SmartScope Duo 4K

Hey guys!

I bought myself a UltraStudio Express and SmartScope Duo 4K. I'm very satisfied with the quality of the scopes, but there are a few things I ask myself:
Is there any chance to add a skin tone line at the vector scopes? I think it's very helpful to correct skin tones using a cropped image.
And I think it would be helpful to add a colored version of the vector scopes, the RGB parade and maybe for the waveform as well.
Is there any chance to get a firmware update that will add these features?

Maybe if you read this and like my ideas or have a another idea: feel free to '+1' or add your own ideas!

Please blackmagic, make this happen!

Cheers,
Cromb

+1, but I think there is a skin line. Did you dig in the menus?

I'd buy one in a second if they would just add a 5X magnify mode to the Vectorscope. So far, Blackmagic has resisted this suggestion.

My joke is, "if this $995 product could only do everything the $30,000 Tektronix scope could do, I'd be satisfied."

BTW, whenever I used to refer to this as the "skintone line," our staff engineers would slap me in the back of the head and remind me it was actually the I Bar line (as in I&Q) in SMPTE color bars. As far as I know, it's only coincidental that it's pretty close to caucasian skintone. Tektronix has an interesting tech paper titled "A Guide to Using Waveform Monitors as Artistic Tools in Color Grading," and it goes into this in detail:

Despite racial color differences in skin tones, the trace of a skin tone will end up very close to the -I line on an SDI/Composite vectorscope graticule (within 10 or 20 degrees). This makes sense because skin tones are slightly reddish, slightly yellowish and the -I line (sometimes called the “flesh tone line”) is between the red and yellow targets on the vectorscope. The top quarter of this line, which runs from about the eleven o’clock position to about the five o’clock position, is widely accepted as the line where skin tones should fall.

I'd buy one in a second if they would just add a 5X magnify mode to the Vectorscope. So far, Blackmagic has resisted this suggestion.[/i]

That is my resistance to buy one for myself....

I'd buy one in a second if they would just add a 5X magnify mode to the Vectorscope. So far, Blackmagic has resisted this suggestion.[/i]

That is my resistance to buy one for myself....

Same goes for me. If they add magnify, I'm buying 2 of them.

Same goes for me. If they add magnify, I'm buying 2 of them.

So that's four sales: one for me, one for Stephen, and two for Walter... if we get the 5X mode. (To be truthful, I'd like a variable gain mode like the hardware vectorscopes, but 1X, 2X, and 5X would shut me up for the most part.

I'm puzzled as to why BMD can't or won't add this feature. I was told at NAB a couple of years ago that the UltraScope couldn't do it because it was hard-coded (!). The Zoom function is not quite what I want -- just 1X-2X-5X like every Tek or Leader scope ever made.

I'd also buy one, if it had magnify, RGB colored parade and 444.

I'd also buy one, if it had magnify, RGB colored parade and 444.

And That is for 5 sales....

Could someone confirm 100% that they do have the I-line / skin-tone line?

Could someone confirm 100% that they do have the I-line / skin-tone line?

Page 13 of the Smarscope Duo 4K manual mentions a "fleshtone line," but the illustration does not show it:

http://images.blackmagicdesign.com/medi ... p_2013.pdf

Note that the so-called fleshtone line is not a fleshtone line; it's actually part of the I/Q signal leftover from the NTSC days. Read Tektronix' "Guide to Using Waveform Monitors as Artistic Tools for Color Grading":

http://www.tek.com/regional-page/guide- ... or-grading

I find you can't always rely on this phantom line as telling you what Caucasian fleshtones should look like, but it's a decent ballpark starting point.

Marc, I asked for 100% confirmation and you're just regurgitating what was already said in the thread. The manual has said that since the beginning, when the fleshtone line was not there. What I'm asking is if someone could confirm 100% that the fleshtone line has been added via a software/firmware update, as in via first-hand use, not just what the manual says.

Also, the manual doesn't explicitly say there is a fleshtone line in the SmartScope's vectorscope or that it can be turned on/off. "... you will want to keep your warm color saturation along a line at approximately 10 o'clock on the vectorscope. This is known as the "fleshtone line" and is based on the color of blood beneath the skin's surface. The fleshtone line is therefore applicable to all skin pigmentations and is the best way to ensure the skin tones of your talent look natural."

So could someone who has a SmartScope Duo 4K with the latest firmware/software please chime in with whether or not there is a fleshtone line in the vectorscope please? I won't buy this if it still doesn't have it, especially since every other scopes has it, including BMD's own software scopes in Resolve.

Please Black Magic!

Please add the I-line / skin-tone line and please add the option to use a colored view mode!
The smartscopes 4k are great, but with these two little things, they're gonna be awesome!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE (guys, help me here!)

+1 i would like to see the 100% circle on the vectorscope too.

Yes, if the vectorscope could be expanded, I'd buy too.

I have the original Smart Scope duo but what is really missing is the center point on the vectorscope so you can see where you are moving your white point.

Did the 3.0.2 software update, released last month, by chance add the I-line/skintone line to the vectorscope?

I can't see no difference at all. No I- or Skintone-line. No colored scopes.
Please Blackmagic, help us!

Is some bm dev listening us?
Please!

I have the original Smart Scope duo but what is really missing is the center point on the vectorscope so you can see where you are moving your white point.

I agree, that would be very handy.

Well, I would have bought 2 of these bad boys if Blackmagic Design had bothered to add the features that every other scopes has and users expect, but they didn't so my money went to Divergent Media instead. I'm enjoying the Scopebox customizability and versatility at a fraction of the price, utilizing a computer and hardware I already had.

so looking for BM to say something thats what we would like to have:

I-line / skin-tone line
100% circle vectorscope grid
center point vectorscope
magnify vectorscope
RGB colored parade

I-line / skin-tone line
100% circle vectorscope grid
center point vectorscope
magnify vectorscope (up to 200 or 300%)
colored RGB parade
colored vectorscope
colored waveform

I'm actually not a fan of colored waveform monitors (or as politically-correct people would say, "waveforms of color"). I prefer the old-school less-distracting white-phosphor displays... although an RGB parade is OK in color.

A few years ago when the Ultrascope first came out, I told a BMD rep, "you know, all we want is a cheap standalone workalike that duplicates every important feature of the Leader LV7770 or a comparable Tektronix, for $500." (The LV7770 is $8500.) Having overlays, expandable preset settings, and stuff like that is very basic stuff. They were not receptive to the idea; I suspect they had not used competing products before.

Don't like rgb parade color neither but i think what we ask to improve on the scopes isn't so dificult to achive... Is like a new grid for the vectorscope and some programation lines to magnify... I guess...

A checkbox for colored scopes should work.
Obviously, nothing happened last month...

You can send a request mail on the support tab, that what i did and the y replie me sending my request to dev team. So maybe more mails will get us the update we want.

I would buy too if they added the above and also saturation percentage rings on the vector scope.

i have smart duo and i am very surprised that vectorscope does not have any Skin tone line. Even it has no reference lines (circle, cross etc)

is it possible to solve this problem with software upgrade?

I graded two MoW's on the Duo, and thought ti was waaaayyyyyyyyy to bright, i like my scopes sitting underneath the mon, but wowzers was that ever distracting....

Just for fun i set the Dolby to flat out, so about 600nit, and that was about where the scopes brightittidity became a non-issue

I'd throw some ND on a sheet of plexi in front of it if i had to use it again... it lives happily in the machine room where overheads are on all the time, and seem just fine in that enviroment

There's no way to turn it down, or there was no way when i tried it, there may be a software upgrade since?

I have the same gripe with my smart view - seems crazy that a dedicated unit is less useful (specifically the Vectorscope that doesn't have a skin tone line/central cross hairs/2x zoom for 50% saturation charts) than the scopes that come with the free version of resolve (which has all of these things). I emailed black magic who seemed pretty uninterested:

"These features are often requested by us of the scopes and so our development team are aware of the demand for such features, however I am sorry to say I could not say when or if such features would be implemented at this time."

Seems such a shame that what would otherwise be a great tool and very well priced is hindered by not having what would be a very simple upgrade.

(Also the colour RGB scopes is a no brainer!)

Some software updates to the Smartscope Duo 4K would be very much appreciated by me too. I'm considering moving to a more expensive solution with recording and LUT's built in like the new PIX_E5.

If the Smartscope could get a false colour mode - with full gradient and regions options, colours for the colour channels in RGB parade, options to set the input signal range - full or video legal, options to change the labelling and scale, pixel and line measurements, then I might stick with them.

False colour would be top of my list as it is very handy and totally missing rather than a refinement of existing features..

I guess it's not see easy to code as it runs on custom hardware as a firmware but a bit of investment here from BMD would make this product much more respectable. The measurement sample rate shows the hardware platform is very capable...

I reiterate my wish list.

1) the i/q cross line
2) the ability to zoom the befriending vectorscope 5x
3) the ability to substitute the picture with a second waveform (if i cannot do it already) and zoom 5x the black only. ..

then i will buy one

+1

I'd ask for a skin line. Please add these features to make it more usable.

Well, I would have bought 2 of these bad boys if Blackmagic Design had bothered to add the features that every other scopes has and users expect, but they didn't so my money went to Divergent Media instead. I'm enjoying the Scopebox customizability and versatility at a fraction of the price, utilizing a computer and hardware I already had.

Thanks for the dirvergent media tip it looks good and may be a good replacement for capturing too

Sent from my 0PJA10 using Tapatalk

+1 on the vectorscope requests: zoom, center marker, limit line, and I/Q. It's not at all useful for colour correction. I should have read up here before purchasing - back to Adorama for this guy.

The Resolve scopes are more functional, but missing the big zoom. In addition, it makes me nervous not to look at the outs.

There use to be bigger issue with BM scopes- they don't do low pass filtering which can lead e.g. waveform to show very misleading information.
Other problems are cosmetic and most likely firmware fixable. Lack of low pass filtering is apparently not.
Not sure about 4K models.

I was just looking at the FSI website and their scopestream utility looks interesting. Its runs off the DM series monitors or their BOX IO Lut box.

Working a lot in animation, I have always loved their "Hue Vector" scope built into their monitor - it allows for 4x zoom and a user adjustable hue vector line. Unfortunately, my monitor is an AM250 monitor so the scope is slooooooow.

Anyone tried the FSI scopestream?

DID ANY ONE FROM BMD EVER RESPONDED TO THIS?
I own a SmartScope Duo 4K, and I constantly need to open the internal scope, It is missing so many feature its ridicules! I mean its an LCD screen why can it do any color over lay of scopes? or a simple centre crosshair for the vectorscope? would have been better of getting a ScopeBox.

BMD??

I wrote to them, and they said that they would put these into the feature requests. They also said that they did not have any immediate plans to proceed with an update to the smartscope duo. I sent my unit back. I would suggest writing to support directly or making a formal feature request.

I tested the drastic.tv 4k scope and the Scopebox. I am going with Scopebox in the end: User hue graticles, HML vectorscopes with selectable luma ranges, totally cutomizable layout.

The only downside is having to purchase the upper-range mac mini (I am PC based now) and a BMD mini recorder. It is still a steal when you consider the functionality of Scopebox and the price of HW scopes.

By the way, before I sent my smartscope back, I had a pair of nice 3U desk brackets 3D printed for the smartscope duo. If anyone is interested, you can PM me.

DID ANY ONE FROM BMD EVER RESPONDED TO THIS?
I own a SmartScope Duo 4K, and I constantly need to open the internal scope, It is missing so many feature its ridicules! I mean its an LCD screen why can it do any color over lay of scopes? or a simple centre crosshair for the vectorscope? would have been better of getting a ScopeBox.

BMD??

Sorry, but you bought the product. Have you read description?
If you were not happy why didn't you return it? There are many other products, so no one forces you to use product which you think is crap.

Don't expect BM to comment about it here.

DID ANY ONE FROM BMD EVER RESPONDED TO THIS?
I own a SmartScope Duo 4K, and I constantly need to open the internal scope, It is missing so many feature its ridicules! I mean its an LCD screen why can it do any color over lay of scopes? or a simple centre crosshair for the vectorscope? would have been better of getting a ScopeBox.

BMD??

Sorry, but you bought the product. Have you read description?
If you were not happy why didn't you return it? There are many other products, so no one forces you to use product which you think is crap.

Don't expect BM to comment about it here.

You are totally right, with this one I should have done more research, Having that said, good luck trying to return a product while living in the middle east.
Ill file a request to BM, but looks like I will not be the first or the last.

Happy to report that after returning the 4K Duo, I purchased a Mac Mini + an underdesk mount, BMD Mini Monitor and Scopebox. IT IS AWESOME: user graticule in the vectorscope, 2X zoom (wish for more), envelope visualization, luma qualified vectorscope in the HML scopes, channel plot for gamut monitoring, excursion recording to a CSV file based on program timecode. It feels like a package purpose built for color correction. All in for about $1100 CAD. It's a great deal and about the price of the 4K Duo here. Add in Synergy Pro for mouse and keyboard control + a bit of setup and it works seamlessly with my workstation.

I LOVE (LOVE) BMD's work on their capture hardware, cameras, recorders, Resolve and Fusion. If they were to turn some specific attention to their scopes, they would sell a lot of units.

Does Smartscope or Scopebox do HDR?

Seems like Blackmagic has pretty much abandoned updating/improving the SmartScope Duo.

Seems very little activity on this product in years?

One just arrived for testing and was surprised how few options existed to configure the scopes.

Seems very little activity on this product in years?

One just arrived for testing and was surprised how few options existed to configure the scopes.

yeah... that is why I never bought one....

They're pretty ubiquitous here in online suite facilities. I've always found them fine. I use a Video Assist 12G HDR in my home suite, simply because of space but it does have more flexibility than the Smartscope as a waveform monitor, albeit with only one screen, and makes a handy location monitor too.

They're pretty ubiquitous here in online suite facilities.

Nice. What is an online suite facility Steve?

Nice. What is an online suite facility Steve?

Sorry Derek, I mean a finishing suite as in grading.

Like with some other devices, software has killed hardware in this area too.
With solutions like Nobe Onmiscope around, it’s not really attractive to develop in this field. Apart from facilities for which a Tektronix is a must.