Matching footage

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darrylcalvert

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Matching footage

PostSun Jan 13, 2019 1:37 pm

Is there a way to match footage from a canon C300 mk ii with footage from Ursa Mini Pro?, by which I mean that they look the same aesthetically rather than splicing. We shoot a 2 camera set up with A cam as C300 mk ii and B cam Ursa Mini Pro and cannot seem to make them look the same. any help greatly appreciated. Cheers
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Matching footage

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 8:18 am

an experinced artist should be able to get to a reasonable match quickly
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darrylcalvert

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Re: Matching footage

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 1:06 pm

Dermot Shane wrote:an experinced artist should be able to get to a reasonable match quickly



So you do not know how then? clearly you are just attention seeking because you offer NO HELP..... Rube.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Matching footage

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 4:20 pm

You are looking for a better answer? Learn color grading!
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Matching footage

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 7:12 pm

darrylcalvert wrote:
Dermot Shane wrote:an experinced artist should be able to get to a reasonable match quickly



So you do not know how then? clearly you are just attention seeking because you offer NO HELP..... Rube.


kinda funny really... but no, my name is not Rube.... and yea i do have a clue how to match camera's ;-)

i'd think starting by watch Baselight's excelent tutorials on the subject would be a decent place to begin as the concepts and ideas are also valid in Resolve, although the names of tools are diffrent;
https://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/products/t ... iew_tl.php

This video covers two topics: traditional grading workflows, and the challenges faced with modern digital image acquisition and digital colour reproduction.

So that we can view modern workflows in the right context, Daniele Siragusano first describes the behaviour and limits of different traditional workflows when grading an image. He then goes on to explain the new challenges we face when mixing different cameras and different display technologies, so that we can understand how modern colour management concepts - like ACES and Truelight Colour Spaces - can provide an answer.


ACES is your friend on this file, as is a reasonable amount of seat time gradeing, haveing access to Baselight makes matching faster in my hands for sure, but i've got some worthwhile resualts in Resolve as well
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JPOwens

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Re: Matching footage

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 12:39 am

darrylcalvert wrote:make them look the same


Do you mean ... beyond whites are white, blacks are black and common elements are the same color? Resolve does have a kind of auto-match that might serve as a starting point. It's discussed in the manual. Mileage will vary, of course.

In the end, though, the main challenge will be trying to match "optics". The light path through the glass landing on the image sensor will have different physics and this will be apparent mostly because of differences between the lenses in use on the two cameras. This goes well beyond colorspace and value matrixing. It is why there is more than one kind of lens and many kinds of cameras and not just because the numbers coming out the back end can be modified to resemble each other. The math around *aperture* is immutable.

jPo, CSI
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darrylcalvert

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Re: Matching footage

PostFri Feb 08, 2019 9:28 am

Uli Plank wrote:You are looking for a better answer? Learn color grading!


plank by name plank by nature, clearly you are a rude self important unhelpful attention seeker with only the capacity to hinder rather than help. if you have nothing constructive or helpful to offer please feel free to not respond at all in any way......
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darrylcalvert

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Re: Matching footage

PostFri Feb 08, 2019 9:32 am

Dermot Shane wrote:
darrylcalvert wrote:
Dermot Shane wrote:an experinced artist should be able to get to a reasonable match quickly



So you do not know how then? clearly you are just attention seeking because you offer NO HELP..... Rube.


kinda funny really... but no, my name is not Rube.... and yea i do have a clue how to match camera's ;-)

i'd think starting by watch Baselight's excelent tutorials on the subject would be a decent place to begin as the concepts and ideas are also valid in Resolve, although the names of tools are diffrent;
https://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/products/t ... iew_tl.php

This video covers two topics: traditional grading workflows, and the challenges faced with modern digital image acquisition and digital colour reproduction.

So that we can view modern workflows in the right context, Daniele Siragusano first describes the behaviour and limits of different traditional workflows when grading an image. He then goes on to explain the new challenges we face when mixing different cameras and different display technologies, so that we can understand how modern colour management concepts - like ACES and Truelight Colour Spaces - can provide an answer.


ACES is your friend on this file, as is a reasonable amount of seat time grading, having access to Baselight makes matching faster in my hands for sure, but i've got some worthwhile results in Resolve as well


Thank you, now that is helpful, I apologise for the barb but it just feels like not many folk on here are willing to help out a novice such as myself and it is like if they help me I might take food off their tables or something, I am quite far from being employable in film and I need all the help I can get, Ironically the question I posed about matching footage from two different cameras, in this case a C300 mk ii and an ursa mini pro, was not for myself but for a friend who is learning editing...... but thank you Dermot appreciate the help.
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darrylcalvert

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Re: Matching footage

PostFri Feb 08, 2019 9:38 am

JPOwens wrote:
darrylcalvert wrote:make them look the same


Do you mean ... beyond whites are white, blacks are black and common elements are the same color? Resolve does have a kind of auto-match that might serve as a starting point. It's discussed in the manual. Mileage will vary, of course.

In the end, though, the main challenge will be trying to match "optics". The light path through the glass landing on the image sensor will have different physics and this will be apparent mostly because of differences between the lenses in use on the two cameras. This goes well beyond colorspace and value matrixing. It is why there is more than one kind of lens and many kinds of cameras and not just because the numbers coming out the back end can be modified to resemble each other. The math around *aperture* is immutable.

jPo, CSI



Thank you JPo I get that it is about optics and bodies as well but I will try out the resolve auto match as you suggest, it has now turned into a three camera shoot, C300 mk ii, Ursa Mini Pro and Sony A7r ii so it will be interesting and challenging. Appreciate the input, thanks. DC
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JPOwens

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Re: Matching footage

PostFri Feb 08, 2019 6:24 pm

darrylcalvert wrote:a three camera shoot, C300 mk ii, Ursa Mini Pro and Sony A7r


Understanding that with that mix, there is obviously a different set of circumstances in play. For me, a "three camera shoot" means three identical cameras, and even that doesn't work all the time. I work in series drama/comedy.

A customer brought me a sequence in the mid '00s (two cameras, not a "two-camera" shoot) -- one was a BVW-30 Betacam and the other was a DV Handycam. They were interviewer/subject on a revolution of the London Eye. It did not go well. I could make them the same color, but nothing else.

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Peter Cave

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Re: Matching footage

PostSat Feb 09, 2019 12:41 pm

I just finished a reality series with a LOT of different cameras and the Sony A7r was impossible to match to other bigger Sony cameras due to sensor differences and a completely different rendering of shadows. I managed to get close, or an impression of 'sameness' but not a good match. It's not always possible to get exactly the same look from different cameras, especially when using Drones, consumer cameras and pro 'Cinema' cameras on the same shoot. The only way I have had a close match in this situation is when charts were shot for every camera setup, and that's quite rare in a fast paced shooting environment.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Matching footage

PostSun Feb 10, 2019 1:32 am

And even with charts, it will be a lot of work, there is nothing automatic.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Matching footage

PostMon Feb 11, 2019 12:34 pm

This Indian guy is explaining the problems pretty well:
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JPOwens

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Re: Matching footage

PostMon Feb 11, 2019 11:04 pm

Uli Plank wrote:This Indian guy is explaining the problems pretty well:


Nothing like a little bit of frankness.

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Uli Plank

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Re: Matching footage

PostTue Feb 12, 2019 7:25 am

Well, the OP thought I was too frank before ;-)
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Peter Cave

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Re: Matching footage

PostMon Feb 18, 2019 10:12 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Well, the OP thought I was too frank before ;-)


Actually the OP said you were more plank than frank. :lol:
Some people think this forum is a film school.
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JPOwens

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Re: Matching footage

PostWed Feb 20, 2019 5:10 pm

Peter Cave wrote:Some people think this forum is a film school.


Should be a bit more prepared then to occasionally get 'schooled'.

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Marc Wielage

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Re: Matching footage

PostSat Feb 23, 2019 3:09 am

Matching cameras can be hard and there is no easy way. You just have to roll up your sleeves, learn the knobs, understand the scopes, get a feel for what the picture needs to be, and do the work. An automatic knob won't do it, and in fact can sometimes make things worse.

Still frames help. Once you match Camera A to Camera B, typically you can use the basic setup and apply that to all the shots from that camera... until they change locations and/or lighting.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood

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