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@BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:18 pm
by JeffreyWalther
Hello BMD,

I do not understand the high price on that new DaVinci Keyboard and I hope you can explain me (or us) why this particular hardware is as expansive as a Pocket 4K.

I don't get it. :shock:
I think the keyboard is overprized for a couple of more buttons.
If the keyboard and the micro panel were combined, I could understand that price point. But this is only a keyboard.

Thank you.

Jeff

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:38 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
This is the price for free Resolve.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:56 pm
by JeffreyWalther
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:This is the price for free Resolve.

I already own the Studio version. I do not need any "hidden" licenses.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:05 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
This is irony. BM has to make money somehow. Nothing is free these days- never forget about it :D

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:08 pm
by MishaEngel
It's produced in small quantities.

When you make money with Resolve and you can work a lot faster than it is money well spend, when you Resolve for hobby it's just cost.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:21 pm
by JeffreyWalther
MishaEngel wrote:It's produced in small quantities.

When you make money with Resolve and you can work a lot faster than it is money well spend, when you Resolve for hobby it's just cost.



Well... you also could buy a ShuttlePRO v2 and assign those additional buttons by your own for a fraction of the keyboard price.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:55 pm
by Xtreemtec
Full aluminium housing, high quality rotary jog wheel that is presumable optical. otherwise it would not draw so much power as said in the video..

But indeed $1000 for a keyboard were every chinese company can push a keyboard for $2 dollars..

Difference is hardware, design, look, materials, i guess even the key's used.. Don't expect a foil keypad behind those buttons. But real tacticle buttons. ;)

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:57 pm
by MishaEngel
JeffreyWalther wrote:
MishaEngel wrote:It's produced in small quantities.

When you make money with Resolve and you can work a lot faster than it is money well spend, when you Resolve for hobby it's just cost.



Well... you also could buy a ShuttlePRO v2 and assign those additional buttons by your own for a fraction of the keyboard price.


No one is stopping you going that path.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:21 pm
by JeffreyWalther
MishaEngel wrote:
JeffreyWalther wrote:
MishaEngel wrote:It's produced in small quantities.

When you make money with Resolve and you can work a lot faster than it is money well spend, when you Resolve for hobby it's just cost.



Well... you also could buy a ShuttlePRO v2 and assign those additional buttons by your own for a fraction of the keyboard price.


No one is stopping you going that path.


Well, I do, others as well.
But my questions still has not been answered yet. What makes this aluminium housing with a few buttons so expansive?

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:24 pm
by Pavel Lavrov
Xtreemtec wrote:Full aluminium housing, high quality rotary jog wheel that is presumable optical. otherwise it would not draw so much power as said in the video..

But indeed $1000 for a keyboard were every chinese company can push a keyboard for $2 dollars..

Difference is hardware, design, look, materials, i guess even the key's used.. Don't expect a foil keypad behind those buttons. But real tacticle buttons. ;)


Are you saying optical encoder is needs a lot of power?
It shouldn't. (They did mention some kind of mechanical clutch on a jog wheel, presumably for different modes...)

Also I don't think I saw anything about keys being backlit...

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:34 pm
by Dan Sherman
JeffreyWalther wrote:Well, I do, others as well.
But my questions still has not been answered yet. What makes this aluminium housing with a few buttons so expansive?


As has already been mentioned, its that expensive for several reason.

  1. It's going to be produced in much smaller quantities than your typical keyboard. Thus the design, engineering, and tooling costs are going to be much higher per unit.
  2. high end switches like from Cherry (a German company) are not cheap
  3. it has an aluminum top plate, and form the shape, it looks like it has to be machined out a solid chunk of aluminum (not cheap as you have a lot of waste), compared to some other aluminum keyboards that are formed out of aluminum sheet.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:36 pm
by JPOwens
Probably anything with a limited run is going to come with a premium price -- and as explained by G. Petty, the aim consumer demographic for this product is in the bulk-production sector. The extremely-short turnaround, high output producer where every click costs money, the way grade suites went for $5 a minute (average) up to 5 or 6 times that for premium service. Right Marc, Walter?

Also, steel and aluminium tariffs.

jPo, CSI

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:53 am
by Chris Chiasson
That keyboard is bad ###, but way too expensive. I get it's meant for people who are editing every day, but still $1000 is a bit overpriced for something that's optional, but not necessary. Maybe at $500 I'd consider getting it. But $1000 for a keyboard just is too high of a price for me to swallow. Again, maybe for those editing everyday as their job in a studio. Sadly not for anyone outside that. Because I’d love to own it. But it’s not necessary enough. I can use what I already own.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:20 am
by Jack Fairley
JPOwens wrote:The extremely-short turnaround, high output producer where every click costs money, the way grade suites went for $5 a minute (average) up to 5 or 6 times that for premium service. Right Marc, Walter?

The same people buying the $30,000 panel because it's faster can probably also buy the $1000 keyboard :D

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:20 am
by RCModelReviews
Jack Fairley wrote:The same people buying the $30,000 panel because it's faster can probably also buy the $1000 keyboard :D

You nailed it. If you think this keyboard is too expensive then you're obviously not part of the target market.

From a business perspective... it's not what it costs that matters but what it's worth.

If this keyboard saved you (say) just one hour per week... how long would it take to pay for itself?

In the case of a busy studio I'd say not long, not long at all.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:38 am
by Peter Benson
...And that costly keyboard lacks backlit keys -- (and with user-variable brightness adjustment)? Wow. That proposition is not Grant Petty'esque at all, IMHO.
[Re]Pete

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:13 am
by Peter Benson
JeffreyWalther wrote:
MishaEngel wrote:It's produced in small quantities.

When you make money with Resolve and you can work a lot faster than it is money well spend, when you Resolve for hobby it's just cost.



Well... you also could buy a ShuttlePRO v2 and assign those additional buttons by your own for a fraction of the keyboard price.
Yeppers. My thought exactly -- and buy a handsome, sturdily built gamer's keyboard like Corsair K70 Mkii or similar, with mechanical action, backlit keys, with Macro buttons (which might well even be mappable to DR functions).
[Re]Pete

ResolveStudio | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Corsair K70 | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:13 pm
by Xtreemtec
It's like the iPhone X. It looks cool, Everyone wants to have it, but it is pricey as hell.
You can still go for the Samsung galaxy 4 or iPhone 4 which cost significant less..
But hey it does not have the features you want, it does not have the looks you want.. :)

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:18 am
by Marc Wielage
Jack Fairley wrote:The same people buying the $30,000 panel because it's faster can probably also buy the $1000 keyboard :D

That's a valid point. I kept track of all our hours last year, and when we got the Advanced Panel in April, I made notes on how my hours were for one of our main clients. By my calculations, I realized that we saved anywhere from 10%-15% on every project simply because I had direct buttons to get to certain features. In a typical 10-hour day, that's about 90 minutes, so we wound up almost being able to get 6 days of work out of 5 days. Adding up the time, the panel paid for itself in 6 months.

As I said on another group, the Editor Keyboard is pretty close to the design of the old Sony BKE-9400:

Image

That cost around $2500 back in the 1990s and nobody even blinked an eye at it. I bet they sold thousands of them (as did CMX and GVG with similar keyboard/jog panels). Was it expensive? Sure. Did editors save time? Absolutely. If you do 200 edits a day, and it saves you 10% of your time, the keyboard will pay for itself in a few months. Is it necessary to get the keyboard? No -- you have the freedom to use whatever keyboard or accessory macro panel you want. There are also some accessory jog/shuttle panels out there (like the X-Keys XK68) that can kind of do jog/shuttling, to a point. (Skipper Martin did a good YouTube tutorial on how he got it to work on a Mac Resolve system.)

To me, it's all a question of giving people choices on how they want to work. More options are better. If you can't justify the expense, don't buy it. Nobody's forcing you to buy it. For a busy post house, particularly ones with dozens of rooms and multiple editors working around the clock, it would make sense. For one guy cutting an occasional YouTube or wedding video, it might not make sense.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:49 am
by Clayton Von Isaacs
Why? WHY? Why the Hell not. Hell I am getting one. That thing is a dream.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:57 pm
by Howard Roll
The Fastest Editing Physically Possible! :lol:

Nice to see the marketing department hasn't missed a beat. Offer it in mahogany, carbon fibre, or walnut and the 1000 bucks is a no brainer.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:56 pm
by Clayton Von Isaacs
Howard Roll wrote:The Fastest Editing Physically Possible! :lol:

Nice to see the marketing department hasn't missed a beat. Offer it in mahogany, carbon fibre, or walnut and the 1000 bucks is a no brainer.

No way. That would make it look like an old 70's VCR. I don't want to go back to those days Image

Keep it all metal. Although carbon fibre would be cool.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:16 pm
by JPOwens
RCModelReviews wrote:From a business perspective... it's not what it costs that matters but what it's worth.


There is a Wilde-ism that goes something like: "A fool knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

I'm also not kidding about the steel and aluminium tariffs. Adds 25% to the purchase price. So, people who are noodling the idea of $500 - $750 aren't far off the punitive value that the current American administration is inflicting on trade.

Interesting that Marc illustrates a Sony keyboard (which I sold a few of) -- while I worked a short stint for that company, as Sales Reps and Managers came to appreciate, the prefix "BK" really stood for *profit center" because those items had margin. You could either pad out a sweet deal for the company or present a sweeter one to the buyer, just massage the quote.

jPo, CSI

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:07 pm
by berzerker
Has anyone actually tried the shuttle pro 2? Does Davinci let you assign the same things the keyboard will. Or is it locked like the tangent desks.

Thanks

JeffreyWalther wrote:
MishaEngel wrote:It's produced in small quantities.

When you make money with Resolve and you can work a lot faster than it is money well spend, when you Resolve for hobby it's just cost.



Well... you also could buy a ShuttlePRO v2 and assign those additional buttons by your own for a fraction of the keyboard price.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:41 am
by Marc Wielage
Clayton Von Isaacs wrote:No way. That would make it look like an old 70's VCR. I don't want to go back to those days Image

Ooooh, if you have a Quasar Great Time Machine, I'll take it for $20 + shipping (working or not)! Very nostalgic.

JPOwens wrote:Interesting that Marc illustrates a Sony keyboard (which I sold a few of) -- while I worked a short stint for that company, as Sales Reps and Managers came to appreciate, the prefix "BK" really stood for *profit center" because those items had margin. You could either pad out a sweet deal for the company or present a sweeter one to the buyer, just massage the quote.

Hey, am I far off from the $2500 price on the Sony BKE Keyboard? A friend of mine who did own a very similar GVG keyboard was positive that was the price, but we don't have the old pricelists to know for certain.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:07 pm
by Clayton Von Isaacs
Marc Wielage wrote:
Clayton Von Isaacs wrote:No way. That would make it look like an old 70's VCR. I don't want to go back to those days Image

Ooooh, if you have a Quasar Great Time Machine, I'll take it for $20 + shipping (working or not)! Very nostalgic.

That picture is from it's eBay page. Someone has one up for sale on there.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:14 am
by Peter Cave
The keyboards used with old linear editing controllers were mostly supplied as a standard part of the system. CMX, Ampex, Sony, Grass Valley etc, made keyboards with dedicated buttons and controls, which made regular keyboards almost unusable on these systems. It was extremely rare to buy one of these keyboards as a stand alone unit, which is why they were very expensive. Editing systems back then were low volume, high margin sales due to limited demand and high development costs.

Those shuttle/jog wheels on the keyboard are not a simple device and will add a considerable cost.
IMO a jog wheel on the right is less useful on mouse driven software than a left hand controller like the Contour Shuttle or Lightworks controller.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:24 pm
by Henchman
People clearly don't understand the price of high quality made, ment to last, component replaceable products.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:59 pm
by Peter Benson
Marc Wielage wrote:As I said on another group, the Editor Keyboard is pretty close to the design of the old Sony BKE-9400:

Image

That [Sony BKE-9400] cost around $2500 back in the 1990s To me, it's all a question of giving people choices on how they want to work. More options are better...


Woah! One of those rare moments this writer has observed M.W.'s embrace of respect for varied preferences among different types of DR users, re: controller hardware choices!

Kudos to Marc.
Now, off to placing an order at https://posttools.tachyon-consulting.co ... 16fd43adaa for cost-effective, comprehensive speedy access, visual feedback and control of Resolve 16 functions at the behest of @Glenn Venghaus -- that awesome DaVinci Resolve forum contributor.


[Re]Pete
P.S. Glenn, please contact me ASAP

ResolveStudio | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | iMac 27" hosting Resolve 16 beta on Mojave is pending

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:40 am
by Jeff Brass
I think the thing people are struggling with is it looks like a keyboard...where as in fact it is an edit controller, which enables and allows significant increase in speed and usability over a traditional keyboard and mouse etc.
That may be worth something to you...or it may not.

When I started with a Tangent wave for grading, it didn't allow any more functions then my keyboard and mouse already gave me ... but it gave me dedicated, quick and precise access to those functions, ease of use, and a much faster turn around of work. That was worth the expense of the Tangent. Paid for itself in no time.

If I could save an hour a week on the edit page with the BMD "keyboard" then the US$1000 would be recovered fairly soon.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:45 am
by Jeff Brass
Peter Benson wrote:Now, off to placing an order at https://posttools.tachyon-consulting.co ... 16fd43adaa for cost-effective, comprehensive speedy access, visual feedback and control of Resolve 16 functions at the behest of @Glenn Venghaus -- that awesome DaVinci Resolve forum contributor and disruptor of a programming genius.



ResolveStudio | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | more...



thats not going to be much use for your editing....not just because its for Mac only and you are on windows......

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:30 pm
by Glenn Venghaus
Jeff Brass wrote:thats not going to be much use for your editing....not just because its for Mac only and you are on windows......


Depends...
If you are on windows you are out of luck absolutely no support and never will . I despise windows :mrgreen:

Other then that, my controller is focused on doing stuff that can NOT be easily or at all done with a typical keyboard shortcuts like most editing functions as would be a waste of my time and design efford and anyone with a button box or keyboard can do that themselves.

Also true it is focused and originated on the color page as that is typicaly where you need a controller as non of these things can be keyboard driven.

But i do support the edit page where it counts. One of the smoothest source/timeline window JOGs around (no crappy keyboard presses, but proper smooth jog) And after looking at the BMD keyboard and a user tip, just extended it to the CUT page and switchable between the super fast mini timeline scroll and the viewer scroll. (will drop a video showing this coming weekend likely).
CUT page is new for me as well , so will see what else usefull i can put in there before final release.
Then (so far) unique to my controllers, automapped control of edit page (and FL page) inspector tab content, incl OFX, audio plugins, edit sizing, cropping etc.
Also in edit page as a bonus a full HUI mixer with volumes/pan/mute/solo/rec enable/solo resets
Then some standard navigational controls between markers, clips, etc

So its still and will remain primary color focused but over the years has become a little handy edit/fairlight page companion.

If you are a pure professional editor , go for the new BM keyboard i would say, a great and focused piece of high quality kit.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:02 pm
by Peter Benson
Jeff Brass wrote:As for APC40 Resolve Edition (-PB edit) thats not going to be much use for your editing....not just because its for Mac only and you are on windows......


Why *not*? Sounds like you've not sufficiently investigated that APC40 controller solution, advancing such a warning. Your good intention is very much appreciated though.

Suppose Color Page, Edit Page, Cut Page and other functions like audio sweetening, mixing, mastering and even animation -- all on a pending OSX Mojave iMac setup is in the planning stages here, for an exciting, new workflow paradigm with various awesome controllers without the curse of Micro$haft (sic)?

Redmond is unrelentingly upsetting hordes of Windblows (sic) end-users with their forced-update machinations culminating in the "shock and awwwwww" (sic) of system shutdown and OS installation damage scenarios all over the world.

So OSX (and experimentally, a Linux flavor that supports external MIDI and USB-connected controllers nicely), will also get my vote as a new host for Resolve here.
[Re]Pete

Image

ResolveStudio | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | iMac 27" hosting Resolve 16 beta on Mojave is pending

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:27 pm
by Jeff Brass
Peter Benson wrote:
Jeff Brass wrote:As for APC40 Resolve Edition (-PB edit) thats not going to be much use for your editing....not just because its for Mac only and you are on windows......


Why *not*? Sounds like you've not sufficiently informed on that solution, to advance such a warning, though your good intention is very much appreciated.

Suppose Color Page, Edit Page, Cut Page and other functions like audio sweetening, mixing, mastering and even animation -- all on a pending OSX Mojave iMac setup is in the planning stages here, for an exciting, new workflow paradigm with various awesome controllers without the curse of Micro$haft (sic)?

Redmond is unrelentingly upsetting hordes of Windblows (sic) end-users with their forced-update machinations culminating in the "shock and awwwwww" (sic) of system shutdown and OS installation damage scenarios all over the world.

So OSX (and experimentally, a Linux flavor that supports external MIDI and USB-connected controllers nicely), will also get my vote as a new host for Resolve here.
[Re]Pete

Image

ResolveStudio | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | more...


excuse me for trying to be helpful ... your signature says windows, not mac, and from the page you linked to it shows and talks about grading - little about editing, and even Glenn himself says it is more color page focused.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:50 pm
by Peter Benson
Jeff Brass wrote:
Peter Benson wrote:
Jeff Brass wrote:As for APC40 Resolve Edition (-PB edit) thats not going to be much use for your editing....not just because its for Mac only and you are on windows......


Why *not*? Sounds like you've not sufficiently informed on that solution, to advance such a warning, though your good intention is very much appreciated.

Suppose Color Page, Edit Page, Cut Page and other functions like audio sweetening, mixing, mastering and even animation -- all on a pending OSX Mojave iMac setup is in the planning stages here, for an exciting, new workflow paradigm with various awesome controllers without the curse of Micro$haft (sic)?

Redmond is unrelentingly upsetting hordes of Windblows (sic) end-users with their forced-update machinations culminating in the "shock and awwwwww" (sic) of system shutdown and OS installation damage scenarios all over the world.

So OSX (and experimentally, a Linux flavor that supports external MIDI and USB-connected controllers nicely), will also get my vote as a new host for Resolve here.
[Re]Pete

Image

ResolveStudio | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | more...


excuse me for trying to be helpful. your signature says windows, not mac, and from the page you linked to it shows and talks about grading...little about Editing
No worries. As stated, an iMac system is in the process of being set up (*this very day, in fact) for Resolve 16 Beta experimental use though my host PC with Resolve Studio has been abandoned due to a Microsoft forced-update attempt having destroyed a brand-new G-Technology USB-C external drive during a Deliver Page rendering session -- although my ASUS Windows 8.1 machine was not even connected to ethernet nor WiFi.

Windows users beware
Micro$haft is insanely ruining many users' hardware and Windows installations.


As you know, Resolve was very much Color Page focused as was also the case with Glenn's Contoller hardware/software solution via Tachyon Consulting -- but that's the past as it's evolved from mere Color Page functionality substantially.

So, though not applicable, thanks for your expressed desire to alert me.
[Re]Pete

ResolveStudio | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | iMac 27" hosting Resolve Studio16 Beta on Mojave OS is pending

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:43 am
by Glenn Venghaus
As promised in earlier post , a small video of the super smooth VIEWER/MINI TL JOG in CUT page as currently implemented . Handy for the occasional editor that is not in the market for BM's excellent new edit keyboard. Example is for the Beatstep version but similar in all controller kits.


Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:09 pm
by JeffreyWalther
For the moment, I just do not see the benfit over a generic keyboard and some 3rd party wheel controller.

Maybe BMD could create some demonstration video to convince people like me. If that keyboard is so focused on DaVinci, there should be a video with a proof of concept, showing what is possible.

In other words: i need a reason to buy this hardware, but it seems that I could accomplish the same with 3rd hardware.

@BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:35 pm
by Glenn Venghaus
For the moment what i saw from that contoller is that it allows direct clip and cut manipulation as well as extensive trimming all with the jog wheel in the CUT page. Not just jog and scroll.
Basicaly your hands never leave the controller while cutting/assembling.
That is so far not possible with any 3rd party controller (yet) and a huge difference and selling point if you are a full on editor.
That and the overall build quality , i would easily buy one if i was an editor. For occasional work there are other options. It all depends.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:49 pm
by JeffreyWalther
Glenn Venghaus wrote:For the moment what i saw from that contoller is that it allows direct clip and cut manipulation as well as extensive trimming all with the jog wheel in the CUT page. Not just jog and scroll.
Basicaly your hands never leave the controller while cutting/assembling.
That is so far not possible with any 3rd party controller (yet) and a huge difference and selling point if you are a full on editor.
That and the overall build quality , i would easily buy one if i was an editor. For occasional work there are other options. It all depends.


I see.
But maybe it would help to have some demonstration videos, focused on certain workflows like:
- music video edits
- commercial edits
- film edits
- documentary edits

Then I could see the benefit for my own work and then invest those $1k. I really need to know, if I can get faster with this particular hardware or if I get slower*. But for now, ....no demo, no reason, no purchase.

So please BMD, give me some demos and reasons to buy it. I already use Studio and it would be great if I could improve and speed up my workflow.

---
* in the old days of Premiere, I was used to have a jog shuttle with buttons, but after the switch to Resolve, I found this hardware unnecessary next to my keyboard and mouse.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:57 pm
by BMD Web Engineering
Hi Jeffrey,

In this video, Grant demonstrates how the DaVinci Resolve Editor Keyboard interacts with the Cut page. He starts talking about the keyboard at 1:49:30.



David

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:40 pm
by JeffreyWalther
David Tymon wrote:Hi Jeffrey,

In this video, Grant demonstrates how the DaVinci Resolve Editor Keyboard interacts with the Cut page. He starts talking about the keyboard at 1:49:30.



David


Hello David,

Thanks for that video link.

I see and understand the benefits of the new Cut Page (thanks to this guy here). I also can see the benefit of the keyboard in that case.

But I am still not convinced by the entire concept for my work.
I do a lot of music video edits, i.e. I have a master clip and a lot of alternative shots that have to be manually aligned and synced over the tracks. The shots are made one after another, so TimeCode alignment is not possible.

So my question is:
can I use only the keyboard to insert my master clip, then add another clip on top (2nd track), then sync them up by rolling the 2nd clip frame by frame until it matches to the master clip,

can I then go on by inserting cut points and removing portions of the 2nd clip, where I want to shine through the master clip?

Can I insert and sync a 3rd clip the same way and switch back and forth between all tracks to remove/delete portions of the clip with leaving the gap?

Is this possible with the Cut Page and the keyboard?

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:38 am
by Marc Wielage
JeffreyWalther wrote:For the moment, I just do not see the benfit over a generic keyboard and some 3rd party wheel controller.

Until you actually try it, you'll never know. I'm not an editor, but I can say if I was, another $995 wouldn't bother me in the least. Hell, even if it only saved me 15 minutes a day, it'd still pay for itself in a few months.

You always have the freedom to work any way you want to. Hell, you could work with any keyboard and mouse as long as they were USB-compatible. Do what makes you happy.

I don't believe the keyboard is shipping until August, so we'll see what changes between now and then.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:00 pm
by Glenn Sakatch
My setup includes the eucon transport which has a very nice wheel on it. If you do a lot of editing, and don't use a wheel, you are missing out. Can't remember what I paid for it, but it was well worth it, even 7 or so years later...main difference is I can use it with Avid or Resolve. Due to desktop real estate, I would only buy Resolve keyboard if it worked with Avid as well. The chance to combine my keyboard and transport would be too much to pass up, but I still do my cutting in Avid.

1000 dollars is a drop in the bucket for that kind of functionality.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:54 pm
by JeffreyWalther
The keyboard is very focussed on the Cut Page, which seems to have some weird limitations:
- no deletion of in/out ranges
- no moving clips appart from another (leaving gaps)

So, neither the Cut Page nor the keyboard seem to be useful for my work. :roll:

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:27 am
by Dermot Shane
berzerker wrote:Has anyone actually tried the shuttle pro 2? Does Davinci let you assign the same things the keyboard will. Or is it locked like the tangent desks.

<snip>

Well... you also could buy a ShuttlePRO v2 and assign those additional buttons by your own for a fraction of the keyboard price.


like Glen S i mainly use a Artist Transport, but do have a Contour around so i dusted it off, and i tested it on v16.. all good - you would prolly want a StreamDeck beside the Contour tho

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:45 am
by Chris Leutger
I work at a hospital and support our dictation and transcription systems. I remember when I first met the transcriptionists, some of whom were using $400 Kinesis keyboards which are crazily...ergonomic, split bowls of keys left and right, every key at your fingertips without lifting your hands. At first I thought, who needs a $400 keyboard? Then I came to realize that someone who types 90 wpm for 8-10 hours a day because every single word typed is money in their pocket. People who have to reach a certain line count to get their bonus need one. Every time they touch the damn mouse they're losing money. So yeah, $1000 in the grand scheme of things is no biggie to those who need to shave off time to make money.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:44 am
by Marc Wielage
Glenn Sakatch wrote:My setup includes the Eucon Transport which has a very nice wheel on it.

Note that the Avid Transport was end-of-life'd some months back, for reasons known only to Avid.

Re: @BMD: DaVinci Keyboard for $1000 - Why?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:40 pm
by Robert Baker
Peter Benson wrote:Kudos to Marc.
Now, off to placing an order at https://posttools.tachyon-consulting.co ... 16fd43adaa for cost-effective, comprehensive speedy access, visual feedback and control of Resolve 16 functions at the behest of @Glenn Venghaus -- that awesome DaVinci Resolve forum contributor.


[Re]Pete
P.S. Glenn, please contact me ASAP


Thanks for that link. That controller looks amazing!