Power of Cineform

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Power of Cineform

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 7:28 pm

Just accidentally found out that Adobe has implemented Cineform quite well in Premiere (this is 2015 version and up I assume)

Watch video below knowing that tests clips are made from URSA 4.6K DNG source and they are (keeping 4.6K resolution):
-Cineform 444 2.2Gbits/sec
-ProRes 444 1.6GBit/sec

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Sgc ... HBtYy1GVm8

Each layer has 50% opacity (there are also 2 file sources for each codec)

1. Full resolution preview is killing my machine for both streams, which is as expected. Even single layer of 4.6K is way to much for my system (although ProRes seams to be bit more responsive).
2. Half resolution makes Cineform case better (but still not workable), and about the same for ProRes.
3. 1/4 resolution makes things interesting- Cineform preview works in realtime and these are 3x4.6K streams! ProRes the same- still just a slideshow :)
1/8 again- Cineform works in realtime, ProRes the same.

Explanation can be only one (99% sure). Adobe has properly implemented Cineform decoder. Looks like their resolution switch is linked to Cineform decoder which has ability to decode in smaller resolution due to fact that Cineform is wavelet based. So far this lower resolution preview was only available through Cineform directshow decoder in players like WMP, MPC-HC. Looks like Adobe has done a proper job and this gives huge possibilities. When it comes to editing 1/4 res is totally workable (for source 4K files). This is great feature, as there is no need to waste time to create proxy files, etc- they are already there, we just need to change resolution setting :)

In case of ProRes this is not possible as Premiere always decodes it at full resolution. For DCT based codecs lower resolution decoding is way more tricky- I think FCPX does it for ProRes. Decoding itself is killing my machine regardless of what is happening later and at what preview resolution.

I wish for such a Cineform support in Resolve (including RAW and Resolve debayering for CF RAW)! It could be even linked to debayer resolution, so it not only changes debayer setting but also decoding. It would make 4K files easily editable and workable in Resolve.

Now quiz question- what is my machine spec?
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Power of Cineform

PostMon Apr 03, 2017 9:47 am

Answer is: dual core i5 Macbook Pro.

Adobe confirmed that this is the case- their preview resolution switch is link to Cineform decoder, so they've done a proper job.
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Al Spaeth

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Re: Power of Cineform

PostSun Apr 09, 2017 12:36 pm

Great post Andrew - thanks.

4k editing on a 2 core i5 should be impossible.
BM should add that Cineform implementation to Optimized Media.
4k h.264 > Resolve > Optimize to Cineform AVI > Edit > Output Cineform AVI > convert to h.264 mp4
would be the ideal workflow for me - and it would avoid the h.264 Resolve output quality problems as discussed in another thread.

Al
Resolve 15.3 free Win 10 64bit
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Power of Cineform

PostSun Apr 09, 2017 12:56 pm

It's not just single stream 4K editing, but 4 layers of 4K editing with 50% opacity on each layer!

AVI is not good (no standard way of storing: timecode, aspect, field order, color tagging). You rather want MOV or MXF.
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Al Spaeth

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Re: Power of Cineform

PostSun Apr 09, 2017 1:53 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:It's not just single stream 4K editing, but 4 layers of 4K editing with 50% opacity on each layer!

AVI is not good (no standard way of storing: timecode, aspect, field order, color tagging). You rather want MOV or MXF.


Even More amazing - do you think performance would be similar on a Win 10 4 core i5or as good as your Macbook?
thanks for the AVI tip.
Resolve 15.3 free Win 10 64bit
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Power of Cineform

PostSun Apr 09, 2017 5:35 pm

Yes, it's all provided by Cinform decoder, not really Premiere.
Premiere just properly links preview resolution switch to Cineform internal resolution switch.
Don't see a reason why would it work differently on PC- it's the same code provided by Cineform. It more depends on Premiere engine itself- if PC is as good as Mac version which I think it's not. I think Premiere on Mac has some performance edge, but in this case it should not make real difference.

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