Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

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Gordian Miller

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Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostFri Feb 13, 2015 6:01 pm

We notice Audio Sync Problems when capturing long VHS Tapes of 3 hours or 4 hours in PAL SD ProRes422. The Audio goes more and more out of sync. We have this audio gaps only with the Intensity Shuttle USB and not with the thunderbolt version. (OSX Mavericks on MacMini i5 Dual Core 2.5Ghz)

Has anyone an explanation?
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostFri Feb 13, 2015 7:30 pm

Sounds like it's dropping frames on capture. What software are you using to capture with?
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Building Bespoke Video Editing systems for over 16 years
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Gordian Miller

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostSat Feb 14, 2015 10:07 am

Media Express
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostSat Feb 14, 2015 1:05 pm

Do you have it set to stop capture if frame drop occurs?
DVC Built Clevo P775DM3-G Laptop with UHD screen, 7700K CPU@4.9Ghz, Geforce GTX 1060 6GB GPU, G-Sync UHD screen, 500GB M.2 Primary, 1x 480GB SSD, 1x1TB M.2, 1x 2TB Video drives.
Building Bespoke Video Editing systems for over 16 years
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Gordian Miller

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostSat Feb 14, 2015 1:10 pm

no - this function I have disabled. I checked the speed of the disks and it's OK for SD capturing. I will observe this problem further, because not all capturings have a gap.
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostSat Feb 14, 2015 1:28 pm

It's not a drive speed issue, but a source issue. If the BM device doesn't receive a full frame then it drops that frame and you get sync issues. This will show up if you have it set to stop on dropped frames.
The usual way round this is to send the signal through a timebase corrector to clean up the source signal before feeding it to the BM device
DVC Built Clevo P775DM3-G Laptop with UHD screen, 7700K CPU@4.9Ghz, Geforce GTX 1060 6GB GPU, G-Sync UHD screen, 500GB M.2 Primary, 1x 480GB SSD, 1x1TB M.2, 1x 2TB Video drives.
Building Bespoke Video Editing systems for over 16 years
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Gordian Miller

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostSat Feb 14, 2015 1:58 pm

of course we are sending analog vtr signals always through a TBC …otherwise it would not be possible to capture an analog signal coming from a VHS or Video8 etc. (except it has a reliable built in TBC)
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostSat Feb 14, 2015 5:04 pm

Actually it's down to the condition of the tapes on whether you can capture them without a TBC. I don't have an issue capturing most of my tapes through S-video without a TBC, but then they are in pristine condition.
DVC Built Clevo P775DM3-G Laptop with UHD screen, 7700K CPU@4.9Ghz, Geforce GTX 1060 6GB GPU, G-Sync UHD screen, 500GB M.2 Primary, 1x 480GB SSD, 1x1TB M.2, 1x 2TB Video drives.
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Gordian Miller

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostSun Feb 15, 2015 1:37 pm

Adam Simmons wrote:Actually it's down to the condition of the tapes on whether you can capture them without a TBC. I don't have an issue capturing most of my tapes through S-video without a TBC, but then they are in pristine condition.


Wow that's very interesting - What Type of VHS- Machine exactly do You use for capturing without a TBC?
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostSun Feb 15, 2015 3:11 pm

Just a standard consumer player
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Gordian Miller

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostSun Feb 15, 2015 3:59 pm

Adam Simmons wrote:Just a standard consumer player

so You are lucky … because this is definitely an accidental exception.

We work with over 20 different SVHS/VHS machines (professional, industrial and consumer types) and with none of them You can digitize a whole VHS tape directely (without TBC) into a BMD capture device. Not even a brand new, factory made VHS movietape would work. It always results earlier or later in some sync problems e.g. black frames or similar. That's why a good TBC is a MUST for digitizing good result from a analog videocassette.
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostSun Feb 15, 2015 6:11 pm

It's not an exception. I'm a system builder making video editing systems, and also have clients who don't always have to use a TBC to capture in. Not all tapes come in, but usually my clients only find out about having to use a TBC when they hit a tape that doesn't work. I often get calls where they say they have been using the BM device for a year or two, and suddenly they have a tape that doesn't work at which point I explain to them about needing a TBC to capture that tape.
I'm not saying that using one isn't advisable, just that it's not always necessary.

As to a factory made VHS movie tape, then I wouldn't expect those to come in without a TBC as they have copy protection
DVC Built Clevo P775DM3-G Laptop with UHD screen, 7700K CPU@4.9Ghz, Geforce GTX 1060 6GB GPU, G-Sync UHD screen, 500GB M.2 Primary, 1x 480GB SSD, 1x1TB M.2, 1x 2TB Video drives.
Building Bespoke Video Editing systems for over 16 years
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Gordian Miller

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostThu Feb 19, 2015 3:00 pm

Audio Sync Problems with SD Capturing through an Intensity USB Shuttle remain, although we have over 100 Mb/s Read/Write and no dropped frames during capture (and playback). We have changed the Capture Harddisk and the TBC but anyway audio is delayed on long 3 hours recordings.
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Alan Nethery

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostWed Mar 25, 2015 10:46 pm

I am basically a neophyte working with a video system, but I have been slowly learning as I go along, so please have a little patience with me. Our church bought a video system that included an EVI camera that we capture through a Intensity Shuttle USB and Media Express which ran through a Dell Windows 8.1 Desktop. Our computer was a Walmart special with no way to upgrade anything, so we purchased a RAIDMAX 4.0ghz FX-8350 8-core gaming computer NVidia GTX 650 with 8g of RAM with Windows 7 Professional. First the Media Express would not "see" the Intensity Shuttle, and then only after I upgraded to Media Express 10. None of my clips are more than 30 minutes long, but almost immediately the audio starts going out of sync. Can someone explain to me what is happening here, and what I need to check? (I did not check out dropped frames... not checked) -Help would be appreciated!
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Steve Pittoors

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostThu Jul 16, 2015 11:27 am

I also have Audio Sync issues with the Intensity Shuttle USB. HDMI / S-VIDEO / TBC or not all result in audio drift... :roll:

Blackmagic Design System Report
Desktop Video 10.4.2

Intensity Shuttle
Video Input
HDMI

Operating System
OS X 10.10.4
Physical Memory
17179 MiB
Physical Processors
4
Hardware Model
MacBookAir6,2
#AUDIOSLAVE #VIDEONERD www.facebook.com/stevepittoors www.duffelcoat.be
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Steve Pittoors

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostThu Jul 16, 2015 4:43 pm

Downgraded to version 9.7.9 Beta and it works in Sync ! Very strange.

Any solutions from the Blackmagic guys for support in the "newer" version ?

Would it be possible to add the format/codec Quicktime DV in Media Express tool ?

Also a "limit time capture" would be a great feature. (That you can set the capture time duration eg 30 minutes)
Last edited by Steve Pittoors on Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Massimiliano Celindano

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostThu Jul 16, 2015 6:48 pm

Hi, I have the same issue with the Intensity Pro 4k on PC. Besides, crackles are often audible while capturing footage in Media Express and Desktop Video 10.4.2 still didn't fix the audio track encoding issue as I mentioned here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36652

I would suggest also a "manual video input signal" feature for future versions of Desktop Video, because the automatic signal detection doesn't work properly. The signal switches continually from PAL to NTSC and viceversa while reproducing some analog sources like VHS or U-Matic tapes.

Thank you.
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wilcopshot

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostSat May 12, 2018 3:39 am

Did anyone ever resolve these issues?

I am using an intensity shuttle and having real issues with audio sync transferring some old video8 (much in LP).

I bought an old Sony CCD TRV65E (PAL) to play the tapes, and I'm taking the video through a CYP CTB-100 time base correction unit (on auto, which it correctly identifies as PAL consistently throughout playback).

I get a large (5 seconds at times) audio delay. This in its self would not phase me to much as i can just drag it in to time, but the delay is inconsistent and varies greatly. Just short of time stretching between the rare moments i can find an audio/video cue that is well defined enough to manually sync, I'm not sure how to resolve this. I have about 30 hours over 18 tapes to go yet, and could do with solving it in capture.

Same problem occurs capturing with BM Media Express (3.5.5) and Premiere Pro CC (12.0.0) . Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Greg

System is 4th gen i7, 16gb RAM, GTX 1060, capturing to SSD, HDD, USB3 HDD, all with same error.
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Billy Blair

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Re: Audio Sync Problem with Intensity Shuttle USB

PostWed Aug 01, 2018 11:02 am

I have the shuttle usb3 and had severe audio sync issue.

I was using version 10.11 so I downgraded to 10.4.3 and its ok again (as mentioned in this thread: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4749).

Im going to raise a support ticket with them about it.

Edit: I should note Im using a time base corrector and was not getting dropped frames so its definitely a driver issue.

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