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Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

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RamaRao

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Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 5:26 am

Hi all,
Can any one have update on Fusion 10 release from SIGGRAPH 2018, kindly let us know.

Thanks,
Rao.
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Thomas Martin

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 5:53 am

Yes, this is exactly what I am waiting for. All this guesswork and the wishes for new features are futile.
If I were in Vancouver, I would ask any of these BMD people until I get an answer...which, I bet, simply is, we see an EOL for the standalone next year.
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Kel Philm

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 5:53 am

I don't think we'll see anything at Siggraph unfortunately. They only had a banner up for Resolve 15, usually their banners are a good indication of whats happening.

I'm going to vent now so switch off if you don't want to hear it.

Its looking very much like someone at BM has made a call that moving it into Resolve was a great idea and is exactly what compositors needed, a bloated nobbled version of there previous application that they do not want or use 80% of the functionality of. But now also colourists will have something they can use once a month instead of the huge overhead of opening another application which will save them a huge amount of time, until they start to try to do something with it.

In my opinion Fusion into Resolve is a dumb idea and a waste of time. I grade features, even I just use VFX connect for quick fixes, its a much better option for me.

Fusion is going to lose ground on Foundry and probably disappear due to lack of attention. They pour so much effort into Resolve, listen to users, regular updates, but what I don't understand is you go into any big post house they are 10 compositors to 1 colourist. Resolve is not a top tier editor in my opinion.

How ever made the call on what to do with Fusion is entirely of my Xmas card list. Upside though is I often get made to look like a fool when I vent sooooo ...
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 6:51 am

Kel Philm wrote:In my opinion Fusion into Resolve is a dumb idea and a waste of time.


Sorry you feel that way, but I would urge you to consider that what might seem dumb to you is pretty exciting to others.

To answer the OP's question — Not. But I think Resolve 16 is coming next year with some cool new features, and I believe that BMD has some pretty smart people at the helm who have a very unique vision as to where things are headed and right now are shaping the trends for many years to come.

Only time will tell, but I would urge everyone to keep an open mind rather than assume that BMD is making dumb choices.
>>Kays Alatrakchi
www.mbkproductions.com
Director, Colorist, Composer (not necessarily in that order).
Resolve 14.2, Mac OS X 10.12.5 (Sierra), i7 6700k, 32Gb DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080, Decklink Mini Monitor.
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Kel Philm

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 7:59 am

Fusion into Resolve is good for Resolve users, not for Fusion users. I don't think many serious VFX artists will use Fusion in Resolve, we work on a shot by shot basis.

Its all my opinion, based on my knowledge, its not fact. I am interested in others opinions on the topic though, but more so those who composite for a living as it is a composting application.

The people I consider to be the Fusion Gods do not appear to be moving over and there are also a lot of anxious posts are about asking if stand alone Fusion is going to stick around, there is a reason for this.
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Markus Cermak

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 8:16 am

Well since BMD took over Fusion it´s a oh cmon wait for next year they are smart they will blow your mind.... no they didn´t and they wont.

Their lack of a proper software development structure and feedback in regards to the costumers of Davinci and Fusion makes me cringe every time.

I don´t think that ResolveFusion was a dump Idea I can see a couple of jobs where it can be useful but it´s in no way a replacement for a VFX heavy task.

But not going forward with Fusion standalone would be a dump Idea.

I would have hope for both.
In Fusion standalone, if they would just include a somehow easier to manage timeline where "groups" or lets call it compound clips could be easily managed which would contain full .comps in them and get us some Audio tracks so it would be possible to animate to and work with simple audio tasks
Then include a simple shot/project management tool ala "epp" generation was (they would be the first with a feature like that.)

They could kick ass with both product lines and ppl could choose whats the best option for the given task.

Since the EOL of Avid DS there are ppl looking for a similar kind of replacement and BMD could have stepped in.
But I think the power of BMD would have been in two power full Products... Davinci Resolve with Fusion and Fusion Standalone.

But trying to force me to use Davinci Fusion and forcing on me a non customizable GUI wont hold me another year just to see if V16 will get any better.
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Rajiv Mudgal

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 8:28 am

I know how others can feel. We are a small Color Grading cum 3D Animation studio and heavily relay on Mocha for all our ROTO stuff including 3D camera solve.
with Fusion and Fairlight in Resolve we have noticed a massive speed increase in our output.
Thats all I can say.
True 3D animation composting can be straight forward compared to a complex VFX.

We haven't implemented deep compositing in our studio so dont miss 10, still we will keep using Fusion but eventually Resolve will become our kitchen sink.
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Thomas Martin

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 10:17 am

Leaving the future of Fusion standalone open clearly causes a serious sales decay. After a while this will be taken as an argument why the standalone will be dropped. This is the not uncommon strategy of shifting responsibilities to others. And do no forget the fact that Fusion studio users can now use Resolve studio for free. Why ? Since it replaces Fusion, This is the only rational explanation and it made this road visiblle for anyone willing to see it. Sorry, but to me it appears naive to hope for Fusion 10.
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 5:36 pm

Kel Philm wrote:Fusion into Resolve is good for Resolve users, not for Fusion users. I don't think many serious VFX artists will use Fusion in Resolve, we work on a shot by shot basis.


There is nothing in Resolve that prevents you from doing that, but of course you are free to think as you wish.



To address some of the other posts, I'd be willing to bet that the market share for Fusion Studio wasn't all that to begin with. I would guess that BMD knew that going in, and their plan all along from day one was to bring the Fusion technology into Resolve just like they did with Fairlight.

Let's be real, most VFX houses at the moment are either team Nuke or team Aftereffects. At least by bringing Fusion into Resolve, BMD is offering an option that nobody else has, and that might give them a hell of a lot wider market share than keeping Fusion as its own app.

I see Fusion's integration into Resolve as a good thing in the long term, but at the moment there are growing pains for sure. Fusion in Resolve is slower, and clunkier, but that will change soon enough.

As I said before, I think Fusion standalone will continue to exist until there is 100% version/performance parity within Resolve.
>>Kays Alatrakchi
www.mbkproductions.com
Director, Colorist, Composer (not necessarily in that order).
Resolve 14.2, Mac OS X 10.12.5 (Sierra), i7 6700k, 32Gb DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080, Decklink Mini Monitor.
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Kel Philm

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 7:46 pm

Fusion is good enough to compete with Nuke, in some ways better, but these are serious products and BM's treatment of Fusion is not going unnoticed. I accept at these prices they cant offer support but I personally would be happy with subscription at twice the price.

Integration into Resolve would be a good thing if it was not to the detriment of stand alone Fusion which has not even seen a much needed maintenance upgrade in a very long time.

I am a software engineer from a former life and having Fusion inside Resolve imposes limitations that cannot be ignored, needless resources will need to be allocated and architectures possibly restricted to accomodate the design of Resolve, sure with some clever work it can be minimised but at the end of the day these will be restrictions. This to some extent will hamper performance and development.

With regards to what users think, well here is the best metric we have.

https://www.steakunderwater.com/wesuckl ... =16&t=2385
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 9:36 pm

Kel Philm wrote:Its looking very much like someone at BM has made a call that moving it into Resolve was a great idea and is exactly what compositors needed


Which wouldn't be so bad if the person making that decision was a compositor. I don't have an issue with them making these kinds of decisions, I just wish they were informed decisions.
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com
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Abdelrahman Magdy

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 16, 2018 11:55 pm

My hope is that, if BMD decides to kill stand-alone Fusion (which I hope they don't), they would at least get as much feedback from compositors to be able to meet what they need.

I think Fusion inside Resolve is a brilliant idea. It gives Fusion a better timeline than what it had before, it actually prompted BMD to improve Resolve's handling of alpha channels (although this still needs to improve), and it makes the simple compositing tasks a breeze since you don't need to go through the whole Fusion connect process.

But, for me, all that works as part of the pipeline that includes Fusion. For me, I see the pipeline as follows:
1) The editor, working inside Resolve, would create quick slap comps that better visualizes the story and provides an idea of what s/he is looking for from the compositing team.
2) These comps would be then saved from Resolve as Fusion *.comp files that the compositor would build upon until the final shot is delivered either as a final render or imported back as a live comp inside Resolve.

This way, we have a complete workflow that, with continued development and improvement to both Resolve and Fusion, could replace Nuke and Nuke Studio, at least for new and smaller facilities that don't have established pipelines.
System specs:
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 3:54 am

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:As I said before, I think Fusion standalone will continue to exist until there is 100% version/performance parity within Resolve.


But there's been no comment at all from BDP about that.

It's far more likely that 100% parity is impossible and not a goal at all.
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 4:53 am

Chad Capeland wrote:It's far more likely that 100% parity is impossible and not a goal at all.


Never say never. 8-)

However BMD still has plenty of issues to address and I find it hard to believe that they would EOL Fusion standalone before the Resolve alternative is much more refined (which at the moment isn't).

But ultimately you're right, the silence has been deafening.
>>Kays Alatrakchi
www.mbkproductions.com
Director, Colorist, Composer (not necessarily in that order).
Resolve 14.2, Mac OS X 10.12.5 (Sierra), i7 6700k, 32Gb DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080, Decklink Mini Monitor.
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostSat Aug 18, 2018 1:06 am

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:
Chad Capeland wrote:It's far more likely that 100% parity is impossible and not a goal at all.


Never say never. 8-)

However BMD still has plenty of issues to address and I find it hard to believe that they would EOL Fusion standalone before the Resolve alternative is much more refined (which at the moment isn't).

But ultimately you're right, the silence has been deafening.


Point is parity is likely impossible. BMD has never expressed an interest in that.
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com
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Stefan Kirste

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostTue Aug 21, 2018 1:46 pm

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:
Kel Philm wrote:Fusion into Resolve is good for Resolve users, not for Fusion users. I don't think many serious VFX artists will use Fusion in Resolve, we work on a shot by shot basis.


There is nothing in Resolve that prevents you from doing that, but of course you are free to think as you wish.


There is much! Simply say: 1 have one shot, with a Background to be need a retouch, with a 3d plate consist of 20 3d render passes. Additional some other objects withe the same amount aof 3d passes.
The next, the integration with live footage, and on the top some fancy stuff like lensflare, particle dust etc. ... this will have at least 5 comps. This and so much more, u cant handle.

The other thinks u mention, are may right... Fusion users are more less then nuke users.... but for them it is pain, waiting years after bmd takes Fusion, and looking forward to see fusion grow.... but get disapointed :(
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Jeff Ha

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostWed Aug 22, 2018 11:16 am

The simple fact that stuff isn't working right now in FiR that it's pointless to use on a daily basis, if you're a compositor. It's fun to use to try out but it'll bite you in the ass in the long run. The media pool still doesn't work properly with imported alembic files (eg imported into one fusion comp and tried reusing by drag/dropping into another comp on same Resolve timeline). Multichannel EXR channel selections don't get saved outside of the session. Every loader in every comp reverts back to RGB once you exit out of Resolve. Simple stuff like that should have been caught versus putting out a final beta and a week later having it go Gold. It feels like the release was rushed for some reason. BMD is usually good about updating Resolve, faster than Fusion, so it'll catch up.

I just don't have hope for Fusion 10 any time soon considering they are focused on fixing and still integrating Fusion in Resolve. As others mentioned, I don't think there will be feature parity, which makes it more difficult for the developers to maintain builds between the two versions. I'm just glad when we have options to get the work done.. FiR, Fusion, Nuke, CC.
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostWed Aug 22, 2018 9:53 pm

Jeff Ha wrote: As others mentioned, I don't think there will be feature parity


I'm suggesting that there doesn't NEED to be feature parity. 80% of Fusion in Resolve is good enough. 10% of Resolve in Fusion is good enough. In totally made up math, 80% + 10% = 90%, which is less than 100%. If BMD wanted to give users what they actually need, they'd focus on that and pocket the remaining 10% as profit.

If BMD focused on user stories instead of some marketing BS like "fully integrated", we'd all be much happier and more profitable.
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 1:16 am

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. 10 years from now, the idea of having to jump to different apps for compositing to editing to color grading will seem downright medieval.

I think BMD is on the right path, I also think they're quite a bit ahead of the curve on this one.

What I meant by version parity is basically that one is able to do anything they can do in standalone Fusion within Resolve. 3d set extensions, crypto matte, multi-channel EXR, and on. I think this is not only achievable, it's absolutely what BMD is trying to get to asap.
>>Kays Alatrakchi
www.mbkproductions.com
Director, Colorist, Composer (not necessarily in that order).
Resolve 14.2, Mac OS X 10.12.5 (Sierra), i7 6700k, 32Gb DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080, Decklink Mini Monitor.
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Shawn Astrom

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 1:44 am

I'm all for Resolve 15 with Fusion. Coming from the Adobe world (Dynamic Link Nightmare) what Blackmagic is doing is amazing.

Please just try and make the Fusion page 100% like the current Fusion Standalone with plugin support and all...

- Shawn
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Skye Williamson

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 2:27 am

So, as someone completely new to Fusion 9 and Resolve 15 — is there a list or comparison chart as to what hasn't made its way from Fusion into Resolve? I just emailed BMD about this but after reading this thread, not expecting a clear answer.

In short, I was heading to check out Nuke at Siggraph last year, and happened to stop at BMD. A demo rep, when he found out I was going to look at Nuke, said "hold my beer" (figuratively) and showed me Fusion 9. And the price tag. So, I was sold. I didn't get around to doing anything other than installing it in the past year. Then last week I was at Siggraph again, and this time chatted with another of their demo reps about what I saw last year, and he also said "hold my beer" and showed me the 2-day-old Fusion tab inside of Resolve. He gave me a personal demo of using nodes to put together a quick and dirty comp, tailored to the perspective of an AfterEffects user like myself. Asked if I knew Mocha and I said I was starting to learn, and he said "yeah, you can probably stop" and showed me the built-in planar tracking. Again, I was sold. Doubly so.

But I asked why Fusion still existed, and he said there were some things that hadn't made their way over yet, but he wasn't entirely sure what all those features were (he may have mentioned a couple). I asked if once they did that, they'd kill standalone Fusion, and he didn't know. So they don't even tell their demo reps all of this stuff. :)

That said, as a solo artist including audio production, I'm really excited having seen what you can do across the board in Resolve with Fusion and Fairlight in it now (the latter was new too, yeah?), and this is very exciting to me.

So I'm thinking maybe I just dive into Resolve since that may be the way forward, and that I'll be able to do most of the things I need to do to learn Fusion without feeling limited, at least yet. I'd just like to know what features I'd be missing if I never open Fusion 9, at least at this point.

Thanks!
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 5:22 am

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:I think you're missing the forest for the trees. 10 years from now, the idea of having to jump to different apps for compositing to editing to color grading will seem downright medieval.

It is highly depenent on the level of sophistication one needs from the software. A big frankenapp is great for all-arounders but will fall flat on its face for any deeper dedicated work. Workflow logic and user needs are clashing and while one part might thrive, others will suffer. In my opinion, developing this kind of big monolithic applications that are also mostly black box for users is something that will die off and will be replaced with modular concepts where data flow happens not only inside software but between different parts. Like node based compositing but with software modules. Some parts of workflow might happen in other networked computers, others in web services and so on. Or these modules might run directly in cloud servers and users only stream the image. The boom of VM based software streaming has not yet happened (except google apps) but it definitely will in 10 years.
I do stuff.
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 5:41 am

I agree with you on eventually things will be cloud based and we'll be running insanely powerful apps from our paper thin tablets.

Having said that, I would invite everyone to try to think beyond the post-production realities of 2018 and, to some degree, some old-school mindsets. Sophistication is relative, coming from an audio/music background, I can tell you that Pro Tools and Logic Pro do things nowadays that 10-15 years ago people would have thought utterly unnecessary, and that should be part of a different app. Yet the demands of audio and music post have made it necessary for professionals to not only be able to tackle far more tasks than previously necessary, but also to master them with a high degree of proficiency. The whole "jack of all trades, master of none" paradigm is becoming outdated by the day. When I look around at my peers, what I am seeing are more and more individuals who are insanely good at an incredible array of skills. Anyone who has the luxury of making a living in a narrow specialization needs to realize that they are incredibly lucky. From time to time I'll meet someone who only does green-screen compositing, or someone who only does camera tracking and it kinda blows my mind.

Anyway, I am exposed to more and more creatives who tackle more and more of the post production needs. Editors who can also do pretty impressive VFX and tackle color grading with great results are not uncommon.
>>Kays Alatrakchi
www.mbkproductions.com
Director, Colorist, Composer (not necessarily in that order).
Resolve 14.2, Mac OS X 10.12.5 (Sierra), i7 6700k, 32Gb DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080, Decklink Mini Monitor.
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Oyvind Fiksdal

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 10:12 am

Resolve for fusion or fusion for resolve? Because I get confused sometimes.

If the fusion project is small enough, than it feels ok to have it inside davinci resolve.. But when the fusion project becomes big, than it feels strange to waste resources into davinci resolve and fairlight.
A good example when you want to use Fusion standalone:
Last edited by Oyvind Fiksdal on Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chris Wells

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 5:55 pm

These are two separate markets, Post houses vs VFX houses. The professionals that wear all the hats and work on editing and color and even do impressive VFX vs the professionals that only do VFX. Can davinci do some VFX, sure, can it hold up to doing a very intense VFX show, no, no it can't.

Where I come from people specialize, on big films people specialize. If anyone thinks the next Big Marvel VFX could be done in davinci, well, they don't know enough to know how little they know. I'm not saying BMD is wrong for going after the post house/adobe market, it's a very big market, but it is naive to think davinci will replace/grow in the VFX house market. Will it replace compositing tasks, sure, some of the tasks. BMD is coming at this from a post house view, not a VFX house view. and it'll be great for you post house guys. All us old time VFX guys, well we aren't going to get with the times and start using davinci, we are going to keep using old Fusion until it's dying breath, or moving to Nuke and the foundry, a company that seems to get VFX houses. BMD will do fine, they will grow their post market that they understand and davinci user's will do some green screen comps and think they are now officially compositors. But davinci will not get the heavy VFX shots.

I wish BMD would continue to support and develop Fusion, But I think fundamentally they don't get VFX houses. They don't understand that market and it's needs.
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Theodor Groeneboom

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 8:13 pm

Chris Wells wrote:These are two separate markets, Post houses vs VFX houses. The professionals that wear all the hats and work on editing and color and even do impressive VFX vs the professionals that only do VFX. Can davinci do some VFX, sure, can it hold up to doing a very intense VFX show, no, no it can't.

Where I come from people specialize, on big films people specialize. If anyone thinks the next Big Marvel VFX could be done in davinci, well, they don't know enough to know how little they know. I'm not saying BMD is wrong for going after the post house/adobe market, it's a very big market, but it is naive to think davinci will replace/grow in the VFX house market. Will it replace compositing tasks, sure, some of the tasks. BMD is coming at this from a post house view, not a VFX house view. and it'll be great for you post house guys. All us old time VFX guys, well we aren't going to get with the times and start using davinci, we are going to keep using old Fusion until it's dying breath, or moving to Nuke and the foundry, a company that seems to get VFX houses. BMD will do fine, they will grow their post market that they understand and davinci user's will do some green screen comps and think they are now officially compositors. But davinci will not get the heavy VFX shots.

I wish BMD would continue to support and develop Fusion, But I think fundamentally they don't get VFX houses. They don't understand that market and it's needs.


This is very true unfortunately. It would make sense to get VFX houses involved with the development, but from my understanding that was not the case. It was put in there for the editors and colourists to play with.

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:I think you're missing the forest for the trees. 10 years from now, the idea of having to jump to different apps for compositing to editing to color grading will seem downright medieval.


I think you're missing the point entirely from a VFX house point of view. See Chris's answer. Specialised tools exists to focus on industry specific problems. Its less so that its missing features, Resolves architecture and forced workflow is incompatible how VFX houses does work. That would be OK if the proposed workflow was better, but it isn't. Its severely limiting.

Here's just two major showstoppers


1. Database VS files on disk

Resolve uses a DB, VFX houses in general tend to have their own DB coupled with files on disk. Files on disc are a de-fact standard in VFX. The files (.comp, .nk, .shk) are ASCII files thats easy to read and easy to manage with third party manipulation. Granular control is KEY. Files on disk is a KEY element.

Here's a couple of issues caused by not having files on disk or direct access :

* Backup issues with using a DB instead of files. Restoring single versions of a .comp instead of having to restore an entire projects database. Imagine an artist gets a corrupted .comp and needs to restore a previous version, this is easy with restoring the single file from yesterday. But if you have to restore the entire snapshot of yesterdays DB then you'll not only waste resources but potentially revert back the ENTIRE project by 1 day. This isn't a hypothetical example, its everyday.

* Version issues, lighting, compositing, paint & roto and DMP departments all use comp to generate images for review and presentation. The segmentation between departments and artists are usually done via naming convention and storage location on disk. A single compositor can easily do 100s of file versions of a single shot when you count major and minor version. A lighting artist might have less versions but still 50+. This is all excluding hidden shadow copies of the .comps meant for render-farm usage. Currently in Resolve 15 there are no way to scale to these numbers with Fusion, no way to specifically label or fetch comps based on departments or any other tags. Which are usually done via file name and naming convention of .comps on disk.

* Size issues, if a single shot can consist of lets say a 500 .comp versions of a shot (100 for comp, 20 for lighting, 40 for paint and roto, 10 for tracking, 40 for DMP, 20 for environments, and 100 for models, 100 for FX and 70 for anim) And if each version gets rendered on the farm 5 times (a VERY conservative number) thats 2500 .comps pr shot. Compositors often include 2d and 3d tracks in their files, and paint and roto also includes a lot of paint and roto strokes, these operations usually make a .comp grow significantly in size. Again if we choose a conservative size of 5mb pr comp we end up with 12.5gb in just RAW project files for a SINGLE shot. Not counting image/geometry data of course. Having to use Resolves DB to reconcile this data-management is unwarranted as most places have solved this issue with external naming convention, tracking tools and with the assurance that good file systems scale horizontally. This is untested ground in Resolve that the VFX industry at large have solved through naming and file structures.

* Naming issues, currently no way of naming or managing versions in Resolve beyond the most simplistic approach. The VFX industry has mostly agreed on some standards for naming conventions (the mpaa/marvel/WB all share very similar structures that all the VFX vendors adhere to).

* .Comps often need to live outside of a shot-context. Especially early on for assets, look-development and pipeline related work. Having them exclusively tied to a clip on a timeline is not needed and counterintuitive if you factor in multiple artists and vendor sharing.

These issues aren't just missing features, they are missing parts of the architecture from a VFX pov.


2.Deliver page doesn't scale

VFX is a VERY iterative and bi-directional process, not only is compositing at the heart but its responsible for farming out images to other departments in iterations, and bringing them back in in a feedback-loop-like process.

Comp departments are responsible for delivering content to other departments in unique specifications, example would be delivering a plate for 3d tracking. Comp renders out undistorted plates with internally neutral graded colors in both .EXR and .PNG for the trackers to work with. Often are blocking roto also provided. As the trackers are working on it there might be need to re-adust work and provide the tracking department with updated plates. A shot can also contain multiple plates (imagine multiple green screen elements, single shot stitch work etc).

This isn't limited to images, the FBXexport node shares the same sentiments. If a comper updates a camera track in Fusion it needs re-deliver it to the lighting, FX and anim departments.

Because the need to funnel image and geometry data in a bi-directional fashion the saver and loader nodes are KEY to provide a stable, predictable, scriptable way of splitting out images for various departments. At this scale; automation is KEY.

Currently the deliver page has VERY simplistic approach where each iteration would have to be manually edited should the output need to be changed pr department or even version.

Fusion standalone solves this with the Loader and Saver nodes, and it's scripting capabilities.

This shouldn't be an afterthought, it should be a core functionality if Resolve should be considered for this type of VFX.

Oh and heres a few more showstoppers (that CAN be fixed without changing the Resolve architecture)
- Limited EXR support (need all channels)
- Broken metadata handling (fusion can't read resolves metadata and resolve can't read fusion metadata)
- No custom frame ranges (all my shots NEED to start at x1001, not some arb. frame number based on cut)

Fusion standalone solves all of these.

To end with a somewhat pedantic analogy,

I need this :
surgical-equipment-500x500.jpg
surgical-equipment-500x500.jpg (17.02 KiB) Viewed 1960 times


Not this :
giant-swiss-army-knife-6181.jpg
giant-swiss-army-knife-6181.jpg (64.24 KiB) Viewed 1960 times


-t
Last edited by Theodor Groeneboom on Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kel Philm

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 8:32 pm

I really, really hope someone from BM has read these last 2 posts.
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RCModelReviews

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 10:01 pm

I find it interesting that BMD seems to be shifting away from the "power user" and trying to deliver a more lightweight (Swiss army-knife) tool that may appeal to a wider audience (by integrating *some* of Fusion into Resolve).

I find it interesting because in the Resolve forum, quite a few people got their panties in a bunch when some of the more "lightweight" users (including myself) suggested that it would be nice to have the option of a fullscreen display on a second or third monitor. This was pooh-pooh'd by those who want to keep Resolve a "professional-level" tool for "serious" users.
Still using Resolve 14 until 15 is sorted, Fusion 9 Studio
CPU: i7 8700, OS: Windows 10 (1709), GPU: GTX1060/6
I'm refugee from Sony Vegas slicing video for my YouTube channels.
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 11:17 pm

Chris Wells wrote:These are two separate markets, Post houses vs VFX houses.


WARNING - Some feathers are about to get ruffled!


I think BMD is smart enough to know that they never had the VFX houses that you mention. I have spoken to several "Fusion guys" who have confessed (off the record) that when push comes to shove, their mission critical work is done in Nuke.

Blackmagic has a nice Fusion splash page featuring posters from some pretty hefty blockbusters, but I would like to know exactly to what extent Fusion was used on these films in comparison to Nuke.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a bigly Blackmagic fan, and I like the fact that Fusion exists as a standalone...but let's be real -- the main advantage that Fusion has over Nuke is that it's $300 vs. $8500.

The point that I'm trying to make with all of this is that I think BMD is playing the smart game here. They're going after the Adobe/AE/VideoCoPilot crowd -- the guys who are mainly looking to add muzzle flashes and do some green screen compositing for their $1M range indie movies. Blackmagic is absolutely right to do so because they can actually win over that crowd -- and it is a far larger market than the handful of VFX houses who actually get to work on Marvel movies.

I totally understand that this is quite disappointing to some of you, but be honest -- deep down you could see it coming the moment BMD bought Eyeon.
Last edited by Kays Alatrakchi on Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
>>Kays Alatrakchi
www.mbkproductions.com
Director, Colorist, Composer (not necessarily in that order).
Resolve 14.2, Mac OS X 10.12.5 (Sierra), i7 6700k, 32Gb DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080, Decklink Mini Monitor.
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Kel Philm

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 12:30 am

And I really hope that no one from BM reads the above post...
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Jiri Mravec

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 1:49 am

Hi All
I agree with Theodor Groeneboom precise description of the VFX pipeline and precisely why Resolve cant be used for VFX. Need for independent loaders - savers, missing EXR multichannel comp and many other limitation....Without this Resolve cant be used for VFX. Lets not forget that fusion was created for VFX so by limiting it in this way its looses its purpose of existence. Of course some editors can "Little spice up" their project with some simple coping, thats cool. But all the VFX heavy production is gone. Most of the Pro guys at steakunderwater have same view. If Fusion stand alone will disappear it will be very sad. I hope not. Lets not repeat the story of Softimage :cry:
Best regards
https://vimeo.com/cirquegaruda
http://cirquegaruda.cz
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Skye Williamson

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 2:13 am

I posted earlier but was buried several posts up waiting for mod approval, but these latter posts are starting to answer my questions as far as differences between standalone and Resolve. Think I'll stick with learning Fusion within Resolve for now as that *appears* the way they're going forward and reassess if they update Fusion standalone make it seem they'll continue to do so. :)
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Markus Cermak

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 6:24 am

+1 on Chris Wells and Theodor Groeneboom Posts

Thats exactly whats not been talked about in most discussions here.
It´s not about feature complete implementation its about a workflow forced on us that's just not practical.

And no it´s not just big VFX houses working on Marvel movies.
We are a super small house where I handle 3d and VFX compositing alone.
And I get daily new tasks which are just not practical to work the way resolve wants me to work.
And are way quicker and flexible in Fusion standalone.

So BMD would have had the change to get into 2 markets instead focusing on 1, small or not doesn't matter because they already had the tool for one of them.
So getting Resolve Fusion and a powerful Fusion standalone would bring them more then just one of them.
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Igor Riđanović

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 9:26 pm

Markus Cermak wrote:Since the EOL of Avid DS there are ppl looking for a similar kind of replacement and BMD could have stepped in.


But I think they did. Resolve 15 is where some twelve years ago we had hoped Avid DS would evolve.

I totally understand the pain of the VFX community. For picture finishing though, this marriage of Resolve and Fusion could seriously erode the Flame's market share.
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Chris Wells

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 10:18 pm

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:WARNING - Some feathers are about to get ruffled!


I don't disagree, However BMD isn't being honest/clear with their VFX user base. If they come out and say, we have no interest in fusion 10 standalone, then we can all move on with our lives. Them saying you can continue to download standalone, is weak at best. Living behind the silence just kills your user base.

As for Fusion standalone being competitive in the high end. IT IS! It's only been in the last couple of years that I looked at the nuke feature set and said, "yeah a couple of those would be nice" for the 10 years before that every release I said, "wait they didn't already have that feature, fusion has had that since v4" It wouldn't take much to make grounds in the VFX house world. a Linux build was a good start! Their biggest problem is they haven't treated their VFX user base well, they have lost a lot of trust, and actions speak louder than words. They spent a very long time getting cross platform, when they finally released new features, it was so buggy, and for some, myself included 9 still is unuseable.

We are a fusion studio, and have had many people ask us about fusion, they use nuke and wish there was another option. Nuke is good sure, But so is fusion, I would argue fusion is better in many ways.
I believe there is still a business to be had there, clearly at one point BMD did as well. Is post house money more, I would imagine so. But VFX guys are used to paying money. Why not develop it and make that money?
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Alaz Soytemiz

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 11:45 pm

What about non VFX parts of Resolve? Are there better standalone editing-sound-grading tools?



Tapatalk kullanarak iPhone aracılığıyla gönderildi
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Abdelrahman Magdy

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 12:23 am

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:I have spoken to several "Fusion guys" who have confessed (off the record) that when push comes to shove, their mission critical work is done in Nuke.

Blackmagic has a nice Fusion splash page featuring posters from some pretty hefty blockbusters, but I would like to know exactly to what extent Fusion was used on these films in comparison to Nuke.

That is basically putting the cart in front of the horse.

I don't have much experience with compositing as I am still studying to be a compositor. However, my tutor who has been working in the industry for years using Nuke, has started noticing Fusion when BMD acquired it, and was predicting that, if BMD continues developing it, Fusion can take a bite of Nuke's market share.

I think there are two main reasons why that hasn't happened yet:
1) As Chris Wells explained in his last post, Nuke pulled ahead a little bit in terms of feature set in the last couple of years, which was basically a transitional period for Fusion. And as he said as well, there are still things that Fusion does better.

To get Fusion to really compete, you need to develop its features. Consider what BMD has done since acquiring Fusion. Their main achievement, IMHO, was porting it to MacOS and Linux. That is definitely huge, but it doesn't improve Fusion's features. For VFX artists and companies, they need tools that do the job, so it makes since that some of them will fall back to Nuke since it has some features that Fusion doesn't have.

This is why I said you are putting the cart in front of the horse. You cannot say that BMD should focus on the post house market because Nuke is used more in the VFX world, when BMD hasn't improved Fusion to a point that justifies the switch from Nuke to Fusion. This leads me to the second reason.

2) It is basically all about workflows and pipelines. Most VFX studios has already-established pipelines that they very minimally tweak. This means that the adoption rate for any new software will be slower in the VFX market, and the larger the company, the truer this is.

So, if a software company like BMD wants to compete in that market they have to have the patience and keep working until they reach the point where some companies start adopting the software.

Of course, no one denies that Resolve with Fusion in it could really take over the post-house market. I have personally been predicting this for a while even before Fusion was integrated in Resolve.

But why should it be either or. These two markets are not exclusive. You can continue developing Fusion as a standalone product for the VFX companies and improve the integration of Fusion in Resolve for the post house market that doesn't need a complex compositing tool.
System specs:
Resolve Studio version: 15.0.0.086
Fusion Studio version: 9.0.2
OS: CentOS 7
CPU: Intel i7-4790k 4GHz Quad-Core
RAM: 32GB
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 1:07 am

Chris Wells wrote:I don't disagree, However BMD isn't being honest/clear with their VFX user base. If they come out and say, we have no interest in fusion 10 standalone, then we can all move on with our lives.


I don't know what benefit they would gain from doing so, but their actions (particularly this past year) speak pretty loud and clear IMHO. Since Fusion's last small maintenance update last December, there have been a total of 11 Resolve updates (counting both 14 and 15 beta). I think that sends a pretty clear message as to where BMD is concentrating their efforts. To not see that Fusion's future is within Resolve, particularly after Siggraph has come and gone, seems a bit like living in denial to me.


Chris Wells wrote:Nuke is good sure, But so is fusion, I would argue fusion is better in many ways.


How so? I'm not being facetious here, I am genuinely curious.



They way I see it, for Fusion standalone to start eating into Nuke's user base BMD needs at least the following:

1. An aggressive marketing/sales presence at the trade shows and online.

2. Frequent updates for both maintenance and which add new features.

3. Extensive 3rd party support, particularly for 3rd party render engines.

4. A pretty substantial YouTube and Vimeo tutorial presence.

5. Last but not least, a killer app. Fusion needs to have a key functionality that out-performs the competition making it impossible to ignore.


I would argue that Resolve 15 has all 5 of these elements. Fusion Studio…hmmm...
>>Kays Alatrakchi
www.mbkproductions.com
Director, Colorist, Composer (not necessarily in that order).
Resolve 14.2, Mac OS X 10.12.5 (Sierra), i7 6700k, 32Gb DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080, Decklink Mini Monitor.
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Skye Williamson

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 1:50 am

For what it's worth, I replied to my support thread and told them they should have product managers read this thread. :)

Thank you so much for the feedback and we truly appreciate you sharing the forum link for us to look at.
We always do our best to listen to our users and make our decisions based on their requests.
Again, we truly appreciate you sharing your feedback and I will definitely forward this link to our upper management
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RCModelReviews

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 3:00 am

I'm wondering if by placing a subset of Fusion into Resolve, BMD is effectively using that as a marketing tool for the full Fusion?

Those who buy Resolve and start to use parts of Fusion may be far more inclined to then adopt the full version as their compositing software -- so as to avoid having to learn yet another piece of software.
Still using Resolve 14 until 15 is sorted, Fusion 9 Studio
CPU: i7 8700, OS: Windows 10 (1709), GPU: GTX1060/6
I'm refugee from Sony Vegas slicing video for my YouTube channels.
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 4:07 am

RCModelReviews wrote:I'm wondering if by placing a subset of Fusion into Resolve, BMD is effectively using that as a marketing tool for the full Fusion?

Those who buy Resolve and start to use parts of Fusion may be far more inclined to then adopt the full version as their compositing software -- so as to avoid having to learn yet another piece of software.


But why would they then make the interchange impossible?
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com
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Chris Wells

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 5:35 pm

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:I don't know what benefit they would gain from doing so, but their actions (particularly this past year) speak pretty loud and clear IMHO. Since Fusion's last small maintenance update last December, there have been a total of 11 Resolve updates (counting both 14 and 15 beta). I think that sends a pretty clear message as to where BMD is concentrating their efforts. To not see that Fusion's future is within Resolve, particularly after Siggraph has come and gone, seems a bit like living in denial to me.


Benefit to BMD of telling us they are dropping standalone fusion, none. It would just be a decent thing to do. Many of us, either VFX artists or plugin developers, have invested heavily in fusion over the years, and are trying to decided do we move on or keep wasting our time. I personally have been using fusion for 15 years, I have an extensive skill set with it. I have written several scripts that make it work insanely well. I need to be very clear all hope is lost before moving on. That being said, I think all hope is lost.

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:How so? I'm not being facetious here, I am genuinely curious.


I don't want this to be a Nuke vs Fusion thread, there are plenty of those, I readily accept a lot of what I don't like about nuke is it's not fusion. Nuke holds a unique spot in my life, in that I have never tried to like software as much as Nuke and hated it as much as I have and even then because of BMD, currently I am looking at purchasing nukeX. Again if there was any hope of Fusion standalone continuing I wouldn't do so. But we both agree there isn't.

So what is better in Fusion. Well you have to get nukeX to have similar features. so 8k off that bat makes one sad. Nuke is shake like, in that it breaks down tasks to unique nodes, So everything you do takes 3x more nodes. There are workflows built around navigating crazy big trees, because they always get so big, Fusion consolidates intelligently, so you can get the job done in less nodes. And yet nuke hides multi-channel stuff. Some really like this workflow, I don't, I like seeing what's going where. and with Python, "see my youtube video on this" I think fusion's multichannel workflow is better.

I have a tool bar with many many nodes in fusion, so with one click I can add nodes, 95% of the nodes I need are a single click away. in nuke several clicks. Just slower. on average 3x more clicks to do any task.

Color correcting, I feel like I"m coloring in the 90's when I color stuff in Nuke, not only is it missing color tools, it takes like 6 nodes to equal fusions color corrector node.

fusion is resolution independent, based off of percentages of screen, not pixels, means I can comp in HD and if client decided they want 4k I don't have to redo things as much. Nuke is not.

I actually use fusions volumes from wpp data, that's not possible in nuke, even doing masks last I checked required plugins, not native.

custom tool, multiple inputs, super useful, I haven't found an equivalent in nuke, there's an expression node, with an input. But I build stuff all the time and the custom tool just lets you throw down the math of what you need to do and how you combine multiple inputs.

there's more but those are probably the biggest things I'll miss, I'm getting angry just realizing that I soon will be using nuke, Any way, in my opinion the only features in nuke that I want are deep compositing. don't know if it's a real workflow saver, but I think it could be helpful. I wanted that paint using vectors to stick to an object that nuke has, but then made it myself in fusion in an afternoon.

So in summary, Fusion is very capable for high end compositing. In many ways I find it better. Fusion didn't lose to nuke because nuke was better, fusion lost to nuke because the foundry was better at business. Shake died, and the foundry jumped in that door, strategically got where it needed to be. It also had a linux version so fusion wasn't even an option back then for big studios. Scripting is easier in Nuke, so that also helped with adoption. If BMD cared they could make a competitive product. They actually already have it. Sure give away a free version, but raise the price of studio standalone, and put some development resources behind it. It doesn't have to die and is actually very competitive.
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 6:33 pm

Thanks for explaining, good to know.

For what it's worth (I don't want to keep beating a dead horse here), I would encourage you and many others who obviously feel very strongly about using Fusion to keep an open mind about its integration within Resolve.

While standalone might be EoL for Blackmagic, I think Resolve 15 is alive and well and I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people are working on updates even as we argue back and forth here. Fusion within Resolve is only going to get faster and more capable…and it's going to happen more quickly than many of us realize.

I really don't understand why the everything-under-one-app is a bad thing. If you don't like the other components, simply ignore them and treat Resolve 15 the same way that you would treat Fusion — go in, get what you need done, and get out. There is a general sense that more functionality = code bloat, but that is not necessarily true. For instance, color grading in Resolve was not negatively impacted the moment that the other modules were added.

I find far too many veterans in the industry to be very rigid in their ways, and looking at change always in a negative light. This is true for the hardcore users in many apps out there. I really don't understand the resistance to change, or the reluctance to realize that the industry and workflow are in constant state of evolution.

What I do understand is that some of these changes mean that job security is threatened and I feel for you; but that is inevitable. Sooner or later we're all under threat of becoming obsolete — it is up to us to re-invent ourselves and adapt to the changes, rather than dig our heels in and complain.

I think Resolve 15 will be good for guys like you, like it will be for guys like me. Just give it some time to grow into the bad mofo that BMD is trying to make it into.
>>Kays Alatrakchi
www.mbkproductions.com
Director, Colorist, Composer (not necessarily in that order).
Resolve 14.2, Mac OS X 10.12.5 (Sierra), i7 6700k, 32Gb DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080, Decklink Mini Monitor.
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David Mathis

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 7:35 pm

I will have to go through the manual again but I do recall seeing something that says the standalone version will still be in development and that the UI will be upgraded. Perhaps the Blackmagic team was focusing on adding a Fusion and Fairlight page into Resolve which might explain why standalone did not get an update. After all, there was a total of 8 beta versions before the first non beta version was released two weeks ago. There has been some mention that there could be an announcement at IBC which is just around the corner. We should have a much clearer picture by then. Right now no specific announcement has been made so far now it is wait and see. The thought of having to add Nuke into the pipeline is not something most of us want to do.
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Kel Philm

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 8:26 pm

For what it's worth (I don't want to keep beating a dead horse here), I would encourage you and many others who obviously feel very strongly about using Fusion to keep an open mind about its integration within Resolve.


Kays, its more than clear that Fusion into Resolve works for you, as pointed out in the survey 95% disagree with you. There have been some very clear arguments against by some very knowledgable people who use Fusion on a daily basis for some very high end work, these are not some old crones who are stuck in their ways, they are power users who rely on Fusion to get the job done well and done fast. They realish anything that will make their job easier or more fulfilling, and are not spooked by change. Just out of interest, are you a fulltime compositor/vfx artist?
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 8:35 pm

Kel,

In that case, it appears that unless Blackmagic unveils a surprise at IBC in a couple of weeks, things aren't looking particularly good for 95% of you.


P.S.
I'm not a full time compositor/vfx artist. I'm a filmmaker with compositing/vfx skills among other things.

P.P.S.

Fusion doesn't quite work for me…yet. I'm still reliant on AfterEffects when push comes to shove. I just happen to believe that it will get there eventually.
>>Kays Alatrakchi
www.mbkproductions.com
Director, Colorist, Composer (not necessarily in that order).
Resolve 14.2, Mac OS X 10.12.5 (Sierra), i7 6700k, 32Gb DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080, Decklink Mini Monitor.
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Chris Wells

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 8:57 pm

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:(I don't want to keep beating a dead horse here)


Then stop using the same arguments, you're going to have to come up with a new counter, your argument boiled down is what? "trust them, it's going to be awesome, it's the future." It will be awesome for you and all the other post houses. Will they take some of the VFX work, sure.. Fundamentally trust them doesn't work. I'm willing to learn new software, like I said, Currently I'm planning on going to nuke, some years ago I dropped the 3d package I have used for over 20 years and learned Houdini. Never looked back, Houdini is amazing and the future.

Theodor explained why davinci Fusion is not a good fit. So instead of saying get with the times. Maybe just recognize you don't understand VFX houses or their needs. If you do understand us, come up with a rebuttal on that. Funny enough we just tried to use resolve fusion on a music video. The lead artist thought it seemed like an ideal candidate to try it on, reasonable amount of VFX work. all pretty straight forward shots.... It didn't go well.

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:I really don't understand why the everything-under-one-app is a bad thing

this is true. Please re read Theodor post and come up with rebuttals for each of the things he addressed. If you find, you don't really get what he's talking about, than maybe have the humility to say you don't understand VFX needs.

This is just going to continue to go in circles, The summary is this. VFX guys are against killing fusion standalone, the overwhelming majority, 95%
https://www.steakunderwater.com/wesuckl ... =16&t=2385
They have real concerns that haven't been addressed in davinci.

Post houses are very excited and don't do enough VFX to get why it's a bad idea, and nothing anyone can say will change either persons mind. The great part is, you guys won't get it. You won't ever do big enough shows, or complicated enough shows that it breaks davinci, If you do, well good luck. BMD, who knows what's going on over there. But they can't be bothered to step in and shed some light on the situation. So here's the future, people argue back and forth, think the other person just doesn't understand. BMD keeps working on davinci. VFX artists slowly drop away. Editors and colorists do some VFX shots and don't get why VFX artists don't use davinci.
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 9:13 pm

Chris, enjoy Nuke! 8-)
>>Kays Alatrakchi
www.mbkproductions.com
Director, Colorist, Composer (not necessarily in that order).
Resolve 14.2, Mac OS X 10.12.5 (Sierra), i7 6700k, 32Gb DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080, Decklink Mini Monitor.
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Chris Wells

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 9:27 pm

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:Chris, enjoy Nuke! 8-)

Thanks Kays, enjoy AfterEffects, ;)
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Jiri Mravec

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Re: Fusion 10 is coming or not ?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 10:42 pm

I have to agree, Fusion in Resolve it nice for small things but it really kills the software power for VFX. One can only understand this by doing heavy VFX work, otherwise there is nothing to talk about. I don't think that the discussion here is about some software attachment or rigidity. For professional compositor - vfx artist there is only one question. Is the tool that I am using capable for doing the job ? In a effective way ?

Limiting the Fusion functions in resolve is like buying Ferrari to drive shopping to the next block. I don't understand why BM don't listen to users that are professionals in this field (they don't care ?). There are many discussions on steakunderwater and here.

In this thread was also discussed why not more studios use Fusion. With tight deadline you need tool that you can relay on. Unfortunately fusion become quite buggy and there was not much updates - fixes - love from developers. I personally have always some problems (open cl (when off some tools don't work without it... )) Also the fact that BM refuses to talk about its intentions creates heavy situation for the users. I understand that the company have some inner politics. But as a artist - studio you have to have clear idea about the tool that you are using and its future (pipeline integration) on heavy projects. Many professionals here already talking about switching to Nuke. 8300 € is heavy price that many cant afford. Another option is Natron open source Nuke copy (lot of stuff missing). It fortunately do have 3D space - particles. But maybe if Fusion dies more people will join their effort and develop it further like Blender. People for people. Love to all of you !!!
Last edited by Jiri Mravec on Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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