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Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:36 pm
by tobytomkins
Is it possible to monitor both 4k and 1080p concurrently with any of the new decklink models? Ideally I would like to monitor 4k over HDMI AND 1080p over SDI at the same time. Is this possible?

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:57 pm
by Tony Rivera
The outputs will not scale and just produce the same signal out as being ingested into the card. So if it's 1080 in, it's 1080 out. That's for both SDI and HDMI.

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:58 pm
by JPOwens
You are not alone.

Whether it is the hardware architecture or Desktop Video software, simultaneous 4K and HD output (even out of an application like Resolve, not necessarily ion an I/O situation), is not a feature.

There are a number of converters on the market that we have to hang off the output of the card, either directly or through one of the handy routers.

Specifically, I'm looking for a way to feed HDMI 4K to a client monitor while feeding HD-SDI 1080 to my Wavetek scope. Might be a mini-Teranex, there are very few 4K --> HD downconverters... there are a ton of ups.

jPo

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:05 am
by Tim Auld
Hi,

The DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G can output Ultra HD up to 30p on HDMI and down converted HD on SDI. Your SDI A will still carry Ultra HD and your SDI B will be the down converted HD stream. Conversions are only applied to SDI and analog (when selected).

This feature was enabled in Desktop Video 10.4 and you can select this option from the Conversions tab of the new utility.

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:52 pm
by tobytomkins
So with the 4K 12G this IS possible? Tony can you please confirm that Tim is correct? Thanks, Toby (-:

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:57 pm
by Tony Rivera
Tim is correct.

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:40 am
by Dwaine Maggart
My concern was if Resolve would over-ride the Desktop Video Conversions tab selection when changing Resolve monitoring resolutions or loading projects. Testing shows that does not happen, so this is a wonderful feature for people needing both UHD and HD simultaneously from Resolve.

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 4:51 pm
by Stepan Ko
Would this be possible with a Decklink Studio 4k and a Mini Converter UpDownCross? The idea is to power the uhd tv with a uhd hdmi signal from the decklink, and the sony pvm oled with the sdi through the mini converter. Would anyone from BMD be able to confirm this?

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:15 pm
by Dwaine Maggart
The Mini Converter UpDownCross does not have UHD support.

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:39 pm
by Stepan Ko
So is the deckling 4k extreme 12g Is the only solution for this from BMD?

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:06 pm
by Ryan Nguyen
Dwaine,

Please verify that the Decklink 12G Extreme Pro is the only Decklink card that is available to do simultaneous 2160p/1080p output. I'm just about to buy one, and I desperately need to know if any of the the lower end Decklink cards are able to do so!

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:55 pm
by Dwaine Maggart
I am not the DeckLink expert. Tim Auld is. Who replied above.

But my reading of the web site specs page would indicate that the DeckLink 4K Pro card also has the ability to output UHD HD-SDI on output A and down converted HD HD-SDI on output B.

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:10 am
by Dmitry Kitsov BMD
At this time I would like to add that the current version of DaVInci Resolve (11.3.1) the Desktop Video Conversion setting is honored and there is a simultaneous output in UHD 3840x2160 to HDMI, SDI A and Fiber A with the 1920x1080p going to SDI B and Fiber B.

Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:09 pm
by Justin Stephenson
Hello,

I am trying to set up simultaneous 4K and HD monitoring and wondered if anyone might have some input.

I do design and animation work for film and it has finally begun: all the new contracts I have are for 4K work. I'm investing in a small renderfarm and some equipment for 4K monitoring to deal.

The most important part of 4K monitoring for me will be to simply see all the pixels. I have an FSI OLED monitor for colour critical work.

I have put together a draft workflow (attached). I would go UHD out of my workstation into the Terenex Mini SDI>HDMI. I would apply a calibration LUT (Generated in Calman Studio with a perceptually matched whitepoint to the AM250 in Judd Modified) for an inexpensive HDMI 4K monitor, and take SDI the loop out for my colour critical HD monitor. The UHD SDI would be converted to HD using two BMD miniconverters: SDI to HDMI 4K converter to get to HD HDMI and then the HDMI to SDI converter. This would drive the FSI AM250.

My main question is, is there a better way to get from 6G 4K to HD than using two converters without having to step up to the Terenex Express?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

- Justin

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:40 pm
by Brian Gordon
When I needed a simultaneous UHD HDMI and 1080 SDI setup I went with the DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G. I am working in Premiere and will finish in a UHD timeline that can be downconverted via the Decklink software to 1080p via SDI to my FSI monitor while the HDMI UHD signal goes to my client monitor. I have found the downscaling to cause some edge roughness on graphics, but otherwise it's pretty good. Best of luck with your setup!

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:01 pm
by Justin Stephenson
Thanks. The smoothness of the picture is important to me. It looks like, without getting into a terenex express there is no real way to deal with 6g/12g sdi as it is unique to blackmagic. I wish they would come out with a UHD to HD mini terenx.

For now, I will set up the system without downconversion. When I want to look at UHD, I will simply stick to the UDH monitor.

I ended up going with a samsung UHD TV (UN40KU6300) as I've read of other suites using it, it is possible to turn off all their internal processing and it apparently calibrates very well. + it fits in the studio and I got a great "Black Friday" deal on it. I am ultimate looking at it for pixels and not color - that's what the FSI is for.

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:58 am
by JPOwens
Justin Stephenson wrote: I wish they would come out with a UHD to HD mini terenx.


Well, there is also the AJA 4K2HD.

jPo, CSI

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:04 am
by Justin Stephenson
My understanding is that 6G or 12G 4K single link is a BMD specific format and that the AJA box 4K2HD will take dual link or quadlink 3G but not the single stream 6G my BMD card outputs. Am I mistaken?

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:49 am
by Dany Evans
I have buy a DL4K Extreme for that reason, but can't finde any settings to convert 4K to HD on SDI B output in Desktop Video (10.8.2). Is 4K to HD on DL 4K PRO only or where i have to config that?

Thanks a lot!

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:28 pm
by JPOwens
Justin Stephenson wrote:Am I mistaken?


My somewhat limited experience is that you may be correct. At least as far as the AJA box is concerned, it does require a Dual-Link HD-SDI source for 4K/UHD, so you do have to route both A and B SDI outputs from the Decklink to the 4K2HD converter. And select Dual Link output in your Resolve Display Settings.

It can become cumbersome. (Ain't that a lyrical phrase? Take that! Lin-Manuel Miranda...)

jPo

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:33 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
Justin Stephenson wrote:My understanding is that 6G or 12G 4K single link is a BMD specific format and that the AJA box 4K2HD will take dual link or quadlink 3G but not the single stream 6G my BMD card outputs. Am I mistaken?


In some way it was at some point as SMPTE was very slow with spec announcement.

Currently, 6G or 12G is not a BM invention only. It's an SMPTE standard and expect AJA and there manufactures to announce more and more 6G/12G products. Standard has been just published, so development needs time. BM did not wait for a proper standard, they just made "something" and released before published standard. AJA and others waited for a proper standard be available first (which is more common/safe approach), so now they need to do catch up.
Problem with 6G/12G is that it already feels not very future proof, so this is another issue. PRO video industry is very behind "other technologies", specially things like mobile phones etc.

New Aja's products like https://www.aja.com/products/mini-converters/rovorx-sdi have 6G SDI support.

3G SDI is to slow for 4K and new high frame rates. Sending 4K 60p over 4x 3GSDI is very convoluted and this can only be 4:2:2.

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:46 am
by Justin Stephenson
Got it!

I am upgrading my card from the Decklink 4K SDI to the Decklink 4K Pro for the simultaneous UHD/HD outputs.

I imagine their hardware downconvert to HD is not fabulous, but workable?

- J

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:34 am
by Erik Wittbusch
I think you'll need the 4k Extreme 12G which is a little more pricey!

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:20 pm
by Justin Stephenson
I just spoke with their customer service department. According to him neither card will simultaneously output 4K and HD.

Not always sure if the sales guys have the latest information.

The 4K pro spec states that the downconvert goes to output B. This would seem to indicate that the A would not have the down converted signal?

In any event. Does anyone have any experience with the 4K pro? Will it output simultaneous UHD and HD?

- J

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:42 pm
by Justin Stephenson
Is this confirmed to function on the Decklink 4K pro card: SDI A carries unconverted UHD, SDI B carries downconverted HD?

Please let me know.

- J

Re: Monitor 4K and 1080p concurrently with new decklink

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:46 pm
by Justin Stephenson
I just heard from BMD Technical support. The agent said that if I am working in single link, It is possible to output HD on the SDI B while SDI A carries the UHD signal. He then pointed me to the spec page :-).

Ultra HD to HD Down Conversion

Built in, high quality hardware down converter outputs Ultra HD to HD or HD to SD down converted signal on SDI B. Down converted SD selectable between letterbox, anamorphic 16:9 and center cut 4:3 styles.


There's another thread that I started with the same question. I am going to cross post this finding.

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:00 pm
by Justin Stephenson
I have it all up and running now. I'm using the Decklink 4K PRO and I have simultaneous 4K running to my Samsung KU6300 and 1080 to my FSI. Works super well. The down convert is selectable in the Desktop Video settings -it goes to SDI B. The 4K stream from SDI A goes to a Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI box and then to the TV.

Success.

Calibration is another issue. I will post a thread with my findings.

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:44 pm
by jaysmith
Just wanted to follow up with this, I also managed to get a simultaneous UHD feed through SDI and a 1080p downconversion to our flanders monitor and they all sync up nicely. This is with the Decklink 4k Pro. Couldn't have done it without the brave work of the people in this thread.

Thanks!

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:59 pm
by Mike Blonde
I'm currently in the process of doing exactly this.. need HD and occasional 4K output to a client/grading monitor (LG OLED B7), and an SDI HD downconvert to a separate monitor, or scopes (perhaps the Smartscope Duo 4K).

jaysmith / Justin Stephenson, any hangups you've had with the Decklink 4 Pro? I'm using a maxed 2017 iMac, and I plan to put it in a Sonnet Echo Express SE 1 PCIe expansion chassis, then run it through the Teranex SDI to HDMI box as described above. (For Resolve / Media Composer / After Effects and Premiere monitoring in 4k / HD)

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:30 am
by Justin Stephenson
Not sure about the mac setup as I use PC.

The downconvert to HD on the Decklink card is a bit sharp around the edges which leads to a "video-y" feel in HD on a few sources that I have ecountered - mostly animation materials. Other than that, this workflow works like a charm. I've been working with it all year without issue.

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:33 am
by Justin Stephenson
Also, the Smartscope 4K is not compatible with a grading environment (if you do some digging on the board and LGG you will find much info). You are much much better off with a mac mini running scopebox...it is superbly useful and accurate.

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:33 am
by Mike Blonde
Perfect, thanks for the follow-up. I'll look into the scopebox/mac mini combo.

I'm somewhat tempted to go with an integrated solution such as the Ultrastudio Extreme 3, but what you're describing is less than half the price, and I don't require the capture/deck control aspect. Does anyone know if the Decklink Extreme 4k 12G can simultaneously output 4K over HDMI and a 1080 downconvert via SDI? (And whether the HDMI port will Instant Lock like the Teranex units - I'm guessing not)

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:30 pm
by Mike Blonde
OK I've put together a little flowchart. Is there an easier/better way to do this?

Scope Setup.jpg
Scope Setup.jpg (138.03 KiB) Viewed 22844 times

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:34 pm
by Justin Stephenson
I run the output of the Decklink into my FSI Monitor and then use the loop out to run scopebox. This way I don't need to get into splitters or DAs.

What are you using for your grading monitor?

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:15 pm
by Mike Blonde
I'll be using an LG OLED55B7P for grading and client playback...

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:00 pm
by Justin Stephenson
Ah. What are your plans for calibration?

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:15 pm
by Mike Blonde
Great question, haven't completely figured this out yet. Step 1 is to get the signal to the monitor.

I've heard these are pretty solid out of the box, and I'm using basic calibration settings as per Steve Yedlin's post here: http://www.yedlin.net/171030.html

But I imagine I'll end up using an iDisplayPro or similar to properly calibrate. Open to suggestions for best practices here..

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:14 pm
by Justin Stephenson
Out of the box, it will not be in spec - even if they say it is. The Yedlin settings will not be accurate for color critical work.

You'll want to get lightspace or calman with an i1D3. Get a version that allows you to do Resolve LUTs that you can load into your Teranex. The tricky thing will be to get an accurate spectrophotometer read on the monitor that you can use with your i1D3. You could use the generic offsets for WOLED which will be OK, but not ideal.

I've found that the main issue with TVs is that they have Auto Brightness Limiting (ABL) that can't be turned off, which makes them a challenge to calibrate. Calman compensates for this by allowing you to set an Average Brightness for your patches, which defeats the ABL. I belive that Lightspace is implementing this in a future version, too.

I have heard that a number of people have used the C7/B7 series in their suites. You might want to investigate at Lift Gamma Gain to see what people are doing, or see if Mixing Light has any tutorials on this.

If you're going to be grading on this TV, I would highly recommend calibrating it. There is a learning curve to calibration, but once you have it you can be confident all of your hard work is "correct".

The other alternative, if you're in a large market city, is to hire a calibrator to come by and do the setup, profiling and correction LUT for you. You'll have to do this at least a couple times a year as everything drifts.

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:32 pm
by Mike Blonde
Very helpful, thanks! This warrants a bookmark.

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:00 pm
by Justin Stephenson
No problem. If you go with Lightspace, their support is the best I've ever seen - they will certainly get you up and running. I learned an enormous amount from them.

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:01 am
by Smash Ashby
12G SDI -> 4 x 3G SDI running 4SI (as opposed to Quad split) - then duplicate one of your 3G SDI connections and you'll have a 2K Image. Lots of monitors can either scale 2K to HD, or alternatively do a centre cute

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:58 pm
by Felix Huerlimann
It seems that it works with Decklink 4K PRO, but this card isn't avaiable anymore. What about the actual Decklink cards 4K Extreme 12G and Studio 4K? Is there simultaenous HD and 4K monitoring possible (4K on HDMI and HD on SDI output)?
And what about the Decklink 4K Extreme 6G and the Decklink Studio 4K?

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:03 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
Just look at each card spec. It does say what it does in terms of processing. For example 4K Extreme 12G card:

Code: Select all
Processing

Ultra HD Down Conversion
Built in, high quality hardware down converter outputs Ultra HD to HD with down converted signal on SDI outputs C & D and HDMI output when connected to an HD only TV.

HD to SD Down Conversion
HD to SD with down converted signal on SDI output B, Component and Composite NTSC/PAL. SD output selectable between letterbox, anamorphic 16:9 and center cut 4:3.

When card has more than 1 output quite often it will do simultaneous HD or SD output (for UHD/HD input). When there is only one SDI output then it most likely won't do such a thing on HDMI only. It's then either original signal or downconverter one (on both SDI and HDMI). HDMI is in most cases not counted as 2nd output (it's rather always "linked" to main SDI or downconverted SDI output).

Only few latest top end models can do UHD and downconverter HD at the same time.

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:19 pm
by syntheticcinema
Hello all,

I've got a Decklink Extreme 12g running HDMI to a UHD TV & down-converted HD to our FSI monitor. It works nicely and maintains sync unlike the Intensity Extreme it replaced.

I have been experimenting with connecting a third HD monitor via component, but haven't been able to get it to work in Resolve. I set analog downscaling to on. I've been trying different settings and so far, the only way I've managed to get all three to turn on is to set monitoring to 1080 in Resolve, which essentially center-extracts the UHD project and outputs to all three displays.

I'll post if I find an answer, but figured I'd check to see if someone had already tackled this problem.

Thanks,
-Colin

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:43 pm
by JPOwens
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:When there is only one SDI output then it most likely won't do such a thing on HDMI only


When you bump up into UHD, HD-SDI has to go to Dual Link, so you need more than one output spigot. Its back to how many bits you can cram down the wire.... HDMI 2.0. and what comes next.

jPo, CSI

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:23 am
by doafilms
I wanted to throw in my two cents on this as I've been racking my brain over it for days and just now got it work with the simplest and dumbest of all solutions... unplug it and plug it back in. My card is housed in a thunderbolt 2 chassis. My goal was to pipe out a 1080p image via SDI B after checking the down-convert UHD to HD option in the Desktop Video app (all mentioned previously). It indeed worked for a 1080p SDI signal. But the HDMI never sent out a signal and I was starting to become convinced that it was broken.

We have a Ultrastudio 4K as well that I KNEW the HDMI was working so I tried that - still no signal. Then, with the HDMI plugged in, I decided to pull the power to the US4K and plug it back in, and after initializing I had signal! So I scratched my head, plugged the HDMI back into the 12G Extreme, pulled the power and plugged it back in AND IT WORKED.

Maybe this is old news to other folks but for some reason these cards don't seem to initialize to HDMI unless it's already plugged in when powered on. So now I have that sweet sweet 1080p signal coming out of SDI 2, and 4K HDMI coming out of the card into a HDMI splitter which then runs to a LGC8 and a 4K Sony projector. Plus I also get system audio out of that HDMI running through our receiver.

So if anyone else is stuck - just try turning it off and then back on again :lol:

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:47 pm
by Jack Swart
The now discontinued Decklink 4K Pro has two SDI outputs.

If the timeline is set to UHD, the card can be set to output 1080 on one SDI and 2160 on the other.

In my setup 1080 goes to my BVM 230 Sony grade A monitor and 2160 goes to the BMD 4K SmartView Scopes and 4k SmartView Monitor.

Works a treat.

Re: Simultaeous HD and 4K monitoring

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:37 pm
by kjmass1
Is it possible to monitor UHD over HDMI with a HD downconvert over SDI B with the DNxIQ box? When I select HD cross conversion I get a 720p output that is quite delayed. Is it possible to get 1920x1080 as well?