Cintel Acquisition

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mikeburton

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Cintel Acquisition

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 6:33 pm

I've been extremely interested ever since i saw the Blackmagic-Design.com home page announce the new Cintel acquisition. http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/press/p ... seID=31407

Since I own an Arri 435es camera system and have worked with film for years, the bottleneck of the telecine/scan in the post chain really puts film out of the budget range of many filmmakers who would rather shoot film for their projects but can't afford to. For example, just last week i processed 400ft of film through Deluxe Hollywood as a test. They were kind enough to process the neg for free since it was only a test but the 2K Log scans cost $980.00 with a hard drive i supplied and not including shipping costs. And that's only 4.5 minutes of footage. Doing Telecine - Scan via EDL's is also going to be extremely cumbersome and expensive because those costs double in the conform process when they have to pull all your selects from your EDL's = more time = more money.

I also happen to own a small post-production color house in northern california and unfortunately can't justify owning a scanner at the current market rates $100k+. But, i could justify it and sell scanning, camera package etc as a combined service if the scanners were small post house budget friendly (hint, hint, wink, wink). I'd love to see BMD do with this what they did with DaVinci Resolve, ie take a $100k product and make it affordable for the masses. Desktop scanning if you will. They already own Resolve and could use Resolve as the input software for digitizing the media from the scanner via one of their already existing capture cards.


I'd love to hear others thoughts on this as well. But please, lets not make this a film vs digital discussion, just a friendly conversation about the new Cintel product to come and our imaginative speculations at play.
Mike Burton
Pretty Moving Pictures, LLC
Check out my Resolve 9 Training at: http://www.cmivfx.com/tutorials/view/486/DaVinci+Resolve+Introduction
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Paul Carlin

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Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 9:26 pm

I'm no expert on business, but I would imagine there is not much demand out there for a cheaper way to scan film. Just as there is no demand for a cheaper dial-up modem or a cheaper way to press vinyl records.

Now, if this affordable scanner came with a 8mm gate, I'd be interested.

- Paul
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John Brawley

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Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 9:46 pm

sparkmedia wrote:I'm no expert on business, but I would imagine there is not much demand out there for a cheaper way to scan film. Just as there is no demand for a cheaper dial-up modem or a cheaper way to press vinyl records.

Now, if this affordable scanner came with a 8mm gate, I'd be interested.

- Paul


There's over 100 years worth of film sitting on shelfs out there. A lot of film sitting in archives. News was shot on film until the 70's remember.

jb
John Brawley
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Jesuan Soriano

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Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:42 pm

yeah... the other day i was talking bout this on twitter with some folks, we thought they will make scanning for the masses....that would be awesome, but I don't see it really reliable , so i'm quite interested in seeing that BMD do with this!!!

js
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mikeburton

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Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:56 pm

sparkmedia wrote:I'm no expert on business, but I would imagine there is not much demand out there for a cheaper way to scan film. Just as there is no demand for a cheaper dial-up modem or a cheaper way to press vinyl records.

Now, if this affordable scanner came with a 8mm gate, I'd be interested.

- Paul


I disagree, respectfully of course. Film is still arguably the best quality you can capture and of course has its own look to it that many find extremely desirable. The biggest entryway for digital acquisition is/was less expensive cost to entry. I agree now a days it's going to be more niche market but if the price point is right there are many advantages to shooting film. Not to mention restoration and remastering / reprinting.
The question is, what does that price point look like that makes it affordable enough for folks to stop and compare prices between the mediums. With data rates climbing 10 times faster than the HDD storage prices can drop one would think we are on pace to see digital catching up to film costs in backups, LTO archives, etc. anyone shot ArriRaw or F65 lately? Jim Jannard's quote: "The Future is Extremely high Data rates...get ready".
Now, cut your scanning costs for film in half or more and I bet you'll see way more sub-5 million productions push to go film. Also, give Kodak a call and get a quote for 100,000 feet of 35mm V3 stock and see how agressive they get on price for you, then compare that to your SSD media prices/rentals. Processing at .08c/ft isn't killing any final decisions between the two mediums. But the telecine/scanning is...for now.
Mike Burton
Pretty Moving Pictures, LLC
Check out my Resolve 9 Training at: http://www.cmivfx.com/tutorials/view/486/DaVinci+Resolve+Introduction
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mikeburton

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Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostWed Aug 22, 2012 11:59 pm

Jesuan wrote:yeah... the other day i was talking bout this on twitter with some folks, we thought they will make scanning for the masses....that would be awesome, but I don't see it really reliable , so i'm quite interested in seeing that BMD do with this!!!

js


Cool, I'm curious what makes you concerned it won't be reliable? Would you mind going into more detail on this thought?
Mike Burton
Pretty Moving Pictures, LLC
Check out my Resolve 9 Training at: http://www.cmivfx.com/tutorials/view/486/DaVinci+Resolve+Introduction
http://www.cmivfx.com/tutorials/view/487/DaVinci+Resolve+3D+Dailies+Setup+Featuring+GoPro
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Jesuan Soriano

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Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 12:38 am

maybe i didn't express my self correctly. English is not my first language and I didn't know ho to explain it. I 'm not very sure what to say about this since we don't really know what is going on with this. I was just expeculating on what would be great. And it would be awesome to shoot on film, process is much interesting but longer and that's why people don't shoot film. :)
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mikeburton

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Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostThu Aug 23, 2012 5:16 pm

And, just announced today from Kodak, here is the start of "AFFORDABLE" Print stocks.
http://motion.kodak.com/motion/About/Th ... /index.htm
Mike Burton
Pretty Moving Pictures, LLC
Check out my Resolve 9 Training at: http://www.cmivfx.com/tutorials/view/486/DaVinci+Resolve+Introduction
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Tony diroom

Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostMon Sep 03, 2012 11:04 am

mikeburton wrote:And, just announced today from Kodak, here is the start of "AFFORDABLE" Print stocks.
http://motion.kodak.com/motion/About/Th ... /index.htm


This is big news! Also very interested to see what BM do with the Cintel acquisition. Storage and preservation is a big thing at the moment, and indeed with all the amount of film material that needs archiving, would be very interesting to see how the industry reacts
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mikeburton

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Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostMon Sep 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Kodak creating less expensive print stock is the first step. Next, they need to lower prices on their negative stocks. I believe we will see this next in some fashion or another. When it becomes equal in price to shoot film as it is to shoot digital with better archive solution it will be interesting to see which way filmmakers choose. Unfortunately, it hasn't been an option for so long for indies there is a serious shortage of new filmmakers that dont know how to handle/work with film.
That said I will be one of the first to sign on the dotted line for this new scanner if BMD brings it to the market at a competitive price point. I'd love to see them include a copy of Revival with the scanner as well. That would make a lot of sense but of course would also be very generous :)
Mike Burton
Pretty Moving Pictures, LLC
Check out my Resolve 9 Training at: http://www.cmivfx.com/tutorials/view/486/DaVinci+Resolve+Introduction
http://www.cmivfx.com/tutorials/view/487/DaVinci+Resolve+3D+Dailies+Setup+Featuring+GoPro
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Frank_Wylie

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Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostMon Sep 17, 2012 3:04 pm

mikeburton wrote:And, just announced today from Kodak, here is the start of "AFFORDABLE" Print stocks.
http://motion.kodak.com/motion/About/Th ... /index.htm


I too share your love of film, but I do have to point out that the stock you referenced is NOT a projection print stock, but an archival stock designed to archive images from either film or digital origination.

Unlike normal projection print stock, this stock comes standard with B&H negative perforations in short-pitch (0.1866 inch), normal prints come with KS perfs with long-pitch (0.1870 inch). This alone (never mind the following) will make the projection of these elements problematic and prone to dramatic wear.

This stock is basically a "unity gamma stock" of 1.00 to 1.30 gamma, designed to give you a 1:1 reproduciton of contrast ratios from the original image, as output by a digital film recorder. The resulting image will look somewhat like a DPX file without the correct LUT applied; low contrast and low density.

Sorry, but it is NOT print stock and won't work a such!

Hopefully Kodak can hold it together and keep color print stock alive, as Fuji has now bailed out in the print stock business.

For what it is worth, ORWO in Germany still makes camera neg, fine grain interpositive, print stock and sound recording stock in 35mm/16mm, but strictly in B&W!

http://www.orwona.com/

Stay strong!

Frank Wylie
Motion Picture Timer/Grader
Library of Congress
National Audio Visual Conservation Center
Packard Campus
Culpeper, VA 22701
(202) 707-1035 desk

My views and opinions do not represent the official viewpoint of my employer.
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Paul Carlin

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Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostThu Mar 15, 2018 5:59 pm

Paul Carlin wrote:Just as there is no demand for a cheaper dial-up modem or a cheaper way to press vinyl records.


In hindsight, I was wrong about vinyl records.

When I have the expendable income (and live in a house built of concrete), I would like to purchase a Cintel Scanner to hang on my wall as art.

- Paul
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Scott Smith

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Re: Cintel Acquisition

PostThu Mar 15, 2018 7:41 pm

Is anyone looking for cheaper ways to press vinyl records? I thought vinyl was now an audiophile format, and they were looking for the most expensive way to press them.
Scott R Smith
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