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fusion 9 Delta Keyer > issue with clean plate

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Luca Di Gioacchino

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fusion 9 Delta Keyer > issue with clean plate

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 1:45 am

Hi,
Has anyone had problems using the delta keyer/clean plate combo to key out blue screen? It only seems to work with green screen footage. I am using Fusion 9 (free version).
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Nicolas Guillou

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Re: fusion 9 Delta Keyer > issue with clean plate

PostThu Jul 25, 2019 6:16 pm

Hello,
I have the same issue with Fusion 16 6b and 7b.
Have you find a solution ?
Have a good day :)
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Re: fusion 9 Delta Keyer > issue with clean plate

PostThu Sep 24, 2020 7:04 pm

has anyone found a solution to this?
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Sam Steti

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Re: fusion 9 Delta Keyer > issue with clean plate

PostFri Sep 25, 2020 6:50 am

Hey,
To find a solution, a very specific issue should be defined previously ihmo...
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Re: fusion 9 Delta Keyer > issue with clean plate

PostFri Sep 25, 2020 9:07 am

Based on my testing, I think that the DeltaKeyer is working with CleanPlate on blue-screen keys. However, it requires an extra step compared to green-screen keying: you must also pick the Background Color in the DK node, choosing the blue background. Then it will key out the blue, and having the CleanPlate connected will improve the quality of the key.

First, here's a demonstration of the issue I think the OP is talking about. In the comp pasted below I generated these two example images:
Image

I then passed each image to a CleanPlate node, used the colour picker to pick the background colour, eroded it a bit, then filled it. Then I passed the image to a DeltaKeyer, and the CleanPlate to the DK's CleanPlate input.

This is the result:
Image

The green-screen background has been keyed out by the CleanPlate. The blue-screen background has not.

Code: Select all
{
   Tools = ordered() {
      DeltaKeyer1_1 = DeltaKeyer {
         CtrlWZoom = false,
         Inputs = {
            TuningRanges = Input {
               Value = ColorCurves {
                  Curves = {
                     {
                        Points = {
                           { 0, 1 },
                           { 0.4, 0.2 },
                           { 0.6, 0 },
                           { 1, 0 }
                        }
                     },
                     {
                        Points = {
                           { 0, 0 },
                           { 0.4, 0 },
                           { 0.6, 0.2 },
                           { 1, 1 }
                        }
                     }
                  }
               },
            },
            Clean = Input {
               SourceOp = "CleanPlate1_1",
               Source = "Output",
            },
            Input = Input {
               SourceOp = "Merge1_1",
               Source = "Output",
            },
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 508.667, 705.546 } },
      },
      CleanPlate1_1 = CleanPLate {
         Inputs = {
            BackgroundRed = Input { Value = 0, },
            BackgroundGreen = Input { Value = 1, },
            BackgroundBlue = Input { Value = 0.159912109375, },
            Erode = Input { Value = 0.00204, },
            GrowEdges = Input { Value = 0.2, },
            Input = Input {
               SourceOp = "Merge1_1",
               Source = "Output",
            },
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 508.667, 640.364 } },
      },
      Background1_1_1 = Background {
         Inputs = {
            EffectMask = Input {
               SourceOp = "Ellipse1_1",
               Source = "Mask",
            },
            Width = Input { Value = 1920, },
            Height = Input { Value = 1080, },
            ["Gamut.SLogVersion"] = Input { Value = FuID { "SLog2" }, },
            TopLeftRed = Input { Value = 1, },
            TopLeftGreen = Input { Value = 0.0479999999999999, },
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 368, 593.425 } },
      },
      Merge1_1 = Merge {
         Inputs = {
            Background = Input {
               SourceOp = "Background1_2",
               Source = "Output",
            },
            Foreground = Input {
               SourceOp = "Background1_1_1",
               Source = "Output",
            },
            PerformDepthMerge = Input { Value = 0, },
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 368, 640.364 } },
      },
      Ellipse1_1 = EllipseMask {
         Inputs = {
            Filter = Input { Value = FuID { "Fast Gaussian" }, },
            MaskWidth = Input { Value = 1920, },
            MaskHeight = Input { Value = 1080, },
            PixelAspect = Input { Value = { 1, 1 }, },
            ClippingMode = Input { Value = FuID { "None" }, },
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 368, 560.425 } },
      },
      DeltaKeyer1 = DeltaKeyer {
         Inputs = {
            TuningRanges = Input {
               Value = ColorCurves {
                  Curves = {
                     {
                        Points = {
                           { 0, 1 },
                           { 0.4, 0.2 },
                           { 0.6, 0 },
                           { 1, 0 }
                        }
                     },
                     {
                        Points = {
                           { 0, 0 },
                           { 0.4, 0 },
                           { 0.6, 0.2 },
                           { 1, 1 }
                        }
                     }
                  }
               },
            },
            Clean = Input {
               SourceOp = "CleanPlate1",
               Source = "Output",
            },
            Input = Input {
               SourceOp = "Merge1",
               Source = "Output",
            },
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 502.667, 531.606 } },
      },
      Background1_2 = Background {
         Inputs = {
            Width = Input { Value = 1920, },
            Height = Input { Value = 1080, },
            ["Gamut.SLogVersion"] = Input { Value = FuID { "SLog2" }, },
            TopLeftGreen = Input { Value = 1, },
            TopLeftBlue = Input { Value = 0.16, },
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 258, 640.364 } },
      },
      Merge1 = Merge {
         Inputs = {
            Background = Input {
               SourceOp = "Background1",
               Source = "Output",
            },
            Foreground = Input {
               SourceOp = "Background1_1",
               Source = "Output",
            },
            PerformDepthMerge = Input { Value = 0, },
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 362, 466.424 } },
      },
      Background1 = Background {
         Inputs = {
            Width = Input { Value = 1920, },
            Height = Input { Value = 1080, },
            ["Gamut.SLogVersion"] = Input { Value = FuID { "SLog2" }, },
            TopLeftGreen = Input { Value = 0.016, },
            TopLeftBlue = Input { Value = 1, },
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 252.667, 466.424 } },
      },
      CleanPlate1 = CleanPLate {
         Inputs = {
            BackgroundRed = Input { Value = 0, },
            BackgroundGreen = Input { Value = 0.0159912109375, },
            BackgroundBlue = Input { Value = 1, },
            Erode = Input { Value = 0.00152, },
            GrowEdges = Input { Value = 0.2, },
            Input = Input {
               SourceOp = "Merge1",
               Source = "Output",
            },
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 502.667, 466.424 } },
      },
      Background1_1 = Background {
         Inputs = {
            Width = Input { Value = 1920, },
            Height = Input { Value = 1080, },
            ["Gamut.SLogVersion"] = Input { Value = FuID { "SLog2" }, },
            TopLeftRed = Input { Value = 1, },
            TopLeftGreen = Input { Value = 0.0479999999999999, },
            EffectMask = Input {
               SourceOp = "Ellipse1",
               Source = "Mask",
            }
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 362, 419.485 } },
      },
      Ellipse1 = EllipseMask {
         Inputs = {
            Filter = Input { Value = FuID { "Fast Gaussian" }, },
            MaskWidth = Input { Value = 1920, },
            MaskHeight = Input { Value = 1080, },
            PixelAspect = Input { Value = { 1, 1 }, },
            ClippingMode = Input { Value = FuID { "None" }, },
         },
         ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 362, 386.485 } },
      }
   }
}
However, if you now use the Background Color selector in the DeltaKeyer, it will key out the blue. So the question is, is the CleanPlate making any difference?

I tried a real-life example, using a random blue-screen image I found on the net. I configured the CleanPlate and passed it to the DK, then also used the colour picker in the DK to choose the blue Background Color. I then compared the key with and without Clean Plate connected.

Here's an A/B comparison with Gamma raised to 2.0. Left: with CleanPlate; Right: without CleanPlate
Image

The with-CleanPlate key is definitely cleaner than without CleanPlate.

So could the issue be that the DK assumes green screen with a CleanPlate input, and therefore does nothing until it is told to key on blue? But then when a blue key is chosen, it does then use the CleanPlate as normal?

It would be interesting to see a real-life example of using the DK on blue-screen footage, and comparing the key quality with and without the CleanPlate connected. I think you will find there is some improvement with CleanPlate.
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Sam Steti

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Re: fusion 9 Delta Keyer > issue with clean plate

PostFri Sep 25, 2020 10:47 am

Hey,

As a reminder, let's write about the ideal situation of a key project.
The clean plate is indeed very handy and efficient, and the most idealistic case is a real world image of the set without anything added in the first place (talents, objects, furniture, WSE...).

Though I've been into this for so many years now, I confess I forgot sometimes to grab one for some different reasons (change of mind, additions to the scene), and it cannot always be done after the main shootings : this is where the cleanplate node tweaks enters (with filling and grow edges)...

That said, I never work with blue ones, but imho the first thing to check in the CP node is what happens by default, with Fill unticked and Grow Edges down... Then maybe make a test with a mask piped into the CP node, where only pure blue appears inside the polygon of course.
Since there's no particular reason the couple doesn't work great with blue, in any case you want to test test the picking of the color in the CP node only first : now if the DK still doesn't understand that blue is to be taken into account while the CP is correctly set then yes, the DK would assume green by default (but picking blue again in the DK node solves it all anyway).
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Sander de Regt

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Re: fusion 9 Delta Keyer > issue with clean plate

PostFri Sep 25, 2020 12:04 pm

The clean plate is indeed very handy and efficient, and the most idealistic case is a real world image of the set without anything added in the first place (talents, objects, furniture, WSE...).

Unless I'm mistaken that is not what is meant with a cleanplate in this context. In this context it means: a shot of the blue/greenscreen without any actors in it, so that the keyer can use this info to create a more or less 'default' situation from which to work, so that a shadow will be keyed semitransparent because the keyer realizes that the slight gradient in the screen is not part of the shadow. At least this is how I always understood it.

Your definition of a clean plate is what you really want if you know that there will be some painting in your VFX future. :lol:
Sander de Regt

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Sam Steti

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Re: fusion 9 Delta Keyer > issue with clean plate

PostFri Sep 25, 2020 1:13 pm

:) The keyer knows where its job is to be done...
But show it what to wipe out and it won't wipe out more than what it should (not only the actors). Paint later if you like, this has nothing to do with the information that the cleanplate carries to the DK
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Sam Steti

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Re: fusion 9 Delta Keyer > issue with clean plate

PostFri Sep 25, 2020 1:39 pm

I mean : what the clean plate node does by "filling" and "growing edges" can be done better yourself with an empty shot or still of the set.
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