What is the best Spec for editing 4k?

I wanted to assemble a PC, not Mac, that can edit 4K videos.
I humbly ask for your professional opinion about this matter.
thank you so much

A general budget and performance goal would be helpful.

Asus P9x79-E WS
Intel 5930k
nVidia 4Gb GTX980 x2
64Gb DDR4 Vengeance 2400
Fractal Design R4
NZXT Kraken X61
1000W EVGA Supernova
256GB SSD
512 SSD x2
28" Asus 4k Pro Display
Blackmagic Design DeckLink Studio 4K

That's what I've just ordered anyway. Will set you back about £4100 but will do the job.

You're welcome.

Unless you are working some magic voodoo that I am unaware of...

Issue #1

The P9x79-E WS supports DDR3.
You have DDR4 in your list.

Issue #2

The Intel Core I7-5930K is an LGA2011-v3 socket processor.
The Asus P9x79-E WS is an LGA2011 2nd Gen socket motherboard (i7-3000 and i7-4000 series).
The i7-5930K is not compatible with the 2nd Gen LGA2011 socket.

See Intel LGA2011-v3 socket compatibility
Specifically, Note: These processors are not compatible with the LGA2011 socket.

and: ASUS P9x79-E WS supported CPUs

You will probably want to change the motherboard to the X99 series, specifically the ASUS X99-E WS LGA2011-3.
Or change the processor back one generation and the RAM to DDR3.

I also wouldn't waste the money on the WS board, you can get the same performance out of a much cheaper board without the problems that can be introduced by the PCI-e switching chips

In the ASUS brand, AFAIK all current X99 motherboards are supporting the same 4x or 5x PCIe 3 x16 slot hardware configuration.
So they are all using the PLX PEX 8747 PCI Express Multiplexer.

The X99-E WS and the X99-A are 4x PCIe 3 x16.
The X99-Deluxe and X99 Rampage V Extreme are 5x PCIe 3 x16.

With only two video adapters installed I would expect no issues at all.


If you don't want your brain to hurt, stop reading here.


If he is only using the two video adapters and an i7-5930K (which supports 40 PCIe Lanes), there should be no noticeable issues with the MUX since it is full line rate and non-blocking.
At most there should be no more than a 100ns large packet latency (I am not under NDA with PLX so I cannot access their data sheets to obtain all necessary information regarding this). If an installation required more than two GPUs, the extra performance from the third and fourth GPU would easily surpass any minor MUX latency.
The only other differences would be higher board component count and complexity, additional current draw to feed the PLX chip(s), additional heat around the CPU socket where the PLXs are mounted, etc.

If a person installs more than two video adapters, then they would have to be sure that they are not saturating the PCIe lanes to the CPU, as that would theoretically become a system data transfer bottleneck in a MUX-based system.
This would become a possible issue quicker with the lower-end CPUs, since they have 28 PCIe Lanes instead of 40 (eg. i7-5820K Hex-Core has 28 Lanes, i7-5930K Hex-core has 40 Lanes).
And especially when performing OpenCL/CUDA type operations, as they can be greater data bandwidth loads than gaming.
Gaming data is typically unidirectional, host-to-device, ie. send polygon and texture data to the GPU.
OpenCL/CUDA is typically bi-directional, ie. send data to GPU, have the GPU process the data, return the modified data.
The dynamic memory pool in the PEX MUX would hopefully alleviate any bandwidth saturation issue by buffering device-to-host data transfers in an interleaving manner between all devices.

I would doubt that the typical workflow by most people on these forums using current video editing and graphics software would fully load four high-end GPUs and their 64 PCIe lanes, or all 40 lanes on the CPU *, so I wouldn't see it as an issue for most.
* PCIe 3 single lane data transfer rate = 985 MB/s, so 985 x 40 lanes = 39.4 GB/s total.

Anyone who is pushing that much data should seriously look at a dual processor system instead.
Having dual Xeon CPUs and 80 Lanes of PCIe would alleviate any of the MUX bottlenecks.
If a person can afford it.

Note that PCIe host-to-device and device-to-host bandwidth is typically asymmetric.
The OpenCL clEnqueueReadBuffer() and clEnqueueWriteBuffer() commands can be used to test the platform's PCIe performance.
Typically, bus master writes are more efficient than bus master reads for any PCIe implementation due to protocol overhead and the relative complexity of implementation.

Note, I was only thinking out loud on some of the points above...

A general budget and performance goal would be helpful.

We are starting a new Post-Production House, and by next year we are scheduled to shoot and edit 2 Feature Films that will be released commercially.

Our budget is between 2000-3000 dollars. Is this enough?

IMHO $2k to $3k is just enough to get a basic system.
A "best spec for editing 4k" would easily be $6k to $8k+.

For around $2600 US + tax you would only get something such as this previous-generation CPU.
Note that this is only one component list, there are a multitude of configuration and brand choices.

NZXT H630 tower case
Seasonic G-750 Gold 750W Modular Power Supply
Samsung SATA DVD Writer
ASUS Sabertooth Z97 Mark 2 LGA1150 Motherboard
Intel Core i7-4790 Haswell 3.6GHZ 4-Core HT Processor LGA1150
G.SKILL Ripjaws 32GB DDR3-1600 RAM
GeForce GTX 980 4GB Video Adapter
2 * SanDisk Ultra II 480GB SSD (1 for OS, 1 for cache and clips, or other configs)
2 * Western Digital 3TB Hard Drive (user preference either RAID 0 or 1, or simply Robocopy mirror)
108 mechanical Keyboard
Logitech ergonomic Mouse
Windows 8.1 Full
any other odds and ends I may have missed

You can possibly squeeze it up to the current generation with an ASUS X99-A motherboard, Intel i7-5820k Hex-core, and 32GB DDR4 for around $3000 + tax.

Plus a monitor I assume.
I recommend not getting a standard TN monitor as they are only 6-bit.
A good calibrated IPS or other format 8-bit/10-bit monitor will set you back some good money.
I use a Dell UltraSharp U3011 30" and U2913WM 29" ultrawide on my editing suite systems for GUI monitors, which is half+ of your budget just in those two items.

Adam and some of the other forum members should be able to give you some good additional/alternate lists.

A general budget and performance goal would be helpful.

We are starting a new Post-Production House, and by next year we are scheduled to shoot and edit 2 Feature Films that will be released commercially.

Our budget is between 2000-3000 dollars. Is this enough?

Including the HDD Drives? Are you planning to use DPX/Tiff? That can drive up the price 5x and more....

If you are looking for professionally do post production you might want to consider RAID5s and speed, a lot of speed.

a 4K feature once rendered (dpx) you're looking at 6-10 Terabyte of data.... be aware...

GPU is king. I'm running a pretty old computer (>4 years), 8x PCIE busses, I think its 2600K intel CPU.

But I have dual Titans (get the 6GB GTX780s) and RAID SSDs and it flies with 4K. Real-time.

That's what Resolve wants fast GPUs, and for 4K, each GPU needs to have 6GB or more. If using Premiere for editing then again fast GPUs. Though might need 32GB or more RAM if doing heavy AE work as well.

Jules

In the ASUS brand, AFAIK all current X99 motherboards are supporting the same 4x or 5x PCIe 3 x16 slot hardware configuration.
So they are all using the PLX PEX 8747 PCI Express Multiplexer.

The X99-E WS and the X99-A are 4x PCIe 3 x16.
The X99-Deluxe and X99 Rampage V Extreme are 5x PCIe 3 x16.

With only two video adapters installed I would expect no issues at all.

.....

I use the Gigabyte boards which still give me 7 slots and don't use the multiplexers so no issue with latency due to multiplexers.

Although having said that, looking at the specs of the Asus boards I see no mention of the Plex used on any other boards than the X99-E WS. All the other boards may have the slots you mention but they don't always run at 16x when other slots are populated. The only board that claims it doesn't drop the slot speed down so you only use 40 lanes is the X99-E WS

Unless you are working some magic voodoo that I am unaware of...

Issue #1

The P9x79-E WS supports DDR3.
You have DDR4 in your list.

Issue #2

The Intel Core I7-5930K is an LGA2011-v3 socket processor.
The Asus P9x79-E WS is an LGA2011 2nd Gen socket motherboard (i7-3000 and i7-4000 series).
The i7-5930K is not compatible with the 2nd Gen LGA2011 socket.

See Intel LGA2011-v3 socket compatibility
Specifically, Note: These processors are not compatible with the LGA2011 socket.

and: ASUS P9x79-E WS supported CPUs

You will probably want to change the motherboard to the X99 series, specifically the ASUS X99-E WS LGA2011-3.
Or change the processor back one generation and the RAM to DDR3.

My bad, I did actaully mean the X99-E WS, I'm currently running the P9x79 with my 3930k and I had that in my head at the time of writing.

With regards to a WS class board, £100 seems like a reasonable price for use of better quality transistors. It's not really about performance, it's about longevity. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

For me X99 has a few major pluses over previous generations which make it worth the extra expense, not just the faster processors but the addition of up to 10 SATA III ports which will help with storage.

I've tried justifying to myself the extra expense of a Xeon setup but I can't bring myself to do it. Roughly £1500 extra for a similar speed system which I will relegate to offline machine and replace in 2-3 years doesn't add up to me. If Resolve, Prem or AE made better use of multiprocessing (multiprocessing in AE is flakey at best) then I might consider going dual cpu but for now price vs performance on the i7 enthusiast stuff is a winner every time.

The usual reason for capacitors to go on motherboards is due to lack of use and they get damp. Personally I see no reason to pay that much more just for the capacitors. Seems more of a marketing gimmick to me. Even cheaper boards such as the Gigabyte X99-UD4 have 10K capacitors

IMHO $2k to $3k is just enough to get a basic system.
A "best spec for editing 4k" would easily be $6k to $8k+.

For around $2600 US + tax you would only get something such as this previous-generation CPU.
Note that this is only one component list, there are a multitude of configuration and brand choices.

NZXT H630 tower case
Seasonic G-750 Gold 750W Modular Power Supply
Samsung SATA DVD Writer
ASUS Sabertooth Z97 Mark 2 LGA1150 Motherboard
Intel Core i7-4790 Haswell 3.6GHZ 4-Core HT Processor LGA1150
G.SKILL Ripjaws 32GB DDR3-1600 RAM
GeForce GTX 980 4GB Video Adapter
2 * SanDisk Ultra II 480GB SSD (1 for OS, 1 for cache and clips, or other configs)
2 * Western Digital 3TB Hard Drive (user preference either RAID 0 or 1, or simply Robocopy mirror)
108 mechanical Keyboard
Logitech ergonomic Mouse
Windows 8.1 Full
any other odds and ends I may have missed

You can possibly squeeze it up to the current generation with an ASUS X99-A motherboard, Intel i7-5820k Hex-core, and 32GB DDR4 for around $3000 + tax.

Plus a monitor I assume.
I recommend not getting a standard TN monitor as they are only 6-bit.
A good calibrated IPS or other format 8-bit/10-bit monitor will set you back some good money.
I use a Dell UltraSharp U3011 30" and U2913WM 29" ultrawide on my editing suite systems for GUI monitors, which is half+ of your budget just in those two items.

Adam and some of the other forum members should be able to give you some good additional/alternate lists.

Thanks for this! This is noted!
Hopefully by January or February next year we'll have this!
And yes, we're also looking for some alternative items that will fit our needs.

Our budget is between 2000-3000 dollars. Is this enough?

Were you considering a grade panel? Wave... Element... something else? Or are you going with an existing panel that someone was using for AVID, second-hand, inherited...? Or... mouse and keyboard? Element alone is $5K.

I just found a late MacPro5,1 that came with *no* accessories for $US2400. No keyboard, no mouse... literally, it only had a power cord in the box with the tower. That's it.

Built the rest of the system with internal raid, Decklink 4KExtreme, larger GUI monitors and so on, oh, yeah, a Cubix extender with 2x Titan Blacks, all fleshed out for another amount significantly higher... (Titans are a little over a grand apiece). The only efficiency came with the fact that I was just trying to bump up the existing infrastructure, changing out a 3,1 -- already in place is a Tangent Element set, Flanders grade monitor, and so on. Those last two items alone are $10K plus. So even if you don't have or need an external waveform monitoring system, which can hover in the $US15K region, you are really looking at about $22-24K. Don't forget to paint and light-control your grade room... bonus question, do you have a 4K (not UHD) reference monitor or projector?

Also consider that the easyDCP license does not accompany the REsolve software -- it must still be purchased. You may be considering one of the freeware DCP creation applications. Not really the way to go for commercial release, as most distributors will likely insist on encryption.

What budget level are these two commercial-release features? Are you absolutely sure you don't want someone else to take care of this investment, and just "rent out" their room, talent and experience?

jPo

My bad, I did actaully mean the X99-E WS, I'm currently running the P9x79 with my 3930k and I had that in my head at the time of writing.

No problem.
I mentioned it because I would hate to see the incorrect board show up on the order.

I've tried justifying to myself the extra expense of a Xeon setup but I can't bring myself to do it.

For an i7-5930K Hex-core versus Xeon E5-2643-v3 Hex-core single processor scenario, the only notable things the E5 brings to the table other than the ability to have dual-processors, is its larger 20MB cache (vs 15MB), slightly lower TDP, larger Max Memory Size (768MB vs 64MB), and ECC support.

I use the Gigabyte boards which still give me 7 slots and don't use the multiplexers so no issue with latency due to multiplexers.

Nothing wrong with GigaByte, I have a couple.
I wouldn't expect any latency until the ASUS X99-E WS is loaded with 3+ video adapters.
And even then it will be minor (typical would probably be 10-20ns).

Although having said that, looking at the specs of the Asus boards I see no mention of the Plex used on any other boards than the X99-E WS.

Sorry, yes, you are correct, I should have looked closer at the specs for the -A -Deluxe -Rampage.
They list the slot speeds for both the 40 and 28 Lane processor configurations.

Thanks for this! This is noted!

You are welcome.
Please note that I noted on my previous post that this is just a basic system that fits that price range.
The system listed is leaning towards faster processor and GPU since those will matter.
You will still require the addition of some serious storage, reference monitor, 4k monitor, etc. if you are doing 4k feature films.

It's not the GPU's that are the issue on the WS board, but rather using a BM device for capturing. When using on the Plex they can drop frames if they have to wait, especially of capturing 4K or multiple SDI streams

In my opinion I would go with a Workstation like the new HP z840 + dual Titan Z instead of building my own system. The "older" HP z820 got much more cheaper on ebay and you could put 2x used 780Ti or 2x brand new 980 and you're done. I've built many systems over the years but I must say that these newer workstaions got really affordable.

You might want to check the power rating of the PSU before recommending those systems. 2 Titan Z's will add up to an extra 750W of power needed and I suspect the PSU's may not be up to that, especially once you add in harddrives and editing cards etc

Just a small note on GPUs.

For grading 4k/UHD the trend seems to be going for at least 6GB ram on the GPU. The 6Gb 780 is no longer available which leaves the Titan as the only nVidia card with 6Gb on board right now and they're rather pricey. I've just found out 8Gb versions of the 970 and 980 are due out early next year so I'm holding off to taking the plunge on a new system until then.

In my opinion I would go with a Workstation like the new HP z840 + dual Titan Z instead of building my own system. The "older" HP z820 got much more cheaper on ebay and you could put 2x used 780Ti or 2x brand new 980 and you're done. I've built many systems over the years but I must say that these newer workstaions got really affordable.

You might want to check the power rating of the PSU before recommending those systems. 2 Titan Z's will add up to an extra 750W of power needed and I suspect the PSU's may not be up to that, especially once you add in harddrives and editing cards etc

For those interested in the specs:
The HP z820 and z840 are available with either an 850Watt or 1125Watt power supply.
A 6GB Titan or Titan Black uses 250Watt, a 12GB Titan Z uses 375Watt.

It's not the GPU's that are the issue on the WS board, but rather using a BM device for capturing. When using on the Plex they can drop frames if they have to wait, especially of capturing 4K or multiple SDI streams

For interest's sake, which PEX-based systems did you encounter capture issues with?