Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

Do you have questions about Desktop Video, Converters, Routers and Monitoring?
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tobytomkins

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Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostSun Apr 26, 2015 1:36 pm

Is it possible to monitor both 4k and 1080p concurrently with any of the new decklink models? Ideally I would like to monitor 4k over HDMI AND 1080p over SDI at the same time. Is this possible?
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Tony Rivera

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostTue Apr 28, 2015 9:57 pm

The outputs will not scale and just produce the same signal out as being ingested into the card. So if it's 1080 in, it's 1080 out. That's for both SDI and HDMI.
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JPOwens

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostTue Apr 28, 2015 10:58 pm

You are not alone.

Whether it is the hardware architecture or Desktop Video software, simultaneous 4K and HD output (even out of an application like Resolve, not necessarily ion an I/O situation), is not a feature.

There are a number of converters on the market that we have to hang off the output of the card, either directly or through one of the handy routers.

Specifically, I'm looking for a way to feed HDMI 4K to a client monitor while feeding HD-SDI 1080 to my Wavetek scope. Might be a mini-Teranex, there are very few 4K --> HD downconverters... there are a ton of ups.

jPo
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Tim Auld

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 6:05 am

Hi,

The DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G can output Ultra HD up to 30p on HDMI and down converted HD on SDI. Your SDI A will still carry Ultra HD and your SDI B will be the down converted HD stream. Conversions are only applied to SDI and analog (when selected).

This feature was enabled in Desktop Video 10.4 and you can select this option from the Conversions tab of the new utility.
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tobytomkins

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 9:52 pm

So with the 4K 12G this IS possible? Tony can you please confirm that Tim is correct? Thanks, Toby (-:
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Tony Rivera

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 11:57 pm

Tim is correct.
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Dwaine Maggart

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostThu Apr 30, 2015 12:40 am

My concern was if Resolve would over-ride the Desktop Video Conversions tab selection when changing Resolve monitoring resolutions or loading projects. Testing shows that does not happen, so this is a wonderful feature for people needing both UHD and HD simultaneously from Resolve.
Dwaine Maggart
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Stepan Ko

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostFri May 01, 2015 4:51 pm

Would this be possible with a Decklink Studio 4k and a Mini Converter UpDownCross? The idea is to power the uhd tv with a uhd hdmi signal from the decklink, and the sony pvm oled with the sdi through the mini converter. Would anyone from BMD be able to confirm this?
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Dwaine Maggart

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostFri May 01, 2015 5:15 pm

The Mini Converter UpDownCross does not have UHD support.
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Stepan Ko

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostFri May 01, 2015 5:39 pm

So is the deckling 4k extreme 12g Is the only solution for this from BMD?
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Ryan Nguyen

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostMon Jun 08, 2015 8:06 pm

Dwaine,

Please verify that the Decklink 12G Extreme Pro is the only Decklink card that is available to do simultaneous 2160p/1080p output. I'm just about to buy one, and I desperately need to know if any of the the lower end Decklink cards are able to do so!
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Dwaine Maggart

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostMon Jun 08, 2015 10:55 pm

I am not the DeckLink expert. Tim Auld is. Who replied above.

But my reading of the web site specs page would indicate that the DeckLink 4K Pro card also has the ability to output UHD HD-SDI on output A and down converted HD HD-SDI on output B.
Dwaine Maggart
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Dmitry Kitsov BMD

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostTue Jun 09, 2015 12:10 am

At this time I would like to add that the current version of DaVInci Resolve (11.3.1) the Desktop Video Conversion setting is honored and there is a simultaneous output in UHD 3840x2160 to HDMI, SDI A and Fiber A with the 1920x1080p going to SDI B and Fiber B.
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Justin Stephenson

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Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostSun Nov 20, 2016 10:09 pm

Hello,

I am trying to set up simultaneous 4K and HD monitoring and wondered if anyone might have some input.

I do design and animation work for film and it has finally begun: all the new contracts I have are for 4K work. I'm investing in a small renderfarm and some equipment for 4K monitoring to deal.

The most important part of 4K monitoring for me will be to simply see all the pixels. I have an FSI OLED monitor for colour critical work.

I have put together a draft workflow (attached). I would go UHD out of my workstation into the Terenex Mini SDI>HDMI. I would apply a calibration LUT (Generated in Calman Studio with a perceptually matched whitepoint to the AM250 in Judd Modified) for an inexpensive HDMI 4K monitor, and take SDI the loop out for my colour critical HD monitor. The UHD SDI would be converted to HD using two BMD miniconverters: SDI to HDMI 4K converter to get to HD HDMI and then the HDMI to SDI converter. This would drive the FSI AM250.

My main question is, is there a better way to get from 6G 4K to HD than using two converters without having to step up to the Terenex Express?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

- Justin
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Justin Stephenson
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Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Brian Gordon

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostMon Nov 21, 2016 7:40 pm

When I needed a simultaneous UHD HDMI and 1080 SDI setup I went with the DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G. I am working in Premiere and will finish in a UHD timeline that can be downconverted via the Decklink software to 1080p via SDI to my FSI monitor while the HDMI UHD signal goes to my client monitor. I have found the downscaling to cause some edge roughness on graphics, but otherwise it's pretty good. Best of luck with your setup!
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostTue Nov 22, 2016 8:01 pm

Thanks. The smoothness of the picture is important to me. It looks like, without getting into a terenex express there is no real way to deal with 6g/12g sdi as it is unique to blackmagic. I wish they would come out with a UHD to HD mini terenx.

For now, I will set up the system without downconversion. When I want to look at UHD, I will simply stick to the UDH monitor.

I ended up going with a samsung UHD TV (UN40KU6300) as I've read of other suites using it, it is possible to turn off all their internal processing and it apparently calibrates very well. + it fits in the studio and I got a great "Black Friday" deal on it. I am ultimate looking at it for pixels and not color - that's what the FSI is for.
Justin Stephenson
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Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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JPOwens

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostWed Nov 23, 2016 5:58 am

Justin Stephenson wrote: I wish they would come out with a UHD to HD mini terenx.


Well, there is also the AJA 4K2HD.

jPo, CSI
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostWed Nov 23, 2016 6:04 am

My understanding is that 6G or 12G 4K single link is a BMD specific format and that the AJA box 4K2HD will take dual link or quadlink 3G but not the single stream 6G my BMD card outputs. Am I mistaken?
Justin Stephenson
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Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Dany Evans

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostWed Nov 23, 2016 11:49 am

I have buy a DL4K Extreme for that reason, but can't finde any settings to convert 4K to HD on SDI B output in Desktop Video (10.8.2). Is 4K to HD on DL 4K PRO only or where i have to config that?

Thanks a lot!
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JPOwens

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostWed Nov 23, 2016 5:28 pm

Justin Stephenson wrote:Am I mistaken?


My somewhat limited experience is that you may be correct. At least as far as the AJA box is concerned, it does require a Dual-Link HD-SDI source for 4K/UHD, so you do have to route both A and B SDI outputs from the Decklink to the 4K2HD converter. And select Dual Link output in your Resolve Display Settings.

It can become cumbersome. (Ain't that a lyrical phrase? Take that! Lin-Manuel Miranda...)

jPo
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostThu Nov 24, 2016 11:33 pm

Justin Stephenson wrote:My understanding is that 6G or 12G 4K single link is a BMD specific format and that the AJA box 4K2HD will take dual link or quadlink 3G but not the single stream 6G my BMD card outputs. Am I mistaken?


In some way it was at some point as SMPTE was very slow with spec announcement.

Currently, 6G or 12G is not a BM invention only. It's an SMPTE standard and expect AJA and there manufactures to announce more and more 6G/12G products. Standard has been just published, so development needs time. BM did not wait for a proper standard, they just made "something" and released before published standard. AJA and others waited for a proper standard be available first (which is more common/safe approach), so now they need to do catch up.
Problem with 6G/12G is that it already feels not very future proof, so this is another issue. PRO video industry is very behind "other technologies", specially things like mobile phones etc.

New Aja's products like https://www.aja.com/products/mini-converters/rovorx-sdi have 6G SDI support.

3G SDI is to slow for 4K and new high frame rates. Sending 4K 60p over 4x 3GSDI is very convoluted and this can only be 4:2:2.
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostTue Nov 29, 2016 3:46 am

Got it!

I am upgrading my card from the Decklink 4K SDI to the Decklink 4K Pro for the simultaneous UHD/HD outputs.

I imagine their hardware downconvert to HD is not fabulous, but workable?

- J
Justin Stephenson
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Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Erik Wittbusch

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostTue Nov 29, 2016 8:34 am

I think you'll need the 4k Extreme 12G which is a little more pricey!
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostTue Nov 29, 2016 2:20 pm

I just spoke with their customer service department. According to him neither card will simultaneously output 4K and HD.

Not always sure if the sales guys have the latest information.

The 4K pro spec states that the downconvert goes to output B. This would seem to indicate that the A would not have the down converted signal?

In any event. Does anyone have any experience with the 4K pro? Will it output simultaneous UHD and HD?

- J
Justin Stephenson
Moving Image Designer
http://justinstephenson.com
---------
Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostTue Nov 29, 2016 2:42 pm

Is this confirmed to function on the Decklink 4K pro card: SDI A carries unconverted UHD, SDI B carries downconverted HD?

Please let me know.

- J
Justin Stephenson
Moving Image Designer
http://justinstephenson.com
---------
Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostTue Nov 29, 2016 4:46 pm

I just heard from BMD Technical support. The agent said that if I am working in single link, It is possible to output HD on the SDI B while SDI A carries the UHD signal. He then pointed me to the spec page :-).

Ultra HD to HD Down Conversion

Built in, high quality hardware down converter outputs Ultra HD to HD or HD to SD down converted signal on SDI B. Down converted SD selectable between letterbox, anamorphic 16:9 and center cut 4:3 styles.


There's another thread that I started with the same question. I am going to cross post this finding.
Justin Stephenson
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Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostTue Dec 13, 2016 3:00 pm

I have it all up and running now. I'm using the Decklink 4K PRO and I have simultaneous 4K running to my Samsung KU6300 and 1080 to my FSI. Works super well. The down convert is selectable in the Desktop Video settings -it goes to SDI B. The 4K stream from SDI A goes to a Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI box and then to the TV.

Success.

Calibration is another issue. I will post a thread with my findings.
Justin Stephenson
Moving Image Designer
http://justinstephenson.com
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Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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jaysmith

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostFri Sep 29, 2017 11:44 pm

Just wanted to follow up with this, I also managed to get a simultaneous UHD feed through SDI and a 1080p downconversion to our flanders monitor and they all sync up nicely. This is with the Decklink 4k Pro. Couldn't have done it without the brave work of the people in this thread.

Thanks!
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Mike Blonde

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostWed Nov 15, 2017 11:59 pm

I'm currently in the process of doing exactly this.. need HD and occasional 4K output to a client/grading monitor (LG OLED B7), and an SDI HD downconvert to a separate monitor, or scopes (perhaps the Smartscope Duo 4K).

jaysmith / Justin Stephenson, any hangups you've had with the Decklink 4 Pro? I'm using a maxed 2017 iMac, and I plan to put it in a Sonnet Echo Express SE 1 PCIe expansion chassis, then run it through the Teranex SDI to HDMI box as described above. (For Resolve / Media Composer / After Effects and Premiere monitoring in 4k / HD)
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 12:30 am

Not sure about the mac setup as I use PC.

The downconvert to HD on the Decklink card is a bit sharp around the edges which leads to a "video-y" feel in HD on a few sources that I have ecountered - mostly animation materials. Other than that, this workflow works like a charm. I've been working with it all year without issue.
Justin Stephenson
Moving Image Designer
http://justinstephenson.com
---------
Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 12:33 am

Also, the Smartscope 4K is not compatible with a grading environment (if you do some digging on the board and LGG you will find much info). You are much much better off with a mac mini running scopebox...it is superbly useful and accurate.
Justin Stephenson
Moving Image Designer
http://justinstephenson.com
---------
Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Mike Blonde

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 4:33 am

Perfect, thanks for the follow-up. I'll look into the scopebox/mac mini combo.

I'm somewhat tempted to go with an integrated solution such as the Ultrastudio Extreme 3, but what you're describing is less than half the price, and I don't require the capture/deck control aspect. Does anyone know if the Decklink Extreme 4k 12G can simultaneously output 4K over HDMI and a 1080 downconvert via SDI? (And whether the HDMI port will Instant Lock like the Teranex units - I'm guessing not)
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Mike Blonde

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 5:30 pm

OK I've put together a little flowchart. Is there an easier/better way to do this?

Scope Setup.jpg
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 6:34 pm

I run the output of the Decklink into my FSI Monitor and then use the loop out to run scopebox. This way I don't need to get into splitters or DAs.

What are you using for your grading monitor?
Justin Stephenson
Moving Image Designer
http://justinstephenson.com
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Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Mike Blonde

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 8:15 pm

I'll be using an LG OLED55B7P for grading and client playback...
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 9:00 pm

Ah. What are your plans for calibration?
Justin Stephenson
Moving Image Designer
http://justinstephenson.com
---------
Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Mike Blonde

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 9:15 pm

Great question, haven't completely figured this out yet. Step 1 is to get the signal to the monitor.

I've heard these are pretty solid out of the box, and I'm using basic calibration settings as per Steve Yedlin's post here: http://www.yedlin.net/171030.html

But I imagine I'll end up using an iDisplayPro or similar to properly calibrate. Open to suggestions for best practices here..
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 10:14 pm

Out of the box, it will not be in spec - even if they say it is. The Yedlin settings will not be accurate for color critical work.

You'll want to get lightspace or calman with an i1D3. Get a version that allows you to do Resolve LUTs that you can load into your Teranex. The tricky thing will be to get an accurate spectrophotometer read on the monitor that you can use with your i1D3. You could use the generic offsets for WOLED which will be OK, but not ideal.

I've found that the main issue with TVs is that they have Auto Brightness Limiting (ABL) that can't be turned off, which makes them a challenge to calibrate. Calman compensates for this by allowing you to set an Average Brightness for your patches, which defeats the ABL. I belive that Lightspace is implementing this in a future version, too.

I have heard that a number of people have used the C7/B7 series in their suites. You might want to investigate at Lift Gamma Gain to see what people are doing, or see if Mixing Light has any tutorials on this.

If you're going to be grading on this TV, I would highly recommend calibrating it. There is a learning curve to calibration, but once you have it you can be confident all of your hard work is "correct".

The other alternative, if you're in a large market city, is to hire a calibrator to come by and do the setup, profiling and correction LUT for you. You'll have to do this at least a couple times a year as everything drifts.
Justin Stephenson
Moving Image Designer
http://justinstephenson.com
---------
Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Mike Blonde

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 10:32 pm

Very helpful, thanks! This warrants a bookmark.
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Justin Stephenson

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostFri Nov 17, 2017 2:00 pm

No problem. If you go with Lightspace, their support is the best I've ever seen - they will certainly get you up and running. I learned an enormous amount from them.
Justin Stephenson
Moving Image Designer
http://justinstephenson.com
---------
Config: Resolve Studio 14, Windows 10 Pro, 8c i7@4Ghz, 64GB Ram, Single GTX1080, NVMe Fast Storage, 10GigE Mass storage, Decklink 4K Pro, FSI AM250, Mini Panel, Scopebox.
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Smash Ashby

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Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostMon Nov 27, 2017 7:01 am

12G SDI -> 4 x 3G SDI running 4SI (as opposed to Quad split) - then duplicate one of your 3G SDI connections and you'll have a 2K Image. Lots of monitors can either scale 2K to HD, or alternatively do a centre cute
Smash Ashby
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