How to stop BMD colourspace being read as REC.709

Hello!
In the manual of the original BMPCC it seems that when the camera is on 'film' mode it should be recording LOG

Blackmagic Cameras have two dynamic range settings:

Film
The film setting records video using a log curve and gives you 13 stops of dynamic
range, which maximizes the information in your video signal to help you get the most
out of color grading software, such as DaVinci Resolve. When recording in CinemaDNG
RAW formats, only the film dynamic range setting is available.

Video
The video setting uses the REC709 standard for high definition video. This lets you
work faster by recording directly to the compressed video formats your camera
supports, which are compatible with popular post production software. Adjust the
dynamic range settings using the arrow icons in the menu.

Yet when I bring the footage shot on 'film' mode in prores into a Premiere project and look at the properties of the footage it says REC709.


Does this mean the footage shot in this space
Input colour space: Blackmagic Design Film Gen 1
Input gamma is BMD Design Film
Is being reduced to a REC.709 colour space?

Is there anything that can be done to import BMD into Premiere as LOG instead of REC.709?
Can it be read as LOG if I import the same footage in Resolve.

Thanks!

No problem in DR, just switch off automatic color management.

The log encoding of Prores is encoded for Rec709. As such the footage will appear as 709 in the inspector/finder.

Does this mean the footage shot in this space
Input colour space: Blackmagic Design Film Gen 1
Input gamma is BMD Design Film
Is being reduced to a REC.709 colour space?

Yes. That's the whole point of log, squeezing a bigger space into a smaller one.

It sounds like Premier is using some color management. What happens if you open the files on the desktop?

Good Luck

Probably just basic color management.

What are your Premiere color management settings? In the Lumetri panel Settings tab, all CM settings are in one place.

So, do you have auto detect log on, and also auto tonemapping? That would do what you're seeing, if you add media of that format to a sequence set to Rec.709 in the CM.

And don't say something silly like "they're applying an input LUT" ... they've had plenty of statements and documents released on their new tonemapping system for months now.. It's algorithms. Designed for specific media.

For the vast majority of formats I've tested, their algorithms are a very safe and typically decent transform to Rec.709. Yea, not identical to any specific transform LUT, but equally useful as a starting point. Actually safer for your pixels than most LUTs.

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Thanks for the replies!

When I open the files on desktop I can't see whether they're LOG or Rec.709, but when I open them in MediaInfo the Color primaries, Transfer characteristics and Matrix coefficients are all BT.709.
The colourist on this project has brought the original footage into Resolve where it is also appearing as Rec.709, and is needing to work with that colour space which is not ideal. I did some tests to make sure I didn't just accidentally have Video mode on when shooting, and everything shot in Film/Prores has the same problem.

This would suggest that 'Film' mode on the gen 1 Black Magic Pocket is no longer LOG when you're shooting in ProRes. But even in Resolve it looks milkier and more washed out than regular Rec.709, so I'm wondering if there's something else going on or some setting that will allow the colourist to work in LOG! Any help here would be massively appreciated.

The log encoding of Prores is encoded for Rec709. As such the footage will appear as 709 in the inspector/finder.

Does this mean the footage shot in this space
Input colour space: Blackmagic Design Film Gen 1
Input gamma is BMD Design Film
Is being reduced to a REC.709 colour space?

Yes. That's the whole point of log, squeezing a bigger space into a smaller one.

It sounds like Premier is using some color management. What happens if you open the files on the desktop?

Good Luck

Please note that gamma and color space are two different things.
The color space of your original files will be read into a huge internal color space in DR anyway, you loose nothing. And if your images look 'milky', they are log for sure.

While not all combinations will make sense, camera makers can combine different color spaces and gamma. Sony, for example, even offers you two versions for S-log3. Or see the iPhone 15, it combines Apple's own log with Rec. 2020 for its color space.

But even in Resolve it looks milkier and more washed out than regular Rec.709...

Yes, because the footage is log.

Resolve will work in a variety of colorspace/gamma configuration, there's no need to use 709. The footage you have is Blackmagic Film G1 so you could use that timeline colorspace. Probably more popular to use a node sandwich and transform to DWGI. Resolve's color management will do this in the background as well.

Good Luck

It's ProRes, Howard, not BRAW or DNG. It would all be easy in RAW.

Quenton, this may help. The image on the left is, in this case, Rec 709 Canon C-Log, the one on the right is after application of a Color Space Transform.