UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

Do you have questions about Desktop Video, Converters, Routers and Monitoring?
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Juan Ugarriza

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UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostFri Mar 09, 2018 5:04 pm

Hello everyone:

I just get a UltraStudio 4K Extreme TB3. No problems so far outputting HDR PQ vía HDMI from DaVinci Resolve 14.3, even metadata travels nicely.

Unfortunately, no luck at all with Final Cut Pro X 10.4. Apple software can output signal SDR throught Ultrastudio, but seems HDR is not working. I know that the AJA Io 4K Plus works right with HDR and FCPX, but no with Resolve, so is not a solution for me.

Any thoughts about this issue?

Thank you very much.

Juan
http://www.finalcutpro.es
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostSat Mar 10, 2018 2:12 pm

BM card can do it, but host software has to request it. Maybe FCP X doesn't support it yet.
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Juan Ugarriza

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostSat Mar 10, 2018 5:48 pm

Thank you Andrew.

We are waiting the answer from Apple. In the meantime, a BMD word would be appreciated.
http://www.finalcutpro.es
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Clayton Von Isaacs

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostThu Mar 15, 2018 2:26 am

yeah BM stuff only works with other BM stuff. Will not work with Final Cut
Clayton Von Isaacs
daydreamersproductions.com
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Erik Wittbusch

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostThu Mar 15, 2018 6:25 am

HDR is nothing special, just different tone mapping. You can even use a cheap Ultra Studio Mini Monitor with HD res timline and HDR color space. But you'll need a monitor with manual HDR override.

If FCPX can output HDR PQ then there should be no problem.
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Juan Ugarriza

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostThu Mar 15, 2018 10:06 am

Clayton Von Isaacs wrote:yeah BM stuff only works with other BM stuff. Will not work with Final Cut


BMD hardware works fine for me with both Apple FCPX & Autodesk Smoke in SDR. I hope HDR issue is just a matter of time to fix, maybe a new Desktop Video update coming soon. :roll:

Erik Wittbusch wrote:But you'll need a monitor with manual HDR override. If FCPX can output HDR PQ then there should be no problem.


So, you are saying is just a lack metadata over HDMI output? That works with AJA, but I will try again to force the monitor, a Panasonic TV, actually. First time, the video signal was very weird, very different of Resolve output.

Thank you.
http://www.finalcutpro.es
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostThu Mar 15, 2018 10:52 am

You can also insert one of the HDFury boxes in the HDMI chain to inject HDR metadata and auto trigger TV to HDR mode.
Most HDR TVs don't have manual HDR switch (Panasonic models have and I think some Sony?)
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Juan Ugarriza

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostThu Mar 15, 2018 4:19 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Panasonic models have and I think some Sony?


I think you can force it in this particular Panasonic TV. I will try it as soon as I can.
http://www.finalcutpro.es
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Jerry Hatfield

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostMon Apr 09, 2018 1:25 pm

I've looked at the cards that do 4K and support HDR and only the 8K card supports BT2020. All others support only BT601 and BT709. With that stated, how are you guys getting accurate BT2020 HDR out to monitor when the output is BT709?
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostMon Apr 09, 2018 2:10 pm

If you use HDMI then it should be fine. I assume video will be properly converted using Rec.2020 math, specially in Resolve. You can use cheap Mini Monitor 4K for this. Not sure about SDI, but maybe it's just a lack of info on product page. Many people are using 4K Extreme 12G model, so it has to work fine even product page doesn't say Rec.2020.
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Jerry Hatfield

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostMon Apr 09, 2018 4:41 pm

I can only go on product information. If the 8K card has it listed as supporting BT2020, so should all devices that really do support it. I've sent an email to support to get a definitive answer.
No telling how long that will take with NAB going on. It would take hours at the booth.

PS: I just noticed on the B&H site that it does list BT2020 as supported. The problem being is I will be working with HLG BT2020/2100 and that requires an HDMI 2.0b. So, at this point it looks as the only card that will work for me is the Kona 4.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostMon Apr 09, 2018 10:09 pm

I think Resolve should also flag HDMI for HLG. This whole Rec.2020 info is bit misleading. This is only important if you send RGB data to BM card and it has to convert it to YUV before it's send over HDMI. I think in case of Resolve data is prepared on GPU and send to BM card in correct format to be pushed as is over HDMI to TV. Other part of HDMI signal is just metadata which describes this video data, so TV knows how and what to do with it. This is definitely supported on some BM cards. There are many people using 4K Extreme with OLED TVs or Sony BVM, so it has to work fine.
You can send Rec.2020 data even over very old card- as long as you prepare it up front (e.g. of proper RGB to YUV conversion if needed) and can force you receiver to treat it this way. Problem is when you can't force your receiver and metadata which travels with video data is saying that it's Rec.709. This can happen on SDI when your card has on Rec.2020 support and your receiver strictly relies on SDI metadata.
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Jerry Hatfield

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostTue Apr 10, 2018 1:12 pm

The beauty of HLG is that no metadata is involved. If HLG is present, the playback monitor or TV, either sees it or it doesn't. It is also backwards compatible with HD HDR. This flavor of HDR is for broadcast and was developed by NHK and BBC, specifically for broadcast.

So, I'm thinking the card will work. I had a nice response from support yesterday and it is feasible that the card will work. I use Edius and I'm currently awaiting a reply from Japan as to the viability of the 4K Mini Monitor with HLG and Edius. Once a favorable report comes in....out comes the wallet.

Andrew, thanks for your comments. They have helped me ask better questions of both BM and GV.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostTue Apr 10, 2018 2:19 pm

You need to wait for Edius 9.2 update as older one doesn't properly talk to BM card to force HDR mode on HDMI. There are quite few improvements to HDR in Edius in 9.2, not sure if monitoring over BM is also improved.
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Jerry Hatfield

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostWed Apr 11, 2018 1:34 am

Due to NDA I can't say much, but suffice it to say...I'm very familiar with 9.2.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: UltraStudio 4K Extreme, HDR & FCPX

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 5:35 pm

Based on latest info (https://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=41778), Edius 9.2 still does not inject HDR signalling on HDMI (on BM cards) so you can't use it with TVs which don't have ability to manually force HDR mode (which is most HDR TVs atm.).
It's still not added- quite disappointing, specially when GV "shouted" already with Edius 9 that it has FULL HDR workflow.

There is also incorrect info there.
HLG doesn't need static or dynamic metadata, but you do need and there is a flag on HDMI to tell TV that incoming signal is HLG. It's not up to user to every time switch to SDR, HDR10, HLG etc- this should be flagged on HDMI and every HDR TV will switch itself accordingly (otherwise whole switching would be tedious).

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