Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

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noveltyfriend

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Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Mar 01, 2013 4:41 pm

I'm using Da Vinci Resolve lite on Mac OS x. I'm using final cut pro 7 to edit. I don't have any problems with the video in Da Vinci, but after I spent hours tweaking and dialing in the color and contrast, the video I rendered with the finalcut pro export preset, quicktime 422 (HQ), looks far darker and more contrasty than in DaVanci. The rendered files look so bad, that I'd rather use the uncorrected raw footage than what Da Vinci gave me. Don't get me wrong, it looks great in Da Vinci, just not after it's been rendered.
I have opened the rendered files in Final Cut Pro, quicktime and imported them back into Da Vinci and it's not a display setting issue, the rendered files are actually much darker than the original footage I corrected when compared side by side in Da Vinci.

I have tried rendering in multiple formats and can not seem to find a way to keep the quality and range of the video when exporting/rendering from Da Vinci. Any suggestions?
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Mar 01, 2013 4:49 pm

video range vs full range display and rendering issue seems to me.

If you do a DPX/tiff AND a QT as render, do they look alike in a computer monitor?
which are the setting in your video monitoring?
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noveltyfriend

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Mar 01, 2013 7:46 pm

The Tifs look great, just like the video in DaVinci. Many of the other formats I don't have software that supports the codec.
I have the new macbook pro with Retina display. I have it set on the "best (retina)" but changing to 1680x1050 doesn't make any difference with the issue I'm having.
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noveltyfriend

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostSat Mar 02, 2013 12:57 am

This is a screen shot of the video DaVinci gives me when rendered as a quicktime pro res 422 (HQ):

Image


This is a Tiff of the same footage in Davinci before rendering:
Image
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noveltyfriend

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostSat Mar 02, 2013 1:45 am

Turns out the presets on the "roundtrip to final cut pro" are wrong. The "set to video or data level" needs to be on "Normally scaled legal video" instead of auto or unscaled.
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Elabuelo

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostSat Mar 02, 2013 3:35 pm

I have similar problem.

I left the color om system preferemces to lcd. That did not fix the problem perfect. But its not that much tah you show on your pics.

An i uses my retina on the maximun allow for apple 1900 just for Resolv. An sometime i used the full 2880 but you need to hack your retina. The retina recomended forom apple is 1440, resolv do not suport that resolution.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostMon Mar 04, 2013 11:17 pm

I do not believe that the "retina" has anything top do with it. Is a video vs full range scaling issue.

you are seeing about 15% more contrast, very evident in the blacks of your picture.

So, if your tiff file looks correct, I assume you're doing a 422 encoded Quicktime file with full range instead of video range and that is your issue.

How your setting for the monitoring in the color correction environment you have? Do you use your internal monitor or you use an external monitor for the grade? How they are connected?

can you do a screen shot of your settings and your render option you are using?
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Shane Oconnor

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Mar 22, 2013 12:58 am

I've run into the same issue as well in a film that I am coloring. I changed my settings to normally scaled legal video, which helped a bit, but it is still not where it needs to be. Any ideas?

What I see in Resolve
Image

What I get rendered out at ProRes422
Image

Settings
http://imgur.com/tZCX6Sz
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William Hobson

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Mar 22, 2013 2:15 pm

Try playing the ProRes in another player, a la VLC or something similar and see how it looks. Quicktime Player has a gamma shift issue with QT encoded movies that could potentially be what you seeing in your above comparison.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Mar 22, 2013 6:28 pm

Shaneoconnor1 wrote:I've run into the same issue as well in a film that I am coloring. I changed my settings to normally scaled legal video, which helped a bit, but it is still not where it needs to be. Any ideas?

What I see in Resolve
Image

What I get rendered out at ProRes422
Image

Settings
http://imgur.com/tZCX6Sz


In exporter setting change levels to Full and don't trust Resolve with levels as it's 50/50 that they will be correct :)
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Shane Oconnor

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostSat Mar 23, 2013 1:58 am

William Hobson wrote:Try playing the ProRes in another player, a la VLC or something similar and see how it looks. Quicktime Player has a gamma shift issue with QT encoded movies that could potentially be what you seeing in your above comparison.


Yea I've been aware of the issue before with QT shifting things.

Image

Here's VLC on the left QT on the right. Though the VLC is close its still not 100%

There is still a slight shift from it being in the browns in resolve to more of a greenish hue when played in VLC. Shadows are still off a bit.
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostSat Mar 23, 2013 10:23 am

IMHO the whole color thing from different applications, players, I/O cards, TVs and computer screens is a huge mess in the moment. To many variables in the game and no way to make sure, everyone has the same viewing experience.

VLC alone ha as a ton of settings that can make or break a picture and don't get me into talking about quicktime.
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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostSat Mar 23, 2013 11:44 am

Frank Glencairn wrote:IMHO the whole color thing from different applications, players, I/O cards, TVs and computer screens is a huge mess in the moment. To many variables in the game and no way to make sure, everyone has the same viewing experience.

+1
It's bad for audio too. Just have to aim for a system that translates well and/or leads you to make good decisions. A proper monitoring environment is often not easy, especially on a budget.
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John Tissavary

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostSat Mar 23, 2013 3:10 pm

I'm just going on record to state that Quicktime is, possibly, the worst thing to happen to professional post production that I can think of.

I can't count the dozens, probably hundreds of hours I've wasted noodling around with gamma, re-exporting with 'adjustments', stripping gamma bits from quicktime files, downloading different players, etc...

This problem isn't limited to Resolve, it's every application. As soon as quicktime comes into the workflow there is instant uncertainty of the outcome.

And, to top it all off, there is no guarantee, once you've exported to QuickTime, that an end-user isn't going to view it in the 'wrong' application and get completely buggered colorspace / gamma.

I vote that quicktime be banished from post production. Except Prores 4444, that can stay :) Argh!

JT
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Shane Oconnor

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostSun Mar 24, 2013 5:27 am

John Tissavary wrote:I'm just going on record to state that Quicktime is, possibly, the worst thing to happen to professional post production that I can think of.

I can't count the dozens, probably hundreds of hours I've wasted noodling around with gamma, re-exporting with 'adjustments', stripping gamma bits from quicktime files, downloading different players, etc...

This problem isn't limited to Resolve, it's every application. As soon as quicktime comes into the workflow there is instant uncertainty of the outcome.

And, to top it all off, there is no guarantee, once you've exported to QuickTime, that an end-user isn't going to view it in the 'wrong' application and get completely buggered colorspace / gamma.

I vote that quicktime be banished from post production. Except Prores 4444, that can stay :) Argh!

JT


In your experience do you have any one method that yielded you slightly consistent results, rather that tweaking things one a time.

Any idea if changing the decoder for the RED files defualt color space of REDcolor3 to REC 709 might help? Any Any anything along those lines to get a better idea of what QT is going to spit back out at me?
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostMon Mar 25, 2013 4:34 pm

In your experience do you have any one method that yielded you slightly consistent results, rather that tweaking things one a time.


DO NOT USE QUICKTIME. Period.

We only use file sequence: DPX/Tiff/EXR. 100% accuracy all the times.
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ericp

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostSun Aug 18, 2013 4:49 am

Hey, I really think there's something broken in DaVinci's QT output.

I was able to get an h264 QT to look almost exactly like the image in the DaVinci interface as follows (this is not an elegant solution):

1. Render an EXR sequence
2. Read into Nuke (using non-default 1.8 gamma)
3. Write from Nuke to QuickTime h264 (using default 1.8 gamma)

This creates a Quicktime that plays in Quicktime player without the darkness and contrast described above - it almost exactly matches the expected result and is great for sending out for review.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostMon Aug 19, 2013 7:52 pm

ericp wrote:Hey, I really think there's something broken in DaVinci's QT output.

I was able to get an h264 QT to look almost exactly like the image in the DaVinci interface as follows (this is not an elegant solution):

1. Render an EXR sequence
2. Read into Nuke (using non-default 1.8 gamma)
3. Write from Nuke to QuickTime h264 (using default 1.8 gamma)

This creates a Quicktime that plays in Quicktime player without the darkness and contrast described above - it almost exactly matches the expected result and is great for sending out for review.


....

Are you in a mac?
Is your monitor environment setup with a weird ICC 1.7 gamma profile?
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Markus Magnon

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Jun 03, 2016 2:59 pm

Hello. Have the same problem: "Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker"

I'm on Win7 using Davinci Resolve 12.
Here is a screenshot with the problem:
http://monostep.org/temp/resolve4.jpg

The "uncompresed / original" file looks the same in:

- Premiere / AE
- Media Player Classic / VLC Player / Quicktime
- Davinci Resolve Timeline

But when i render the file in Davinci... as "uncompresed YUV, or uncompressed RGB, or mpeg4, or whatever" .. the final image allways looks darker and contrasty than the original. (i opened the rendered file in Media Player Classic, VLC and Adobe AE)

I've checked "Data / Video levels" in the project settings. And also in the render settings.
Its not on "auto". Its on "Data" and "Video" (see screenhot for comparison). The image is not
scaled. Its Full HD 1080p.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Jun 03, 2016 7:54 pm

What if you import exported files back to Resolve and compare all there (against your source)?
If you see difference than it's simply Resolve bug.
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Markus Magnon

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Jun 03, 2016 10:15 pm

I imported the exported file file back into Resolve.
Here is a screenshot of it. Split Screen in Timeline:

http://monostep.org/temp/resolve5.jpg

As you can see... teh rendered video file looks diffferent to the original
file. I don't know why. I rendered the file as "video" and "data" file.
I tried uncompressed YUV, RGB, uncompressed AVI / MOV.
mpeg4, etc..
it allways looks like this.
Should i downgrade to "Resolve 11" or... i don't know how to fix it.
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Markus Magnon

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostSat Jun 04, 2016 4:16 pm

I've rendered some tif sequenze out of Resolve. And the colors looks perfect!
No "crushed" colors. Ony when i render uncompressed avi, mov, mpeg4, whatever..
the colors are crushed.

BTW. I've got that "Quicktime missing" Window when i start resolve. I tried everything (re-installed quicktime Pro) to fix it. But i had no luck. Is it important? Causes that the problem when rendering
videos out of Resolve? How can i fix that? (re-install doesn't help)

I also tried an older Version. Resolve 11. And its the same problem.
"crushed colors" when rendering video files. Perfect colors when renndering tiffs.
Resolve 11 also says: "Quicktime decoder initialization failure"
So what can/should i do?
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David Skok

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostWed Jun 28, 2017 10:31 pm

HERE IS THE SOLUTION:

I have also spent hours researching how to fix the problem of Resolve displaying my clips too dark, and with too much contrast. However after nearly tearing my hair out in frustration, I found the solution on BMCUser forum.

"Something else i can think of is how are you interpreting the footage? In the edit tab in Resolve right click on your footage and go to 'clip attributes'. You should see a section under the video tab called levels and three options: auto, data and video. On default it's set to auto, try setting it to data and click ok. If the footage you've just changed is loaded in the viewer you should see the blacks/shadows raise, and you can confirm that with the scopes in the color tab. From there you should fix shadows and then output using data levels."

It turns out that this magically solved the entire problem, and saves the need to go through an extremely complex and painful set of steps to calibrate the viewer. Simply select all clips in the Media Manager and set the Clip Attributes to "Data" or Full. Then when exporting using the Deliver page, in the advanced section, for Data Levels to Full, and your Quicktime or MP4 H.264 movies will finally match what every other software program shows in the way of color, gamma and contrast.

Also Note the following:

Project settings/Color Management as follows:

"Use Mac Display Color Profile for viewers" Checked.

Timeline Color Space: Rec.709 Gamma 2.2 (not the default of Gamma 2.4).

Your Resolve viewer will now show your video clips looking exactly the same as Final Cut Pro, Quicktime, etc.

- David Skok
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Tom Fuldner

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Mar 01, 2019 5:15 am

David,

Working with DR15 and hoping you might share a new protocol to ensure matching.

Not finding 'Use mac Display Color Profile for viewers" check box; "data" is not an option under clip attributes.

And info appreciated.

Tom
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Uli Plank

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Mar 01, 2019 5:48 am

It's called "Full" under "Data Levels" in the attributes.

The setting for "Use Mac Display Color" is in the system preferences under "General" now.
Maybe AI can help you. Or make you obsolete.

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Mario Kalogjera

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Mar 01, 2019 6:41 am

I also find the default gamma 2.4 wrong as my resolve DCPs turn out a bit different from imported footage. It assumes you are grading on a natively 2.4 gamma display and takes that into account when exporting.

As for data levels in video, while it is most common that studio levels are used for delivery, it is normal that cameras use data levels to take advantage of full bit space, a bit more dynamic range.



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Marc Wielage

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Mar 01, 2019 11:03 am

I find it amazing that years later, people still ask about this.

Two comments:

1) whenever in doubt, render out a second or so of color bars at the very head of the project and check those on reliable scopes. If the bars are right, the picture will be right; if the picture is wrong, the bars will reflect the bad settings.

2) read up on Color Management...

https://jonnyelwyn.co.uk/film-and-video ... o-editors/
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Uli Plank

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Mar 01, 2019 11:09 am

It is not normal that cameras deliver full range (aka data level).
It is a rare exception that some of them exceed video levels on the top by storing so-called superwhites, which you can pull back into legal range for some extra detail in the highlights. Some Sonys are among them.
Maybe AI can help you. Or make you obsolete.

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Black Rooster Pictures

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Re: Rendered video looks more contrasty and darker

PostFri Apr 19, 2019 12:00 am

Hey guys.

I'm having same issue on 15.2.3.015, and I found out it is directly related to the Color Management settings on your project.
In my case, I had "DaVinci YRGB Color Managed" activated under Project Settings in order to properly convert my V-Log to Rec.709. All clips are color-consistent on my timeline, but whe I export using DNx or CineForm or even Uncompressed (QT), all media looks washed out whe I import it back to Resolve for comparison.
I have the "Full" ('Data' in previous versions) box activated for all clips in Media Pool and also on the Export settings.

If I dont let Resolve manage my color, the problem does not exist at all, and all media looks consistent across all players and on DaVinci Viewer. (as long as I use a non destructive codec for export offcourse).

I dont understand the roots of the issue tbh, but I know for a fact that it can be related to projects with Resolve Color Mgmt. activated, and I thouth it could be helpful for some of you that spent hours trying to isolate the variables to solve this. :)

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