on a slider breaks the scroll and could be bug indeed, or it needs behavioral improvement.

P.S. I think I have the mystery solved.
Check your preferences -> general -> mouse wheel affects the window under the pointer -->Uncheck

Imagine it like this. Right now, if you want to view color output in the viewer, you hit C, if you wanna see alpha, you hit A.

That's actually a terrible example.

If this gets changed, or at least option to change it gets added, then it will improve fusion in a significant way, but it will not break anything nor will it make any other part of the software worse. It's simply a gain without any loss in exchange. I can not understand why would anyone argue against making the software better.

The option to change it in a viewer already does exist. Elsewhere, though, it would change some instances where the unmodified wheel does expected things, like scroll.

So when you people are saying "it works for me" ...

I mean it works everywhere in the control panel just fine. As long as I don't click on a slider or a dropdown. In that case if I'd like to be able to scroll again I'd have to deselect the item by clicking in the flow and then back in the control panel (somewhere I don't have sliders or dropdowns).

Clicking on a slider breaks the scroll and could be bug indeed, or it needs behavioral improvement.

P.S. I think I have the mystery solved.
Check your preferences -> general -> mouse wheel affects the window under the pointer -->Uncheck

Ah, now I understand why you mention clicking in your posts.

Actually, I have enabled that option on purpose because I want to be able to zoom viewers without clicking into them first. Think about using the paint tool or drawing bezier splines... A click would have side effects. I used to middle-click into viewers just to activate them without adding an unwanted paint stroke until I finally found out there was an option to use the mouse wheel without clicking.

The downside is that I can just scroll around the tool control panels without clicking and a large amount of the tool panel's screen space won't let me do this (sliders and dropdowns). Even worse, when I have started scrolling and a slider or dropdown scrolls to where my pointer is, scrolling suddenly stops or (in the case of dropdowns) changes the dropdown's values. Highly annoying.

The solution would probably be to:

• fix the slider's handling of the scroll wheel (make it scroll its value if it has been clicked before)
• make sliders and dropdowns not accept mouse wheel events unless they have been clicked - even if the "mouse wheel affects window under the pointer" option is enabled.

Well the solution to zoom vs scroll would be extremely simple. If wheel zoom without Ctrl checkbox was enabled, Ctrl+Wheel would do scrolling. Simple as that. I can imagine most of the people pan with middle button instead of scrolling anyway. And of course, for something like tool pane, wheel would still scroll.