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Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:04 pm
by giak04
Hello, If you do not have time to read the whole post, please skip to the parts in bold at the end. This is going to be a bit long, sorry for that, and for the noobie questions. On the bright side I am really eager to learn. :)

I'd like to get more serious about post-production. I want to learn more and buy some gear with that aim in mind. My budget is around 2000/2500 Euro for computer and monitor/s. I am ok with working only in 1080p, it would be maybe nice to start working in 10bits.

Actually my laptop is decent: MacBook Pro Retina (mid 2012), Quad-Core 2.6 GHz up to 3.6 GHz w/ TurboBoost, 16GB ram. I worked with that until now. The big problem is the graphic card. I read about solutions to use gtx models (1070, 1080...) on MacBook's. They don't seem ideal, and the performance of the graphic card seems to drop significantly (40-60%).

So I think I got 2 options, what do you suggest I go for?

Option 1: Using my old laptop with a new graphic card. This way I would have some money for new lenses and grading monitors. The big question is how performant my laptop would be with a new graphic card. Other question: would I be able to work in 10 bits? How? What do I need for it to work? Decklink device?

Option 2: Everything new. I have a friend who can help me assembling a computer rig from scratch. I know more or less what I need in terms of power, and I guess that I should be able to build something decent to work in 1080p/10 bits for around 1500-2000 Euro (excluding monitor/s), maybe buying some used parts too. If you have good tips about a good computer configuration for that price range, please let me know!

Here come the very noobie questions. Do I need the Decklink Mini Monitor or some other Decklink device? What is a Decklink for? I searched everywhere but I didn't find a clear answer. Why can't a gtx 1080, for example, output a 10 bit signal directly to a monitor? Or it can, and the Decklink is for working on 2-3 monitors? I know I am very confused...

Monitor options (in order of preference):

Eizo CS240: 500 Euro (used +-2800 hours)
Eizo CS2420: 630 Euro (new) or 530 Euro (used)
Benq SW2700PT: 400 Euro (new/outlet)
DELL UltraSharp U2410f (maybe as a second monitor?): 150 Euro (used)

What would you choose and why? I still don't know whether to work with 1 or 2 monitors for a start, and if I need a Decklink for that, or if I need a Decklink also to work with 1 monitor. Please clarify the whole Decklink thing for me, I would really appreciate your help. :)

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:01 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
2.5K Euro just for HD should be possible even with monitor. It should give you very smooth HD experience.

There is other similar thread and I suggested something like this:

i7 8700K overclocked with good cooling
GTX 1080 8GB (or maybe 1070/1060 6GB if this is just for HD)
32GB good RAM
3 or 4x 4TB HDD in RAID 0 (don't forget backup source files)
decent (e.g. Samsung PRO) SSD for system drive

In UK such a system is about 2K£, so some money left for monitor.

Monitor is tricky bit. Dell/BenQ is not the same league as Eizo. I worked on Dell, HP, NEC- from cheap models to high-end and for me Eizo always stands out (NEC is also good).

What is good about Eizo is that those better models have support for video signals and good HDMI support (10bit, black level controls etc). They also support 24fps, 25fps, 50i etc, so if you want to use them as full screen preview they are good. Saying this all better Dell models also have this now. Look for HD resolution (not some 2.5K one) to get nice pixel to pixel HD on 24inch. It's good when monitor has 1:1 pixels preview in case of bigger resolution panels.
I would say it all depends what is your end target. If your project end up mainly on youtube I would not go crazy with monitor. If you do also for broadcast etc then good monitoring I more important. Maybe you can even think about semi decent TV- you need to do good research which ones are close to REc.709 and easy to "calibrate".

Monitoring itself: get yourself cheap BM card for preview which will give you accurate preview and 10bit. Then use 2nd cheap monitor for GUI. Resolve GUI preview is "problematic".

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:22 pm
by Jack Fairley
The function of the Decklink/Ultrastudio devices is to send a video signal from Resolve to a calibrated reference monitor, at exactly the format you set in the options. That monitor is not seen as a second or third monitor by the OS, it only receives video from the BMD card. I consider using an output card and the best monitor you can get your hands on a requirement for color work, and the same has been said before by people with way more work under their belt than myself.

With current technology, it would be possible for BMD to rewrite the monitoring in Resolve to send a clean 10-bit signal from a graphics card, but I would not hold your breath waiting for them to do that so they can stop selling a product line!

The build Andrew posted is awesome for HD, everything except NR should play full speed no problem.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:23 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
Maybe 16GB of RAM is enough?
Make sure motherboard has PCI-E x16 and 2nd simultaneous x8 (or minimum x4) slot.

I'm doing simple things on Quad 2.7 i7 Macbook Pro 2016 with 16GB RAM and Radeon Pro 455 2GB. Recently done some 3K timeline, ProRes source and all was fine. Mentioned system should fly with HD, maybe it's even bit overkill (depending on source type though).

Definitely get BM card for preview and 2 monitors (or TV)- GUI and for video preview.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:53 pm
by giak04
Thank you so much!! Now everything is much more clear :)
I just found a new Eizo CS240 for just 300 Euro, so unless you tell me that there are significant downsides compared to the newer CS2420, I will go with that.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:54 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
It should be good.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:17 am
by giak04
So... Here is what I thought to buy so far:

Mid-Tower: Cooler Master Masterbox 5 (€66)
Mobo: Asus Z170-P (€106)
CPU: i7-8700k (€340)
RAM: 2x16GB Kingston ValueRAM DDR4 2400MHz (€354)
GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1080 (€700)
SSD: 240GB Kingston SSDNow UV400 (€95) - a computer technician told me it should last longer than a Samsung EVO
HDD: WD 8TB SATA 6Gb/s 256MB 7200 rpm (€340)
Cooler: Cooler Master Masterliquid Lite 120 (€46)
PSU: Cooler Master MasterWatt 750W (€81)

Total: €2128

Doubts and questions:
1. I will probably go for a Mini Monitor + Eizo CS240 for grading. Would a 32" 4k monitor be suitable for GUI? I like the size because I don't have a tv at home. I found an amazing occasion for a BENQ PV3200PT (500 Euro almost new). Would a 4k GUI monitor impact Resolve's performance too badly (in comparison to a Full HD one) with my current setup?
2. Will a mid-tower do for now, or shall I invest in a full tower, more powerful PSU, better cooling? I am already over my budget, so I might have to cut on something else.
3. 1x 8TB HDD will do for now in terms of space, but I don't know how it will impact speed (no RAID 0 planned at the moment). It should still be fast (6Gb/s 256MB 7200 rpm, instead of 128MB). Is it fine or shall I go for 2x 4TB 128MB in RAID 0?
4. Will this setup handle simple 4k workflow in Resolve?
5. Would you buy anything different?

Thank you again for your invaluable help. It's very difficult to make these choices by myself since I have very little experience.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:14 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
1. Not sure- should be fine. UHD would give you a lot of space.
2. Should be fine. You don't need better PSU at all. 750W is plenty enough for your setup.
3. 1x HDD will do e.g. steady 150MB/sec so ProRes UHD should work. Anything bigger/lighter compression need more speed. Maybe it's better to get 2x 4TB and make RAID0.
4. Yes, definitely.
5. Not sure about motherboard- it runs 1x 16x and 2nd slot is only x4. Would prefer x16 and x8 (Z170 supports 20 PCI-Express lanes+16 from CPU). Some better motherboards do it if I'm correct. Make sure RAM is from the motherboard manufacturer approved list.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:30 pm
by Scott Smith
I would say that if you are a hobbyist/newbie, you aren't going to be doing studio setups where you need the inputs for your computer and you aren't going to be super critical at color grading with perfectly calibrated monitors. When your level of expertise reaches that point, you can upgrade. So you don't really need deck-link products right now. Just use your computer's graphics card - though you might appreciate buying a good graphics card, for the extra processing power. So I wouldrecommend put your money into a good, fast computer and hard drive space. (And/or your camera and glass.) High end monitoring is something you can do down the road, if you think you need it.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:42 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
Yes, I would agree, but Resolve GUI preview is "problematic", specially on Mac where it seems to live its own life :) Not sure about Windows.
If I were to use e.g. Scratch then I would not bother with card at all.
You may get used BM Mini Monitor for 100 Euro, so this is not that huge money and properly timed (in terms of refresh rate) and accurate preview is nice to have.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:22 pm
by Jack Fairley
That motherboard will not work with 8700K anyway, you need a Z370 chipset.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:58 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
Ups, author needs to research better. These are key things :)

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:24 pm
by giak04
Thank you for your answers and help!

Actually a computer technician of a shop here in Groningen told me I needed that motherboard for the i7-8700k. It's my bad that I didn't double check which i7 generations it supports. Luckily I didn't buy it yet.

I do indeed need to do more research and to speak with more people. Anyway, your help is very important to me at this point, since I haven't found yet here in Groningen somebody who has experience with putting together a computer for video editing with the characteristics I am going for. Most computer shops here work for either families or gamers. I will be more careful in the future :)

If by any chance any of you wants to suggest me exactly which motherboard I should go for, that would be very appreciated. I still have to understand if it is possible to get a motherboard with thunderbolt and if that's worth it. I also have to get better insights on how well the PCI-E's work simultaneously in the various Z370 models, and what is the best configuration (which PCI-E for which hardware).

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:53 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
You can use for example this website:

https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/computer ... erclocked/

they choose components and have experience in building, so we can "steal" some of their knowledge :)

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:07 pm
by Dan Sherman
giak04 wrote:If by any chance any of you wants to suggest me exactly which motherboard I should go for, that would be very appreciated.


The best way to determine this, is to go to the actual motherboard manufactures website, and see what they say is supported.

for example ASUS does it like this:
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PR ... pDesk_CPU/
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PR ... pDesk_QVL/

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:29 pm
by giak04
Super useful websites, thank you!

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:34 pm
by giak04
I just wanted you to let you know what I bought at the end, since it might be useful information for others that visit this thread in the near future.

Mid-Tower: Fractal Design Define R5 (€120) - I think the price lowered recently since the new R6 came out; it's designed very smartly, since you can really adapt it to your needs, it's very sturdy, nice simple design, and it has a great temperature/noise ratio.
Mobo: Asus Prime Z370-A (€190) - Asus seems the most reliable and this mobo is inexpensive compared to others while providing above average performance and very similar connections to more expensive options; it has 2 16x PCI-E at 16x, and 1 extra 16x at max 4x.
CPU: i7-8700k (€370) - obviously.
RAM: 2x8GB Crucial DDR4 2666MHz (€168) - I read Crucial is reliable; I thought to wait for the prices to be less crazy than now to get 32GB.
GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1060 Aorus rev 2 (€420) - Waiting for the prices to go down for a 1080 Ti, in the meantime working with full HD seems pretty flawless with the gtx 1060; the 3 fans should make it a bit more silent in theory (more fans=less RPM); decently priced for the performance (good OC); still I would have bought a cheaper one if available.
SSD: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2 (€120) - amazingly fast, it loads win10 in few seconds, I am very happy with it, it seems worth the 30€ extra compared to the 860 EVO.
HDD: 2x 3TB SATA 6Gb/s 64MB 7200 rpm in RAID 0 (€142) - cheapest option per GB I could find between 2TB and 4TB HDDs, and I read that Toshiba should be more reliable than hipper brands like Seagate or WD; anyway it's always a lottery with HDDs.
CPU-Cooler: be quite! Dark Rock Pro 3 (€83) - super happy with it! Very very quite and I am getting great temperatures when the CPU is idle (21-23 celsius) or stressed (77-80 celsius); my room temp is around 18-19 celsius; great value for the money compared to more expensive water cooling solutions.
1x extra fan: be quite! Pure Wings 2 (€12) - unfortunately the Define R5 comes with only 2 fans, while an extra fan on the front makes quite a difference.
PSU: be quite! Pure Power 10 600W CM (€80) - not the cheapest option, but very quiet, very efficient (80 plus silver), and the 600W should still be enough for when I upgrade to the 1080 ti.

Total: €1800 (including €75 Euro for assembling, €20 for the RAID 0 configuration and €15 Euro of sending costs); I bought everything online at Alternate, which here in the Netherlands has the best prices I could find for pretty much all the single components.

I could have saved some money on the case, PSU and cooling maybe, but by buying better components I am expecting them to last longer. Also I couldn't stand the idea of buying a cheap plastic case for this expensive machine. I read that air cooling should last longer than water cooling generally speaking, and I did extensive research on the durability of each of the components I chose.

I am very very happy so far. Thank you everybody for your help. I learned a lot.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:14 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
Sounds good- not overdone and should be good value of money.
Are you running overcloked or stock CPU speed?

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:58 pm
by Dan Sherman
giak04 wrote:GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1060 Aorus rev 2 (€420) - Waiting for the prices to go down for a 1080 Ti, in the meantime working with full HD seems pretty flawless with the gtx 1060; the 3 fans should make it a bit more silent in theory (more fans=less RPM); decently priced for the performance (good OC); still I would have bought a cheaper one if available.


Hold off if you can, the 20 series is rumored to be coming in the next few months.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:31 pm
by Jack Fairley
giak04 wrote:I could have saved some money on the case, PSU and cooling maybe, but by buying better components I am expecting them to last longer.


Saving money on a PSU sounds like a good idea until the first time something gets cooked by one. Glad it's working out for you.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:03 am
by giak04
@Andrew: I think the technicians at Alternate tuned it a bit. Right now it is overclocking at 4.9GHz (1.4v). It might also be one of the auto overclocking settings of the motherboard. I admit my ignorance. I have used only a Macbook Pro for the past 5 years, so I never got into overclocking or anything like that. Like (I guess) pretty much all Apple-only users, I used to turn my computer on and that was it. I honestly don't know whether I should look for some guide online, try to update the BIOS and then overclock manually, or if it is better to hire a technician to do this job. I am a bit afraid of ruining the CPU if I do it myself. Also, right now I don't need crazy overclocking, and my temperatures seem okey; on the other hand I am pretty sure that with good manual tuning I would reach better temperatures, which would help the CPU to last longer.

@Dan: That's great to know, thanks!

@Jack: Yeah, I agree. I was surprised that all local stores suggested me cheaper components, and especially cheaper coolers (that anyway in their shops costed more than what I chose). Getting a cheap-ish cooler with the 8700k doesn't make any sense at all, it would be a great bottleneck or even worse it would fry the CPU. Totally true that many people seem to underestimate the importance of a good PSU as well. Again, no personal experience, but that's what I got from what I read.

Re: Hobbyist hardware configuration (noobie looking for help

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:50 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
Overclocking with pre-defined motherboard setting is "fairly" safe. If you don't go crazy it should be fine. 8700K definitely has potential to run higher than stock clock. Just don't go crazy :D