Frame by Frame tracking

Hi all,

I think I've gotten this to work a few times but I cannot figure out the exact sequence...I do a lot of drawing windows and frame by frame tracking...The problem comes in when I try to grab a specific point on the window I've drawn and move it...It seems to usually switch my mouse click to the Insert feature of the tracker...It allows me to delete points on the shape but not move them...Currently I'm:

Draw Window
Go to tracker and click interactive
Click Frame
and then try to adjust the window and the specific points on the window...

The manual seems very weak in this department...

thanks,

jb

Don't forget to click on the Insert Keyframe button.

Hey Marc,

Thanks for the reply...I've tried that a few times this morning...The more I play with this I'm wondering if it's not possible to do what I'm attempting...Im hoping I'm wrong...I want to be able to draw a window and manipulate the individual points on that window as I track...for example, a very tight window on someone's hat, and they turn, I want to be able to change, not only size/aspect etc, but the actual shape of the window, frame by frame by manipulating individual points on my drawn window....I thought i've done this before...?

Thanks again,

jb

Hey Marc,

Thanks for the reply...I've tried that a few times this morning...The more I play with this I'm wondering if it's not possible to do what I'm attempting...Im hoping I'm wrong...I want to be able to draw a window and manipulate the individual points on that window as I track...for example, a very tight window on someone's hat, and they turn, I want to be able to change, not only size/aspect etc, but the actual shape of the window, frame by frame by manipulating individual points on my drawn window....I thought i've done this before...?

Thanks again,

jb

You will need a rotoscoping software and create an external map... I find resolve too clunky for very precise rotoscoping...

Hi Walter,

So it's not possible to do what I'm attempting within the existing software? I don't mind clunky, I just don't seem to be figure out how to do it...

Thanks again,

jb

Hi Walter,

So it's not possible to do what I'm attempting within the existing software? I don't mind clunky, I just don't seem to be figure out how to do it...

Thanks again,

jb

I do not think it is possible unless you go whole by hand... I will say if you cannot get away with sloppy mask+key+blur, do it on another software and import an alpha...

One think to keep in mind, is that I'm on a time clock for the client: even IF it is possible, for me spending 10+ minutes to do a precise matte (and repeat for the next 10 shots) is a waste of client money when another operator can make the rotoscoping on a less expensive room and give me the matte...

So i always try to gauge how much time it takes: is the fast and sloppy attempt does not work, off it goes somewhere else and we keep coloring.

I'f I'm by myself... well that is another pair of pants...

Yeah, it's strange...As soon as I go into interactive it will allow me to add and remove points on the shape but when I try to grab one and shift it always brings up the box for adding/removing tracking points...Possible bug? Or is this working correctly? I mean, why would you be limited to adding and removing points on a drawn shape but not be able to manipulate the points? While not in interactive mode it allows me to move the points but it doesn't track frame to frame...

thanks,

jb

Thanks for the reply...I've tried that a few times this morning...The more I play with this I'm wondering if it's not possible to do what I'm attempting...Im hoping I'm wrong...I want to be able to draw a window and manipulate the individual points on that window as I track...

For that, you have to do it in the PTZR keyframe window, not the tracker window. As far as I know, that's the only way to change the individual points. Sometimes the only way to do a very complex tracking job is to use a combination of tracking and keyframes.

It does help to do the color keyframing with only the specific node isolated in the window, just to make it more visible.

Hi John,

Marc is right, you need a combination of key frames and tracking - I'm currently practicing this technique (someone coming from off screen then walking away from the camera, highlighting just their jacket). I first put static keyframes and shaped the window manually as the guy comes fully into shot (each frame) then tracked for the rest of the shot.

It can be incredibly time consuming as Walter pointed out though as you have to tweak the window every frame or so as the the shape of the jacket constantly moves.

For me this is just skill building, but it does seem to work and may be an option if the shape of your window doesn't need too much adjustment.

I found this video tutorial a good intro to keyframes as well.

Thanks guys...That's not horribly painful...seems like it could be moved to the tracker panel...Still strange that it allows you to add and delete points of a window in the tracker panel, but they won't track a move...But I do appreciate the info...this fills a void in my knowledge...I'll use this feature...

Thanks again!

jb

Usually tracking will do it alone, but there are limitations as to what it can do -- especially when the shape changes in some way -- and you need to help it along with the keyframer. Manual tracking can help, too, but not with radical shape changes. I usually get maybe 3 or 4 of those per feature, so that's not bad, out of thousands of events. Takes 5 minutes to do.

I think it's clear that you need tracking and keyframes. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do, but remember you can get a colorkey from inside the mask shape. So if the guy has a blue hat and you want it to be a lighter blue, you could pull a key from inside the shape of the hat.

Yes, using a PCW to confine the key and then using the tightly-qualified key as a source, that would absolutely work and wouldn't be as mission critical as a garbage matte. I find the trick is in using holdout mattes to prevent keying too much contamination, like somebody crossing into the shape boundaries or entering behind the subject.

All of this could be done in AE in no time at all. If you know AE at all, I would do it there and export the mask.