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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:09 pm
by ThomasManz
I got one more!!!!!

Maybe there is again some nifty way to get that by customizing, maybe not.
I really miss the ability to compare 2 or more nodes by simply using the number keys. I know about the A/B comparison feature but it's not what I'm looking for. In Nuke you simply select a node hit 1, select another node hit 2, select another node hit 3 and you can cycle through them by just hit the number keys. And because this loads the output in the same viewer you can see even very little variations because the image "jumps" i.e. makes a rapid change. Fusions approachs with either the A/B comparison or the two viewers side by side are not giving you this clear feedback even close. Once again Nuke is the role model because it let's you do all possible ways. It let's you directly compare multiple nodes in one viewer, you can set up a side by side comparison or an A/B swipe comparison. Advantage Nuke.

EDIT:
alan bovine wrote:The good people at the other fusion forum https://www.steakunderwater.com/wesuckless/ have put together Reactor, which is a central tool, macro, script, comps all fusion related repository.

Its a one-click App-store for all things fusion releated. It's very feature rich, and makes installing 3rd party tools as easy as clicking with a single button.

Check it out here https://www.steakunderwater.com/wesuckl ... hp?p=13348


I downloaded the Reactor-Installer.lua, dragged it into the fusion console, error:
The file could not be opened as a composition:
[string "Composition"]:40: '<eof>' expected near '='"


copy/pasting the script into the console gives me:
[Reactor Installer] Version 1.0.1 - January 23, 2018
[Created By] Andrew Hazelden <andrew@andrewhazelden.com>
[Reactor] Detected Fusion 9.00 running on Linux

[Closing Comp] Composition1
[GitLab Branch] "master"

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:25 am
by Juha Takabe
ThomasManz wrote:I got one more!!!!!

Maybe there is again some nifty way to get that by customizing, maybe not.
I really miss the ability to compare 2 or more nodes by simply using the number keys. I know about the A/B comparison feature but it's not what I'm looking for. In Nuke you simply select a node hit 1, select another node hit 2, select another node hit 3 and you can cycle through them by just hit the number keys. And because this loads the output in the same viewer you can see even very little variations because the image "jumps" i.e. makes a rapid change. Fusions approachs with either the A/B comparison or the two viewers side by side are not giving you this clear feedback even close. Once again Nuke is the role model because it let's you do all possible ways. It let's you directly compare multiple nodes in one viewer, you can set up a side by side comparison or an A/B swipe comparison. Advantage Nuke.


I hear you. As you mentioned before, some things are simply better in Nukeland. Viewer with 12345... is simply too handy to ignore. We don't want Fusion to be Nuke, but there is always a room to be better than it is now so why not borrow good parts from the competitor.

Cheers

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:21 pm
by Bryan Ray
ThomasManz wrote:copy/pasting the script into the console gives me:
[Reactor Installer] Version 1.0.1 - January 23, 2018
[Created By] Andrew Hazelden <andrew@andrewhazelden.com>
[Reactor] Detected Fusion 9.00 running on Linux

[Closing Comp] Composition1
[GitLab Branch] "master"


You need to update Fusion. Reactor requires a feature that was introduced in 9.0.1 to access the Lua library used to download materials. There really ought to be a minimum requirements note in the introductory post… I'll mention it to SecondMan.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:22 pm
by Chad Capeland
Juha Takabe wrote: Viewer with 12345... is simply too handy to ignore.


Explain this more explicitly. What is Nuke doing that you can't do with Fusion with hotkeys or GUI customizations?

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:40 pm
by ThomasManz
Bryan Ray wrote:You need to update Fusion. Reactor requires a feature that was introduced in 9.0.1 to access the Lua library used to download materials. There really ought to be a minimum requirements note in the introductory post… I'll mention it to SecondMan.

Ah, ok thanks. I will do that.

Chad Capeland wrote:Explain this more explicitly. What is Nuke doing that you can't do with Fusion with hotkeys or GUI customizations?


As I said:
ThomasManz wrote:In Nuke you simply select a node hit 1, select another node hit 2, select another node hit 3 and you can then cycle through them by just hitting the number keys. And because this loads the output in the same viewer you can see even very little variations because the image "jumps" i.e. makes a rapid change.


In Fusion the only way I see to get a rapid change comparison is to either drag the nodes into the viewer or select nodeA hit 1, select nodeB hit 1 again, select nodeA hit 1...and so on. Both methods require you to take your eyes of the viewer get the required node and load it to the viewer. This way you don't get the same visual feedback like setting up two nodes for the viewer and then rapidly 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1 back and forth. This way you can see even the smallest changes. For example a roto mask that is off by one pixel or so. When I was working in Nuke I did that CONSTANTLY to check and recheck, thus I miss that feature like hell in Fusion.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:48 pm
by Chad Capeland
So there's nothing stopping you from doing that in Fusion now, right? It's just a matter of setting up your hotkeys and some comp variables?

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:57 pm
by Pieter Van Houte
Bryan Ray wrote:
ThomasManz wrote:copy/pasting the script into the console gives me:
[Reactor Installer] Version 1.0.1 - January 23, 2018
[Created By] Andrew Hazelden <andrew@andrewhazelden.com>
[Reactor] Detected Fusion 9.00 running on Linux

[Closing Comp] Composition1
[GitLab Branch] "master"


You need to update Fusion. Reactor requires a feature that was introduced in 9.0.1 to access the Lua library used to download materials. There really ought to be a minimum requirements note in the introductory post… I'll mention it to SecondMan.


Erm...


Introductory post wrote:
What do I need to run Reactor?


You need Fusion (Free) or Fusion Studio version 9.0.2 or later running on Mac, Windows or Linux to enjoy the full functionality of Reactor and its content.



:)

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:20 pm
by ThomasManz
Pieter Van Houte wrote:What do I need to run Reactor?

You need Fusion (Free) or Fusion Studio version 9.0.2 or later running on Mac, Windows or Linux to enjoy the full functionality of Reactor and its content.


Ok, that implies that < 9.0.2 it's working just not will the full functionality. That doesn't sound like < 9.0.2 the installer fails completely because your version is off by 0.0.2 in my case.
But to be honest, I didn't read that requirement line, ;)


Chad Capeland wrote:So there's nothing stopping you from doing that in Fusion now, right? It's just a matter of setting up your hotkeys and some comp variables?

As I said, I don't know how to replicate that functionality in Fusion with hotkeys and comp variables. If you know a way I'd be happy to hear.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:15 pm
by Chad Capeland
ThomasManz wrote:
Chad Capeland wrote:So there's nothing stopping you from doing that in Fusion now, right? It's just a matter of setting up your hotkeys and some comp variables?

As I said, I don't know how to replicate that functionality in Fusion with hotkeys and comp variables. If you know a way I'd be happy to hear.


Hotkeys can have different contexts for different parts of the UI and you can have them directly execute scripts in Lua or Python. You can create arbitrary per-comp persistent data (CustomData) using a script. So you could have a hotkey that per-viewer checks the comp for a list of which tool outputs are assigned to the indices and show those tools in the viewer. This would work for any output type, be it image, 3D scene, material, number, etc..

There may be a documentation issue, but that's more of the real wish in this case. It's not so much that you want to be able to view an index of tools in the viewer, it's more that you want a way to easily customize the UI for your needs. That's a wish I can get behind. :D

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:35 pm
by Ahab's Compass
Automatic left/right eye timing sync to deal with camera timing sync issues using audio. e.g., this is a basic feature in Kodak Pixmax's 3D stitching software.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:36 pm
by Bryan Ray
Pieter Van Houte wrote:Erm...

<snip>

:)


My bad. :oops:

Time to get my glasses checked?

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:16 pm
by alan bovine
ThomasManz wrote:Ok, that implies that < 9.0.2 it's working just not will the full functionality. That doesn't sound like < 9.0.2 the installer fails completely because your version is off by 0.0.2 in my case.
But to be honest, I didn't read that requirement line, ;)


9.0.2 or later, does literally mean 9.0.2 or later. It does not in any way shape or form imply that previous versions are going to work at all. Even if it would; any errors should be attributed to the user at that point.

As I said, I don't know how to replicate that functionality in Fusion with hotkeys and comp variables. If you know a way I'd be happy to hear.


The scripts and files I've provided to you (fusion.fu) files lets you do this stuff. If not explicitly then at least they'll show you the way.

As a community we try to help each other with solutions to requests big and small, but there HAS to be SOME investment on users behalf.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:38 pm
by ThomasManz
Chad Capeland wrote:So you could have a hotkey that per-viewer checks the comp for a list of which tool outputs are assigned to the indices and show those tools in the viewer. This would work for any output type, be it image, 3D scene, material, number, etc..

Could you please clarify that, because I can't follow what your saying.
What is assigned to what indices?
I'm not quite sure if we are talking about the same thing.

alan bovine wrote:9.0.2 or later, does literally mean 9.0.2 or later. It does not in any way shape or form imply that previous versions are going to work at all.

Read carefully, it does. The quote goes:
You need Fusion (Free) or Fusion Studio version 9.0.2 or later running on Mac, Windows or Linux to enjoy the FULL FUNCTIONALITY...

This means that you need 9.0.2 or higher only to use the FULL FUNCTIONALITY and below 9.0.2 you can only use it with limited functionality. This quote doesn't express that 9.0.2 is required to get going AT ALL, you only need it for full functionality.

alan bovine wrote:The scripts and files I've provided to you (fusion.fu) files lets you do this stuff. If not explicitly then at least they'll show you the way.

As a community we try to help each other with solutions to requests big and small, but there HAS to be SOME investment on users behalf.


Relax, I'm already reading the scripting documentation but
  1. I have problems using python. When I use the py2, py3 tabs in the console it says that neither 2.7 or 3.6 are found. In the Preferences > Global > Script the python versions are greyed out, I can't select them. I'm on Xubuntu so I have python3.5 pre-installed but it's not recognised and I'm struggling to find out how to fix this.
  2. since out of legacy most scripting around Fusion is Lua based, I'm now learning Lua, make myself familiar with the syntax and stuff but that takes a little time, so be a little patient with me or did you got into Fusion scripting over night.
  3. at the end of the day I'd rather be a Fusion user than a Fusion developer. I can't spend all my time scripting some macros and plugins and stuff to develop functionality that rather/better should be implemented nativly.

So please
alan bovine wrote:...but there HAS to be SOME investment on users behalf

I think I'm doing enough to consider it more than "SOME".

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:54 pm
by Chad Capeland
ThomasManz wrote:
Chad Capeland wrote:So you could have a hotkey that per-viewer checks the comp for a list of which tool outputs are assigned to the indices and show those tools in the viewer. This would work for any output type, be it image, 3D scene, material, number, etc..

Could you please clarify that, because I can't follow what your saying.
What is assigned to what indices?
I'm not quite sure if we are talking about the same thing.


You'll need to have some sort of index of which outputs are being requested. Like 1-10 or whatever. So you make an array that's stored in the comp's CustomData where you set each entry in the array to an output and you get/set those with a hotkey. So you might have hotkeys that assign and output to the index and one that takes the indexed output and puts it in the viewer.

It's possible to make a GUI for this, but it's not really necessary, it sounds like you just want to set up the number row to be the hotkeys with a modifier key.

ThomasManz wrote:I can't spend all my time scripting some macros and plugins and stuff to develop functionality that rather/better should be implemented nativly.


You sort of have to. Fusion is marketed as a compositor but it's designed as a image pipeline tool. You can do compositing with it out of the box, but what you're asking for is the kind of things that it does via customization. Any wish that is nothing more than a customization of existing functionality is a sink for BMD and should be left in the hands of the users.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:22 am
by Miltos Pilalitos
ThomasManz wrote:In Fusion the only way I see to get a rapid change comparison is to either drag the nodes into the viewer or select nodeA hit 1, select nodeB hit 1 again, select nodeA hit 1...and so on. Both methods require you to take your eyes of the viewer get the required node and load it to the viewer.



Have you noticed the 'A', 'A|B' and 'B' buttons in the lower part of the viewer? Those are the viewer's buffers. You can simply drag and drop the nodes you want in each buffer and then press ',' or '.' to swap between them.

',' and '.' are strategically placed next to each other for minimum finger displacement and zero eye movement. It is really quick.

As a bonus you can press the A|B button and manually drag and wipe between the two buffers for additional pleasure.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:46 am
by ThomasManz
Chad Capeland wrote:You sort of have to. Fusion is marketed as a compositor but it's designed as a image pipeline tool. You can do compositing with it out of the box, but what you're asking for is the kind of things that it does via customization. Any wish that is nothing more than a customization of existing functionality is a sink for BMD and should be left in the hands of the users.

Ok, that's a question of philosophy.
How far does customisation go and where does development start?
In one of my examples, comparing nodes instantly with the number keys, your solution involves some significant scripting/development. I need an array, listen to keystrokes, evalutae them, save nodes in the array at specific indeces and then load them to the viewer. That's much more than customisation for me, where you go into the preferences, choose whatever option you want to customise, click save and done. Your not suggesting customisation of functionality that is there but to develop functionality with an api that is there. Big difference for me. With the same reasoning you could almost say: Download yourself C, C++ and customise in a way that you get your ideal compositing software.
If you got a missing feature on your house, like no balkony, do you go to the hardwarestore (your api with all the tools you need) and build that functionality yourself or do you request a professional, with much more experience, to do if for you?


Miltos Pilalitos wrote:Have you noticed the 'A', 'A|B' and 'B' buttons in the lower part of the viewer? Those are the viewer's buffers. You can simply drag and drop the nodes you want in each buffer and then press ',' or '.' to swap between them.

',' and '.' are strategically placed next to each other for minimum finger displacement and zero eye movement. It is really quick.

As a bonus you can press the A|B button and manually drag and wipe between the two buffers for additional pleasure.

I knew about the A/B swipe comparison but didn't know about ",", "." hotkeys. I think I can accept that as an intermediate solutions but it's still clumsy to settup the A/B buffers everytime I wanna do that and it's still limited to two.
But thanks for hint.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:24 pm
by Chad Capeland
ThomasManz wrote:Ok, that's a question of philosophy.
How far does customisation go and where does development start?
In one of my examples, comparing nodes instantly with the number keys, your solution involves some significant scripting/development. I need an array, listen to keystrokes, evalutae them, save nodes in the array at specific indeces and then load them to the viewer. That's much more than customisation for me, where you go into the preferences, choose whatever option you want to customise, click save and done. Your not suggesting customisation of functionality that is there but to develop functionality with an api that is there. Big difference for me. With the same reasoning you could almost say: Download yourself C, C++ and customise in a way that you get your ideal compositing software.
If you got a missing feature on your house, like no balkony, do you go to the hardwarestore (your api with all the tools you need) and build that functionality yourself or do you request a professional, with much more experience, to do if for you?


Um, YOU are the professional. You're the builder. The homeowner is the client who needs an ad or title sequence or VFX shot finished. The client doesn't want a shed that rolls off a flatbed, they want a custom house, and that's what you are supposed to be able to provide. If you can't handle the full amount of work that professional compositing requires, sub some of it out to someone who can. No one is expecting you to be the hero, but they are expecting you to be professional.

What's the difference between a Blur node and Image:Blur(Output, {})?
Nothing.
Fusion doesn't composite footage for you, you arrange nodes in the flow and tell it which to render. That's the same "customization" as setting up some hotkeys. The developers aren't paid to do the work for you, they just provide the means for you to do it. If you start up Fusion and just sit in front of it, nothing will happen. Everything you do with the software is custom development. That's the point. You bought a toolbox and you need to treat it as such to be successful.

If the tools don't exist at all, then sure, request something. No user was going to build a Linux version on their own, you needed the developers to make that happen. But when everything is already there waiting for you, you're expected to do the work in a professional manner or subcontract that out.

Toggle local/world transform in 3D view, and some more

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:07 am
by Marin Goleminov
I'd like to see some basic additions to the 3D transform (gizmo):

- a toggle for local/world orientation of the move/rotate/scale handles
- a plane movement handle, or a modifier key that enables movement along a plane (e.g. holding shift and dragging the X-axis-handle moves along the plane perpendicular to it, YZ)
- a handle, or again modifier key, that enables scaling along two axes.

I like working in a single viewport, use a lot of 3D elements and want less viewport switching. I guess the addition would speed up some 3D related workflows.

What do You think?

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:50 pm
by Marc Gasser
+1 for better audio support, also visible in the Timeline.

and what I really miss is a working Network Rendering under Linux.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:13 pm
by Sander de Regt
+1 for better audio support, also visible in the Timeline.

Support could indeed be better, but it is already visibile in the timeline so that's 1 out of 2 fulfilled. :-)

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:51 pm
by Aurore de Blois
Todd Groves wrote:I would like to see the Polygon node be capable of containing multiple masks in one node, like Nuke has, as shown in this image.
What's nice about this setup, is that you can create multiple masks, and then use the "Root" as a point where you can attach a track.


old fusion did this. i prefer the way they changed it to individual nodes, personally.
i doubt they'll dial this back to something from 10 years ago ;)
Au

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:51 pm
by Aurore de Blois
Todd Groves wrote:I would like to see the Polygon node be capable of containing multiple masks in one node, like Nuke has, as shown in this image.
What's nice about this setup, is that you can create multiple masks, and then use the "Root" as a point where you can attach a track.


old fusion did this. i prefer the way they changed it to individual nodes, personally.
i doubt they'll dial this back to something from 10 years ago ;)
Au

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:35 pm
by Chad Capeland
Aurore de Blois wrote:
Todd Groves wrote:I would like to see the Polygon node be capable of containing multiple masks in one node, like Nuke has, as shown in this image.
What's nice about this setup, is that you can create multiple masks, and then use the "Root" as a point where you can attach a track.


old fusion did this. i prefer the way they changed it to individual nodes, personally.
i doubt they'll dial this back to something from 10 years ago ;)
Au


Something I WOULD like to see is a non-rasterizing mask setup. Like you have 10 tools with 10 shapes and only the currently viewed tool rasterizes. Would allow for transforms with no filtering losses and memory savings by not having multiple images in cache. Would also allow for tools like offset, signed distance, etc..

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:19 am
by PixelMan
New to Fusion so there's a lot I don't know yet. I don't want to come in here and tell people way more experienced with this app "how it should be," but I do want to share a few things that I think will make Fusion adoption increase. Would love to see this app unseat After Effects given how slow that team has been to develop a new core to leverage modern hardware, and to update the layer-heavy workflow in substantial ways.

The main problem... having done a lot of work in AE and C4D, to me the #1 issue with this app is accessibility. And by that I mean the UI. I don't have a problem working with or learning to use new kinds of nodes, but the problem is that a lot of the functionality is obscured behind the iconography that is used in the toolbar. I get that there's a user base and ingrained user habits to consider here (again I don't want to be "that guy") but it goes against every HUI guideline I've ever seen to set up toolbar icons as letters and abbreviations rather than symbolic representations of the function in question. I get that it's very space-efficient and clean-looking, but it's also very cryptic. I did check UI preferences and layouts in Window menu but do not see an iconographic option. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken. If not...

Suggestion 1: UI Improvements: build in an OPTIONAL workspace / layout type that includes true symbolic iconography for all of the toolbar nodes / functions. This will be a big deal for people coming from AE and 3D apps. It's what we're used to. :)

Other than that, the S1, S2, S3 mode of operating in the Tools tab is a little off-putting / visually non-descriptive, but all else seems pretty clean and nice UI-wise.

Suggestion 2: SDK / Plug-in Friendly: if it hasn't been done already supply an open SDK for developers like Red Giant, Video Copilot, and others, so that they can (if they choose) bring their top products to Fusion. I know there's a ton you can do in Nodes but sometimes people don't have time to learn the thousands of possible permutations to get the look they want. Make the switch from AE easy: work with top plugin devs to get the most important products into this space. IMHO this is the easiest way to make thousands of AE converts.If I could come to Fusion knowing that all or most of my skills with Trapcode suite or Stardust or VCP are not lost, it would make the transition a no-brainer.

No subscription BS and fair license pricing? check
Better performance / more frequent performance updates? check
Integration with Resolve? check
Minimize lost investment in terms of plugin skills lost? check


Suggestion 3: CUDA / CL / Metal everywhere: if it hasn't been done already GPU accelerate all effects where it makes sense programmatically, and give those three platforms parity so people don't end up with GPU purchasing decision headaches. I realize this one is easier said than done and not necessary in all cases.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:36 am
by Bryan Ray
PixelMan wrote:I get that there's a user base and ingrained user habits to consider here (again I don't want to be "that guy") but it goes against every HUI guideline I've ever seen to set up toolbar icons as letters and abbreviations rather than symbolic representations of the function in question. I get that it's very space-efficient and clean-looking, but it's also very cryptic.


I wouldn't mind seeing an option for icons, but to be honest, I generally find icons to be more cryptic. When PFTrack shifted to pictograms where they used to have text buttons, it slowed me down. I don't like having to squint at the screen and try to guess what the designers had in mind with two little rectangles and an arrow. Is that copy? Paste? Save? I don't know.

In any case, if you would like an iconic tool selection option, try opening the Bins. It takes up quite a lot of screen real estate, but you'll get icons and more descriptive tool names that will help you to learn the tools in your early days.

Suggestion 2: SDK / Plug-in Friendly: if it hasn't been done already supply an open SDK for developers like Red Giant, Video Copilot, and others, so that they can (if they choose) bring their top products to Fusion.


An SDK exists, although it's not advertised. And Fusion can run OFX plug-ins, provided they're compliant with the OFX spec. Many aren't—they have compromises built-in to make them work for the particular host apps they were tested for that causes them to not work so well elsewhere. And Fusion hasn't had enough market share in the past to motivate the plug-in vendors to code toward it. BUT, many do run. Neat Video, Re:Vision, Sapphire (if you're made of money), and Frischluft all run in Fusion. I'm sure others do, too, but those are the ones I can vouch for.

I don't see any point in porting Trapcode—Fusion can do pretty much everything TC can with its own tools.

In addition to compiled plug-in support, Fusion can also run scripted plug-ins called Fuses that are written in Lua and/or OpenCL. Motivated TDs can thus create their own tools to fill in any gaps they perceive. We hope that the recent launch of the Reactor package manager will prompt even more people to create and share new tools.

Suggestion 3: CUDA / CL / Metal everywhere: if it hasn't been done already GPU accelerate all effects where it makes sense programmatically, and give those three platforms parity so people don't end up with GPU purchasing decision headaches. I realize this one is easier said than done and not necessary in all cases.


Most of Fusion's tools have an OpenCL mode. The jury's still out on whether it actually does run faster. I haven't run my benchmarks on 9.0.2 yet. 9.0 was actually faster with OpenCL turned off for some reason.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:14 pm
by PixelMan
Fair points Bryan.

UI: I do get that iconography when not done well, is also cryptic and that some symbols would be easier to figure out than others (i.e. it's not a trivial request). But definitely I think it should be an optional thing. I wouldn't suggest removing the existing metaphor, only adding to it, in order to help bridge the familiarity gap. Sort of wearing my alpha- / beta-tester hat for this one, as much as the end-user hat. Just feels like the right thing to do.

Plugins: didn't know that about the OFX compliance compatibility thing. Honestly I'm not sure which of my favorite would be OFX compliant (probably not most), but it's worth Black Magic partnering with major plugin developers to make this happen in some cases. WRT Particular I had a feeling someone would say that and I don't doubt it. Really it's less about the power of specific nodes being able to perform some function or create a look (I'm sure given enough time the possibilities are pretty limitless) but more of a way to help new users get stuff done quickly when they don't have time to drill down into the large set of functions that are available through various FX nodes.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:23 pm
by alan bovine
PixelMan wrote:
UI: I do get that iconography when not done well, is also cryptic and that some symbols would be easier to figure out than others (i.e. it's not a trivial request). But definitely I think it should be an optional thing. I wouldn't suggest removing the existing metaphor, only adding to it, in order to help bridge the familiarity gap. Sort of wearing my alpha- / beta-tester hat for this one, as much as the end-user hat. Just feels like the right thing to do.


On the viewer, have you tried right clicking on the icons ? You can set them to :

Icons only
Text only
Icons AND text

On tools that provide you with on screen controls (paint, gridwarp, tracker etc) you can also right click the icons and change them to text, icon or both.

Curious about icons and tools ? Open up the bin (ctrl+b) and see beautiful colored icons depicting the nodes functionality for each tool.

Don't like the bar at the top with the shortening of node names ? Right click and get rid of it and use the bins or right click menu or shift-space menu to add nodes instead.

I'm no ux expert; but AE's workflows and UX is something I wouldn't use as a reference when talking about Fusion; broadly speaking.

-aln

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:49 pm
by Chad Capeland
It's also worth noting that the toolbars were always meant to be customized. Yeah, it ships with a default toolbar that used to be used to "announce" new tools, but now it's just there. Best case? Make your own. Second best case? Delete it, since in it's default form it's using too much real estate. But that explains why it is text instead of icons, if you make a custom glow setting or a macro for light wrapping or whatever, you want to put that in a toolbar according to your needs, but you don't want to necessarily make an icon for that. Would it be cool if you could store a bitmap alongside the item referenced in the toolbar and have it display that? I guess. I wouldn't use it, but maybe others might.

As for OFX compatibility, OFX is garbage. If I had to choose between BPD spending resources to get plugin developers making Fusion-specific OFX shims or spending resources to get plugin developers to use the SDK, I'd choose SDK. When Avid and Adobe start supporting OFX plugins, maybe my opinion would change, but right now, it's better to let OFX languish in favor of native support.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:23 pm
by Adrian Niwa
I have one request.
(or maybe there is a solution already but I don't know about it)

Typing values with 'coma' doesn't work. You have to use 'dot'.
Values like 1.37 will work
1,37 will not.

It annoyes me since I work a lot with numeric keypad, and there is coma there.

Also I'm working on multiple screens. Pretty often I can't use ctrl+spacebar to activate the tools menu. It just doesn't work.
In this case, I have to click somewhere on the main screen first and then I can use ctrl+spacebar.

Small bugs - lot's of annoyance...

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:48 pm
by PixelMan
Chad Capeland wrote:It's also worth noting that the toolbars were always meant to be customized. Yeah, it ships with a default toolbar that used to be used to "announce" new tools, but now it's just there. Best case? Make your own. Second best case? Delete it, since in it's default form it's using too much real estate. But that explains why it is text instead of icons, if you make a custom glow setting or a macro for light wrapping or whatever, you want to put that in a toolbar according to your needs, but you don't want to necessarily make an icon for that. Would it be cool if you could store a bitmap alongside the item referenced in the toolbar and have it display that? I guess. I wouldn't use it, but maybe others might.

As for OFX compatibility, OFX is garbage. If I had to choose between BPD spending resources to get plugin developers making Fusion-specific OFX shims or spending resources to get plugin developers to use the SDK, I'd choose SDK. When Avid and Adobe start supporting OFX plugins, maybe my opinion would change, but right now, it's better to let OFX languish in favor of native support.


Interesting re toolbar customization / custom icons. Didn't know that but will look into it.

Re; OFX vs. SDK, didn't realize they were mutually exclusive but to me the only thing that matters is, can we get some of the top plugins in this environment and working reliably for version 10? How it gets done matters less than it getting done and it being stable.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:02 pm
by Chad Capeland
PixelMan wrote:Re; OFX vs. SDK, didn't realize they were mutually exclusive but to me the only thing that matters is, can we get some of the top plugins in this environment and working reliably for version 10? How it gets done matters less than it getting done and it being stable.


The SDK is there, just have to ask for it. Send an email to Red Giant or whomever and tell them if they make a Fusion plugin you'll buy n copies. Blackmagic likely doesn't see a need to spend money to motivate other software companies to make money. Could they put a page up on the site with more information about the SDK availability? Probably would be a good idea.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:11 pm
by PixelMan
[Edit - quoted wrong post, apologies...]

Alan:
Need clarification on toolbar customization and the right-click > Text and Icon, Text Only, Icon only thing. Is that Studio version only? The only option available in the version I have results in the Customize Toolbar dialog opening with a full list of all tools that can be added but no ability to chose text vs. icons or any other features. I can either leave the "common set" of text buttons intact or remove them and add a different combination of text buttons.

Checked UI prefs again to be sure I didn't miss an option here for icons. None found. v9.0.2 (free)
Will dig into the PDF manual, see if I can find something but suspect my issue here is the version I'm using. That or I'm misunderstanding something.

I DO see the icons for all the tools when looking at them via Bins > Tools on LocalHost... so it seems that iconography does exist for all of these things. I'm just not clear on whether or how that could be applied to any/all tools that are in the Toolbar. The search continues, but posting this comment in case others new to the app view this thread / have the same confusion.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:20 pm
by Bryan Ray
That's only for the buttons in the Viewer, not the Toolbar.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:37 pm
by PixelMan
Bryan Ray wrote:That's only for the buttons in the Viewer, not the Toolbar.


Thanks Bryan. We just posted at same time / I corrected myself on the quoting, elaborated a bit further but I see now what you guys are driving at from your screenshot.

So basically that iconographic option doesn't exist for the toolbar, you'd have to roll your own sounds like. Which I get this isn't a beginner's toolset but I do think it's further evidence that Black Magic needs to somehow leverage the tool bin iconography for the toolbar. Maybe hire a UX person on contract to do just that so it's not a drain on the regular development cycle.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:02 pm
by Sander de Regt
Icons for the toolbar will only cost screen real estate and there are way more tools by default than there is space on the toolbar anyway. Biting the bullet and just learn the couple of abbreviations you actually need might probably your best bet.
Or if it is really, really, important to you: roll your own, create a custom Fusion UI especially for this purpose and share it on Reactor. All these options will be quicker than hoping that Fusion 10 will bring this to you in a magical way.

Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:56 pm
by PixelMan
Wouldn't so much be done magically as the developer just deciding it's important and doing it one day down the road, but your point is taken. Learning this UI is going to be challenge. Other than the basic connection and parameter editing methods, nothing about this app is familiar when compared to Cycles or other nodal environments I've used.

Since it's out of scope for a FR thread, if anyone has recommendations beyond the manual (which is thorough but not a how-to style reference), a PM with your favored how-to Fusion web sites or tutorial sites is appreciated.