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bSpline - Fusion 9 - crashing a lot

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Clayton Krause

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bSpline - Fusion 9 - crashing a lot

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 11:48 pm

I've seen a few posts on this dating back from ~2014 and it doesn't seem like the bSpline is any more stable in 2017. Any details or possible solutions to make the bspline a bit more stable? I'm getting crashing every five minutes trying to rotoscope a 5k image now, but this has happened since I've started using fusion a few months ago.

BMD Fusion 9 studio (latest available download)
Win10
Wacom intous large
GTX 1080
Dual 12 core xeons @ 3.0 ghz.

The concept of the bspline is awesome, but not very usable (for me) in this state. Any help would be great! Also I might mention that after the 50th or so point, the image viewer slows way down when moving around. Thanks.
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Bryan Ray

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Re: bSpline - Fusion 9 - crashing a lot

PostSat Dec 02, 2017 6:34 am

I haven't noticed any particular instability with BSpline, but I also don't make splines with so many anchors. 50+ points seems like quite a lot, and it makes me think that perhaps you should be breaking your subject into smaller pieces and/or taking advantage of the weight control. Hold W and drag to the right to increase the weight of an anchor. That prevents needing to cluster points to get a corner.

The new interface tech in Fusion 9 seems to be significantly slower than previous versions. I've particularly noticed it when using 4-corner Trackers. When the splines are visible, the interface latency is extremely high. Complex splines would likely suffer the same fate.
Bryan Ray
http://www.bryanray.name
http://www.musevfx.com
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Clayton Krause

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Re: bSpline - Fusion 9 - crashing a lot

PostSat Dec 02, 2017 6:50 pm

Weight control is working nicely and I think breaking up the subject into smaller pieces is a good bit of advice. Using weight control more is helping with the crashes although they still happen from time to time.

It seems like fusion hiccups when keys are created on the bSpline close to other keys. As if it can't resolve the operation possibly getting confused with the key right by the one you are creating.. Anyways, still better than doing this in photoshop or spending my life savings on Nuke.

I started using fusion several months ago and I'm really enjoying the flexibility of it. Scripting in it is awesome and having the Fusion file be all code based, referencing in the images, not embedding them is really, really useful. Cheers.
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Bryan Ray

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Re: bSpline - Fusion 9 - crashing a lot

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 6:13 am

Some general advice for roto (and this may be stuff you already know—apologies if so):

Create separate shapes for rigid segments of your subject. The forearm and upper arm should be two different shapes, for example. Frequently a small flexing shape for the elbow should also be added. Try to move points as a group rather than individually. Hold T to rotate, S to scale uniformly, X and Y to scale in just those directions.

Keep points associated with particular features on those features as much as possible. If an anchor moves up and down the arm over the course of the shot, that's what causes crawling in your matte.

Identify primary movement first, and set keyframes at the extremes, adding more keyframes only as necessary. Fewer keyframes means less chatter. Identify points of rotation and use them to your advantage. For instance, The forearm rotates from the elbow, so align your spline to the elbow first, then rotate it into place; you'll find your intermediate frames are much more accurate. Some 2d character animation principles are applicable to rotoscoping.

Don't try to roto negative space. It's much easier to get a matte for a person and subtract it from the matte of a window than to try to make a spline for the window and the edge of the person.

Sometimes a luma key will get detail that's too fine to roto effectively. For flapping coats or hair, sometimes painting the mask frame by frame with Mask Paint is actually faster than wrangling a spline.

Name your nodes! When you come back to a shot after two weeks doing other things, you'll thank yourself for the organization.
Bryan Ray
http://www.bryanray.name
http://www.musevfx.com
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Clayton Krause

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Re: bSpline - Fusion 9 - crashing a lot

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 10:07 pm

Thank you for the advice. I'm not versed in roto so all of that is good information. I was able to use one of the keyers for my subjects hair already which worked out very well.

I wasn't doing any roto for animation, only stills. The goal was to paint depth masks in fusion which worked out well with the gradient background being masked by the various rotos.

Still, Fusion kept on crashing on me very frequently. I turn off update when I'm using the bSpline to not get a resolution shift while working, but still, crashed a lot. Much better though after lightening the load of the keys and using the weight option you recommended in your previous most.

To be fair, the resolution I was working at was between 5-8k on some of the images I was rotoscoping. Also the shapes were more complex I suppose too. Below is an example of one. Thanks again for all the help.

Image
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Sander de Regt

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Re: bSpline - Fusion 9 - crashing a lot

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 10:12 pm

'resolution shift'? That sounds like you have 'auto proxy' set to on, since that's the only option that I know of that changes the resolution while working on it. I am not sure if that's the way to get the best result of your masking. Same for turning off update. How do you know if your mask is working if you don't view the result. Also: you could consider using 'normal' polygons instead of B-splines, since they tend to be more stable than B-splines. Of course B-splines shouldn't crash either, but when it's about getting your job done now, maybe 'should' isn't the most important part of the equation. :-)
Sander de Regt

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Clayton Krause

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Re: bSpline - Fusion 9 - crashing a lot

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 10:19 pm

Thanks for the reply. I was rotoscoping still images. Not frames. Turning the update to "None" (vs all or some) still retains the image. The bSpline still updates as a trace, but nothing resolves. This allowed me to punch out the masks and then turn on update to proof them.

I'll check out the "auto proxy" to see about turning that on/off. A question while we are on the topic (sort of), is there some adaptive resolution function inside of fusion like AE? That would be nice when modifying things like background ramps to let me know if I'm in the ballpark before final resolve.

Also I was leveraging some of the cache features on the bSpline rotos that were done so fusion didn't resolve them when they didn't need to be resolved (I think I saw nodes resolving even when "some" was ticked and the modifications were being done way up-tree of those bspline/merge nodes that were resolving, but weren't being modified).

Still learning! Coming from After Effects to Fusion and I am really liking it. Entertained the idea of Nuke, but you can't beat 300 dollars vs something like $9000 for Nuke Studio. It sort of blows my mind that The Foundry can price gouge like that. Even Fusion's old pricing for 1200 or so bucks was totally a steal when compared to Nuke. Thanks again.

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