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Depth of Field - everlasting problem

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Adrian Niwa

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Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostThu Oct 05, 2017 7:33 pm

Hi guys.
I'm wondering how is it, that BM moves to fancy stuff like VR, when pretty substantial (for professional compositing software) functions like DoF are not well implemented?
I know limitations. I've tested many methods (including whole 3D scene import with camera mapping) and didn't get a proper DoF quality.
To compare I've instaled NUKE non-commercial to test their DoF, and without much struggle I've got pretty decent effect result 'out of the box'.
That makes me wonder - what the heck? It's an issue raised so many times in any Fusion discussion, by so many compositors and still nobody improves DoF algorythms!

Is the only solution using Studio version and OpenFX plugin from Frischluft?
Or maybe is the algorithm in Studio version better than the free version? (Tell me so I make purchase right away).
Maybe are there any macros that do the job?

DoF is not an "abandoned thingie". I't's an important element in CG.

If you know any solutions - I'd be glad if you share it.
If you could push BM team to work any better on this - I'd be glad if you pushed harder :)

All in all - Fusion is really great software and I love using it while compositing some advanced scenes.
But lack of DoF is a big shame on the brand.

Cheers!
Manjaro / ASROCK X399 Taichi / AMD Threadripper 1920X / RTX 2060 / 32GB RAM DDR-4 / 4 X SSD drive / Fusion Studio / Resolve Studio
www.inox.vision
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Thomas Martin

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostFri Oct 06, 2017 7:22 am

DOF can easily be done using Channel Booleans. You use one such node to capture the z-depth (the BW-image representing the z-value) and then you link it to the Depth Blur node and it works nicely. Here are two youtube tutorials.




Hope that helps, Thomas
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Theodor Groeneboom

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostFri Oct 06, 2017 8:11 am

-
Last edited by Theodor Groeneboom on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thomas Martin

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostFri Oct 06, 2017 4:40 pm

Great, I am still learning these things. I had a look at these tutorials.
There is one Fusion setting used that disappeared from these sites
and also the older VXpedia page (all links died):
ExtendEdges_v01.setting
If anyone still has this file it would be nice do make it available.
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Lee Gauthier

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostFri Oct 06, 2017 7:30 pm

In any case, you'll fight the usual edge issues etc due to insufficient data.


For those who wonder what Theodor is referring to:

DOF blurring in the real world exposes information that would be obscured with deep DOF. If the FG is blurred, the edges become transparent, revealing obscured data from the BG. If the BG is blurred, the blur smears the image, pulling colors out from behind sharply focused FG objects.

DOF blurring in CG is blurring from a flat rendered image. There is no hidden data behind FG objects. When you run a lens blur on a flat render, you run out of data, and you see edge artifacts.
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Jens Noelte

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostSat Oct 07, 2017 4:03 am

Thomas Martin wrote:There is one Fusion setting used that disappeared from these sites
and also the older VXpedia page (all links died):
ExtendEdges_v01.setting
If anyone still has this file it would be nice do make it available.


https://www.steakunderwater.com/VFXPedi ... 01.setting
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Thomas Martin

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostSat Oct 07, 2017 6:03 am

Thanks a lot :D
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Vladimir LaFortune

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostSun Oct 08, 2017 4:07 pm

Theodor Groeneboom wrote:The DepthBlur can't cut the cheese for anything dof related. You'll need something that supports a variable aperture sized kernel. Like what the Defocus does, but it can't do variable. The only option is to use the VariBlur node, but that one only does circular bokehs.

Good new is you have two better options available in the free version.

1. Gringos's depth defocus macro (https://www.steakunderwater.com/VFXPedi ... escription)

2. Recreate the geometry (using imageplane displaced by a pworld of your render) and re-render it in Fusion's 3d system using the openGL accumulation settings. That way you get accurate 3d depth of field. If you enable quick sorting its surprisingly fast and works very well for super shallow depth of field. Sadly no custom bokehs here either.

In any case, you'll fight the usual edge issues etc due to insufficient data.

Peregrine's pgBokeh for Nuke is sadly the only true option for doing more accurate depth of field in post these days. And that requires deep renders too.


Frischluft does everything right in Fusion if you have a lot of patience cause its so super slow.
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Adrian Niwa

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostSun Oct 08, 2017 6:46 pm

Lee Gauthier wrote:
DOF blurring in CG is blurring from a flat rendered image. There is no hidden data behind FG objects. When you run a lens blur on a flat render, you run out of data, and you see edge artifacts.


Like I said - I know the limitations. And I know the "run out of data" problem, but still -> Nuke can handle it pretty well, so can Frischluft.

Depth Defocus 'out of the box' is so messy, it really is out of any use. IMHO - Fusion doesn't have a depth blur, hence the solution is unusable.

Yeah, but it has a VR....
So BMD team wants to jump on Mars, never exploring Moon...

I'll take a look at solutions mentioned above.
Thanks guys!!
Manjaro / ASROCK X399 Taichi / AMD Threadripper 1920X / RTX 2060 / 32GB RAM DDR-4 / 4 X SSD drive / Fusion Studio / Resolve Studio
www.inox.vision
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AndyThirtover

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostWed Dec 27, 2017 7:22 pm

I concur with Depth Blur needing a bit more work.

Here's an EXR image that has Z varying between 27 and 54. I made a 4 second video with the focal point going between these two values. You can see that as the threshold passes the blur starts, rather than a gradual and natural onset:



Regards


Andy
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostThu Dec 28, 2017 3:33 pm

Adrian Niwa wrote:
Yeah, but it has a VR....
So BMD team wants to jump on Mars, never exploring Moon...


Not addressing your original concern, but at $299 minus whatever the resellers take, and without any subscription income, they need to go where the sales are. VR is driving the market and competitive products are filling that need.

The moon is barren.
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com
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AndyThirtover

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostThu Dec 28, 2017 5:21 pm

I followed the links suggested by Vladimir LaFortune above and managed to get to this stage:



Regards


Andy
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AndyThirtover

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Re: Depth of Field - everlasting problem

PostWed Jan 03, 2018 10:16 am

Dear Forum

As luck would have it, a chappy called Simon Ubsdell has just made a useful tutorial on this:



I tried his workflow, it worked.

Regards


Andy

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