Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

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Gabe Darvas

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Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostSat Jul 13, 2019 10:40 am

Hello,

I'm planning to buy a new computer for editing a small budget feature that will be shot with the BMPCC4K camera. (My current old MBP13" is inadequate for anything else than normal HD...).

My first choice would be an iMac, but I don't know which one... I try to be cost effective, yet I need a properly working solution. Should I go for a maxed out 21" or maybe a middle range 27"? The 15" Macbook Pro looks nice, but for the price I think I get higher specs in an iMac.

I want to edit in Resolve, then color correct and deliver from the same software.

As of me, I'm really not into 4K, but I know that it becomes/became the standard. I would be happy with a full HD or 2K Prores :-), but if my camera can handle 4K, so then I think I should use it. I always can go back to lower resolution, but going bigger is impossible later. And of course, due to the nature of the shoot with available light mainly, I'd like to go the Blackmagic RAW route (though I don't know which one yet)

Could you help me in recommending setups? For example what would be an entry level setup, then something more powerful?
Gabe D.
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MishaEngel

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostSat Jul 13, 2019 2:59 pm

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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostSun Jul 14, 2019 6:14 pm



Hello,

I checked these, but... I still couldn't find reviews or comparison for my needs... Like what would be a minimal setup in iMac? Or is an iMac 21" with Vega GPU might be a good solution, or a better solution, than a 27" iMac with weaker specs? Or take a 21" iMac + eGPU maybe?

I need a reasonable priced system, yet one which is capable of doing the work well.... I plan to shoot Blackmagic RAW 4K, I should be able to edit, color correct, deliver this with the system. I want a stable system but doesn't break a bank...
Gabe D.
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MishaEngel

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostSun Jul 14, 2019 7:47 pm

Gabe Darvas wrote:I want a stable system but doesn't break a bank...


Apple has no stable system that doesn't break a bank.
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JPOwens

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostMon Jul 15, 2019 3:43 pm

Gabe Darvas wrote: Blackmagic RAW 4K, I should be able to edit, color correct, deliver


Fairly straightforward.

For complete analysis (for Resolve 15, but will change with the release of version 16):
https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/ ... _Guide.pdf

But this is what you need to know:

If you want to go the iMac route, 27" Retina5K PRO with 32GB GPU RAM preferably 64 or even 128 going forward.

I have an iMac Retina 5K (non-Pro) which works fine, and I've even doodled around with some BRAW PC4K-originated footage. It is slow at UHD resolution.

If you want to go big, then you should expand your budget.

jPo, CSI
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostMon Jul 15, 2019 4:38 pm

JPOwens,

iMac Pro is out of my budget I'm afraid... I need to find the adequate specs in normal iMac...

How would these compare?

iMac 21,5", 4K, 3GHz, Core i5, 16GB RAM, Radeon Pro Vega 20 4GB HBM2 - about 2850 USD in my country

iMac 27", 5K, 3.1GHz, Core i5, 16GB RAM, Radeon Pro 575X 4GB GDDR5 - about 3000 USD

iMac 27", 5K, 3.7 GHz, Core i5, 16GB RAM, Radeon Pro 580X 8GB GDDR5 - about 3460 USD
(or choosing it with Vega 48 8GB, but thats plus about 600 USD)
Gabe D.
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostMon Jul 15, 2019 5:16 pm

Or, what about eGPU or eGPU Pro with an iMac 21,5"?
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JPOwens

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Jul 16, 2019 5:03 pm

Gabe Darvas wrote:What about eGPU or eGPU Pro with an iMac 21,5"?

iMac 27", 5K, 3.1GHz, Core i5, 16GB RAM, Radeon Pro 575X 4GB GDDR5 - about 3000 USD


This might be an interesting combination. But you will want the extra real estate of a 27" for the User Interface, and as long as you match the eGPU with the on-board graphics, this would get you a long way down the road.

Above all else, yo do not want to run out of memory. Stack up a couple of streams of 4K BRAW and Resolve will exit to the desktop, no warning. Maybe, a quick note that you are nearly out of memory, and then bam.

jPo, CSI
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Jul 16, 2019 7:03 pm

JPOwens wrote:
Gabe Darvas wrote:What about eGPU or eGPU Pro with an iMac 21,5"?

iMac 27", 5K, 3.1GHz, Core i5, 16GB RAM, Radeon Pro 575X 4GB GDDR5 - about 3000 USD


This might be an interesting combination. But you will want the extra real estate of a 27" for the User Interface, and as long as you match the eGPU with the on-board graphics, this would get you a long way down the road.

Above all else, yo do not want to run out of memory. Stack up a couple of streams of 4K BRAW and Resolve will exit to the desktop, no warning. Maybe, a quick note that you are nearly out of memory, and then bam.

jPo, CSI


jPo, I just posted in the Resolve part of the forum, waiting to get more feedbacks (I thought I posted it in the wrong place this is why I don't get reactions...)

This iMac 27" combo + eGPU Pro is simply out of my league price-wise... I either can go a cheaper system+ eGPU or a better equipped iMac 27" with 8GB vram...
Gabe D.
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Jul 16, 2019 7:28 pm

I also see photos of people who use the new Mac mini with eGPU or eGPU Pro....

Please tell me your opinions about possible combos...

What if a cheaper iMac (21.5"/27") + eGPU or eGPU Pro VS. a more maxed iMac 27" with 8GB gpu (Radeon or Vega)
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JPOwens

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Jul 16, 2019 11:03 pm

Gabe Darvas wrote:What if a cheaper iMac (21.5"/27") + eGPU or eGPU Pro VS. a more maxed iMac 27" with 8GB gpu (Radeon or Vega)


You should consult the Resolve configuration guide.

It is not generally my practice to use sealed platforms, as they will limit your capability in one form or another. The only iMac experience I have is with my administration machine that has a licensed version of Resolve running on it for project ingest and troubleshooting. I don't use it for grading. I don't want to burn it out.

The eGPUs are really designed for field work with macBook laptops, so that DITs don't get overwhelmed trying to wrangle massive files at UHD+ resolution, and they don't generally do a ton of color correction other than pre-visualing treatments for DPs on the fly. On-set is not usually a calibrated grading environment. That said, it would still be a good idea if you can match one with your on-board Mac GPU. And it would have to be a match (check out the specs of the one you are thinking about - type and VRAM) or it won't be worth the effort.

Budget is one thing, value is another. Go as inexpensively as you can to do this first project... maybe...

Hope you aren't throwing good money after bad when you sort out what you will need for the next one.

jPo, CSI
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostWed Jul 17, 2019 6:23 am

jPo,

in Blackmagic Config guide for Resolve 15, as the Resolve 16 guide I could not find, mentions this two options also:

- iMac mid 2017, 27", Retina 5K, 4.2Ghz, Core i7, 32GB RAM, Radeon Pro 580 8GB of VRAM
- iMac mid 2017, 27", Retina 5K, 3.5 Ghz, Core i5, 16 GB RAM, Radeon Pro 575 4GB of VRAM

So how do you think this config would work? Its on sale as its the 2017 model
iMac 27" Retina 5K, 3,8GHz, 8GB RAM (i could extend it to 16GB) Core i5, Radeon Pro 580 8GB of VRAM

?

(I'll post this post in the other topic in the Resolve forum, as I hope to get as much feedback as possible before pruchase...)
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Uli Plank

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostWed Jul 17, 2019 9:08 am

I’m quite happy with mine (see below). It cuts through 4K BRAW like butter.
If you experience too slow rendering, you may add an eGPU later.

IMHO, the iMac Pro is so overpriced that I’d rather go for a PC if I’d need that much power.
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostWed Jul 17, 2019 11:40 am

Uli Plank wrote:I’m quite happy with mine (see below). It cuts through 4K BRAW like butter.
If you experience too slow rendering, you may add an eGPU later.

IMHO, the iMac Pro is so overpriced that I’d rather go for a PC if I’d need that much power.


Uli,
The sale for the mid-2017 is just over, the machine I was thinking about is not available anymore, its said, because I would have saved a lot of money with that one :-(
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Uli Plank

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostWed Jul 17, 2019 2:17 pm

What about refurb or second hand?
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wr1nkles

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Jul 23, 2019 7:19 pm

I've been reading up on computers too. This company "Puget Systems" pugetsystems.com has a lot of good info in their online guides on what you need to build the best machine for Resolve including Fusion. I learned a lot from it. Even if you don't build the best, they tell you whats best for the money.

At first I was going to get a maxed out iMac. Then reading that Resolve is built to run on NVIDIA cards and utilize CUDA. iMac's have cheaper AMD cards and are not optimized, though will obviously still work.

I thought I'd get a eGPU to make beef up the GPU ability, but ideally you need to use the same GPU card the iMac comes with for compatibility. Also Fusion can only access 1 GPU at a time, so it better be a good one.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is get a PC. I'm a life long Mac person, use to be an Apple Certified Tech & Tech Coordinator, and I plan on building a PC for Resolve. If you spend some time looking around for deals, it won't cost you as much as the maxed out iMac and will perform better.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Jul 23, 2019 11:57 pm

[quote="Gabe Darvas"]Or, what about eGPU or eGPU Pro with an iMac 21,5"?[/quote]

Gabe: Does your current laptop have Thunderbolt 3? If it does, you might want to start with an eGPU and see if that gives you enough power. As much as I like Blackmagic Design equipment, I don't think the eGPU Pro is worth the money. For $1200 you get a Vega 56 with 8G of memory in the Pro, but for $1100 you can get a 16G Radeon VII in an OWC chassis. If it is still not fast enough, you can upgrade your computer to a relatively weak laptop or iMac with Thunderbolt 3. The eGPU will not be wasted since Resolve makes use of it and you can connect it to another computer when you upgrade. I think if you pair it with a computer that has a slow GPU though, you need to tell Resolve to just use the external or tell your Mac to prefer the external for Resolve.

If you have any doubts, try to rent an eGPU or a computer for a weekend and see.
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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Gabe, if you prefer to in the Mac ecosystem, you might consider staying with mostly HD. You can shoot UHD or 4K BRAW, but you may want to generate optimized media for processing in your Resolve in HD. You can use your original media and Deliver at 2 fps or 5 fps, may take several hours but it can finish.

At this time, start small. In a few years, you may be in a better position. Look over the excellent advice and don’t go to low in your specs or Resolve won’t function. I’d only use an i5 if you have the External GPU. Better to use i7 and the largest and fastest GPU you can afford.


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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 8:19 pm

Uli Plank wrote:What about refurb or second hand?


I strongly recommend checking out the certified refurbished Macs from the Apple Store. Many of these are actually new machines, returned to Apple unopened, and they go through rigorous QA. I've only bought refurbished Apple products for the past 12-15 years and have never been disappointed, although you can't customize them so sometimes you have to wait for exactly what you want to show up. That's how I got my current Mac Pro, which cost about $700 less than a new one and it had exactly the specs (RAM, GPUs, CPU, etc.) I wanted.
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davorin

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 8:31 pm

Ever thought of going the tonymac way? (o;

I use an older self-built i7-7700 system running macOS 10.13.6 and had no problems for far using DRS...well have to admit that I haven't done any 4K on it. Also other applications just run fine..like those from Serif....or previously Adobe CC (which got replaced by DRS and Serif ;o).

I intend to replace my Mac system this winter (hopefully xmas bonus pays out fine ;o) with a newer Intel system and a Radeon VII GPU running 10.14.x..or 10.15.x by then...

If you want to use a Mac privately for video editing/compositing then I would suggest to maybe consider this road...this also gives you the chance to select system components based on your budget, not just the whole system alone...so you could start with a cheaper GPU and later on exchange it with a more powerful one.

And as a bonus...you then can even install the Intensity Pro 4K on your self-built Mac and use it without problems (o;


I will even build now a new mac system for my girlfriend as a replacement for old 2011 iMac 27" (o;
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Frank Engel

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostWed Jul 31, 2019 12:54 pm

davorin wrote:I use an older self-built i7-7700 system running macOS 10.13.6


Running MacOS on non-Apple computers violates the license agreement and thus is illegal.

Encouraging others to engage in illegal practices is even worse than performing them yourself.

If you can't afford legitimate Apple hardware consider using Linux instead.
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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostWed Jul 31, 2019 4:30 pm

As mentioned before, but maybe not clearly enough - why not going for an offline workflow? You could have 4K final film and still edit easily on your old machine. For editing I think this is a great way, if money is an issue. If you buy a new computer anyway and use Resolve, maybe a PC is a better choice? Or a small Aple laptop with eGPU? Should be all fine. I'm on MBP 15", but considering an eGPU for the next years to come.
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostWed Aug 14, 2019 8:54 pm

Hi all

So... What do you think what would be the lowest cost yet STILL OKAY WORKING computer for Resolve 15/16 for my BMPCC4K? :-)

My current laptop is old, mid 2012 MBP 13", so I think not even an eGPU could save it...

If I buy a new Mac Mini + Blackmagic eGPU with 8GB VRAM then I still need a monitor and then I'm not cheaper than an iMac... So maybe an iMac 21.5 with 16GB ram and eGPU with 8GB VRAM?

Or as many of you suggested: I should shoot 4K BRAW, yet edit offline (in this case what resolution/qaulity I can edit offline?), and at the end I leave the machine for a few weeks to render :-D
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MishaEngel

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostWed Aug 14, 2019 9:11 pm

Use the Blackmagic RAW Speed Test 1.4 and you know what your current system can handle.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostThu Aug 15, 2019 1:42 am

You can't get the smaller screen with a GPU that's good for 4K. If you are currently happy with HD, go ahead.
If 4K is in your immediate future, go for the 27" and the Radeon 580 Pro, if money is short.
And never buy RAM from Apple! AFAIK, you can still add RAM by yourself in the 27" model. Adding an eGPU to the smaller one is not really cheaper in the end.

And, yes, you can work very well with BRAW in an HD timeline and switch it to UHD before rendering.
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostFri Aug 16, 2019 5:18 am

MishaEngel wrote:Use the Blackmagic RAW Speed Test 1.4 and you know what your current system can handle.


Current system? You mean my old mid-2012 MBD 13"? :-D 1080p max...
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostFri Aug 16, 2019 5:36 am

Uli Plank wrote:You can't get the smaller screen with a GPU that's good for 4K. If you are currently happy with HD, go ahead.
If 4K is in your immediate future, go for the 27" and the Radeon 580 Pro, if money is short.
And never buy RAM from Apple! AFAIK, you can still add RAM by yourself in the 27" model. Adding an eGPU to the smaller one is not really cheaper in the end.

And, yes, you can work very well with BRAW in an HD timeline and switch it to UHD before rendering.


Personally I would be happy with 1080p, I really don't feel the need for 4K, 6K etc... Its much more about lighting, misé-en-scene for me, not really into the K-War :-) But I want to stay current, and as I have this beautiful camera, then I would be stupid not to use it...

Questions:
-BRAW 4K and Prores 4K has different system needs, or the same? I mean, with Prores 4K can I get away with a cheaper computer?
-What the Radeon Pro 570x/575x with 4GB RAM is enough for?
-a 21,5" iMac with Radeon Pro Vega 4GB HBM2 memory + 16/32GB memory, how it compares to an iMac 27" with Radeon Pro 580X 8GB and 16B memory?
-16GB or 32 GB is okay?
-Whats the order of importance? GPU, memory, then processor?
-What would be a system requirement and workflow if I go the offline editing mode? What iMac 21.5/27 with thich GPU is okay for that? Because at the end I guess it still needs to render all the footage to 4K...

I know there are pros here who work with these system on a daily basis and its important for them to have the best system for speed and reliability. I don't do it on a daily basis, I do a project from time to time. So I need a system that is capable to do what I want, I don't mind if its a little bit slower, or takes more time to render, etc... Of course I want a realiable machine and one that can do the job, but I don't need the best, but the minimum so to speak...
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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostFri Aug 16, 2019 10:14 am

Can you get DaVinci 15 running on your old Mac? If yes, why not trying out with some sample footage (maybe 4K ProRes) in offline edit to get a feeling? Maybe with an external monitor attached. It's just good to know this process and all steps involved to decide, if it's an option for you or not.
Please have a look at this video, it describes offline editing in Resolve very well, but on a PC:
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Uli Plank

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostFri Aug 16, 2019 11:06 am

As long as you stick to HD for output, a 4 GB GPU will be fine and you'll get beautiful images out of a 4K camera. But if you want to deliver 4K (or UHD) it should be an 8 GB GPU.
16 GB RAM is fine as long as you don't go too deep into Fusion.

CPU and GPU power is just speed, but VRAM is also stability.
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostFri Aug 16, 2019 5:22 pm

thadeusz wrote:Can you get DaVinci 15 running on your old Mac? If yes, why not trying out with some sample footage (maybe 4K ProRes) in offline edit to get a feeling? Maybe with an external monitor attached. It's just good to know this process and all steps involved to decide, if it's an option for you or not.
Please have a look at this video, it describes offline editing in Resolve very well, but on a PC:


My mid 2012 MBP 13 runs Resolve, but.... even struggles with Prores HD... :lol:
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostFri Aug 16, 2019 5:24 pm

Uli Plank wrote:As long as you stick to HD for output, a 4 GB GPU will be fine and you'll get beautiful images out of a 4K camera. But if you want to deliver 4K (or UHD) it should be an 8 GB GPU.
16 GB RAM is fine as long as you don't go too deep into Fusion.

CPU and GPU power is just speed, but VRAM is also stability.


You mean that even if I edit in proxy with optimized media, if I want to deliver in 4K, then the Radeon 575X with 4GB ram is not enough? But with Radeon 580X with 8GB ram I can edit BRAW natively? Are you sure?!?!
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Uli Plank

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostSat Aug 17, 2019 3:14 am

If you use any filters or a few grades, 4K needs to fit into your GPU when rendering, there is no way around it.

But with my system below I can play BRAW 4.6K at 60 fps in a UHD timeline without a hiccup, and it's not even an i7. The 32 GB don't matter much for Resolve (as long as you don't work on feature-length projects), only for Fusion.
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostSat Aug 17, 2019 9:22 pm

Uli Plank wrote:If you use any filters or a few grades, 4K needs to fit into your GPU when rendering, there is no way around it.

But with my system below I can play BRAW 4.6K at 60 fps in a UHD timeline without a hiccup, and it's not even an i7. The 32 GB don't matter much for Resolve (as long as you don't work on feature-length projects), only for Fusion.


And what if I shoot not BRAW, but 4K Prores? Then it has lower system requirements?
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Uli Plank

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostSun Aug 18, 2019 2:41 am

No. BRAW is a very efficient codec.
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostSun Aug 18, 2019 5:53 am

Uli Plank wrote:No. BRAW is a very efficient codec.


My concern now is, that I have to find the most optimal solution resolution/format wise, that makes me possible to do the film on an iMac (max I can get due to cost: i5, 32GB ram, Radeon 570x or 575x), from start to finish/delivery....

Editing proxy/optimized media sounds Okay for me. But color grading and delivery is what I fear in case of 4K and Braw. As I calculated I would have about 6-6.5 TB footage of 4K Braw or 4K Prores, I need 1 HDD to archive it... 1 HDD to backup... And I need a HDD to edit on. I think of single drive, TB3, drive. RAID in mirror mode does not increase speed. If I get a Lacie 2Big 8TB in Raid 0, stripped mode, for speed, then it also needs a backup drive due to high risk of failure.... Or not?
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Uli Plank

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostSun Aug 18, 2019 1:17 pm

You'll need the 580 for 4K. Period. Don't skimp on the GPU.

16 GB would be enough, you can always divide your project into 'chapters'. And don't buy RAM from Apple, it's overpriced.

Yes, a striped RAID is four times less secure than a single drive. But why not use a fast striped drive for working and single USB drives for backups if money is short?
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rick.lang

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostSun Aug 18, 2019 2:04 pm

Gabe, I run my Pegasus2 R6 24TB as a RAID 10. So you have the best of both worlds. I have had one (mysterious) drive failure; the system continues to run minus the ability to backup its companion drive. Replaced the drive and system recovers very quickly.

I’ve thought about only striping the RAID, but don’t trust myself to do adequate backups. The Mac’s Time Machine might suffice for some folks but that requires a single drive and nothing is large enough so it’s the traditional approach that requires thoroughness and dedication.


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Uli Plank

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostMon Aug 19, 2019 1:03 am

There are programs for the Mac that can backup to more than one device.

But I'd rather go the route of separate backups:

- one for the system, which should fit on a single device.
- one or several others of original footage and project data only.

As Rick wrote, a RAID 10 is pretty safe for work, also keeping your caches or optimized media.

In the very rare case that such a RAID get's lost, you can reconstruct the project from originals and project data.
The latter should be saved frequently, but don't take too much space.

And remember to keep double backups in a separate place (think thieves, fire or water).
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostMon Aug 19, 2019 7:20 pm

Uli Plank wrote:You'll need the 580 for 4K. Period. Don't skimp on the GPU.

16 GB would be enough, you can always divide your project into 'chapters'. And don't buy RAM from Apple, it's overpriced.

Yes, a striped RAID is four times less secure than a single drive. But why not use a fast striped drive for working and single USB drives for backups if money is short?


Uli,
As I was thinking in the last few days, right now I don't want to deliver in 4K, 2K or HD is okay for me.

The question is: should I go and record in 4K Prores or Braw then? Or stay with HD?

I don't have problem recording 4K, its good to have, but I'm concerned that how this compromised iMac will be able to handle it, even if I go for HD finish.... After all this 4K footage has to go through the system and rendered to HD, right? So it has to be capable to make proxies, color grade, deliver from it....

One other way could be going full Prores way, recording 4K Prores, finishing HD Prores... How about that in terms of system requirements? Or, as you stated, if 4K, then 580x is a must?

(to even more complicate the question, in the Cinematography topic, I'm concerned that Braw HD is cropped, while Prores HD uses the whole sensor.... :-)
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostMon Aug 19, 2019 7:21 pm

rick.lang wrote:Gabe, I run my Pegasus2 R6 24TB as a RAID 10. So you have the best of both worlds. I have had one (mysterious) drive failure; the system continues to run minus the ability to backup its companion drive. Replaced the drive and system recovers very quickly.

I’ve thought about only striping the RAID, but don’t trust myself to do adequate backups. The Mac’s Time Machine might suffice for some folks but that requires a single drive and nothing is large enough so it’s the traditional approach that requires thoroughness and dedication.


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Rick, for this project I'm happy if I can have single drives in the budget, not Raid 10 :-D
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rick.lang

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostMon Aug 19, 2019 8:26 pm

Gabe, got a narrative film lately I’ve been capturing ProRes 444/422 HQ UHD and delivering HD. On Saturday I’m likely going to move to BRAW Q0 to have the benefit of 12bit Colour throughout and apparently better results downscaling in post (Resolve) rather than in camera. It will be low light and I may need to push the ISO 3200 footage. I feel better about pushing raw than ProRes.

For general purposes, if you can manage the footage and some extra time in post, I’d recommend that approach. If you’re shooting BRAW 8:1/12:1 or Q5, you may not even have to worry about ‘extra’ storage space compared to ProRes 422 HQ.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostMon Aug 19, 2019 11:58 pm

In my experience the timeline resolution dictates the VRAM needs, not the source format.
So, you should be OK with 4 GB.
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rick.lang

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 2:31 am

Uli is correct that 4GB should be sufficient for HD; that’s all I have although sometimes I use all of the GPU cycles as measured by Activity Monitor.


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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 6:34 am

Rick, Uli,

As I just wrote in the Cinematography part of the forum, my main concern is that if I shoot 4K Braw or 4K Prores, even if I edit in HD proxies and deliver in HD, sometime the Resolve software has to deal with the original 4K material... I mean, after editing is done at the color grading stage Resolve will use the original 4K material, right? And render the final HD from that.... So with Radeon 570X/575X with 4GB vram, will it be enough to do this job?

And, regarding the different compression ratios of braw, like 3:1, 5:1, 8:1, Q0, etc.. How does it affect computer system? I would assume that 3:1 compression ratio is not that compressed, so file sizes are bigger, but thus the iMac won't have to compute that much with 3:1 ratio, then for example with 8:1 compression ratio... But it seems to me that everyone suggest higher compression ratios here, with smaller file sizes, but won't it need more computing power than from iMac to be able to work with it?

Could you also tell me that is there a difference in Radeon Pro 570x vs 575x? Both has 4GB vram... But while I could get an iMac 27",3.0 Ghz, 6core, 8th gen i5, 32GB ram and 570x for 2530 USD then the 575x version with 3.1Ghz, 8th gen i5, 32Gb ram is about 2800 USD.... Almost 300 USD difference
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Uli Plank

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 11:51 am

The 575 has some more computing power, but that difference would, first of all, make the calculation of demanding effects slower or faster. The OpenCL values by Geekbench show 117.000 points for the Radeon Pro 580, the 575 gets 99.800, and the 570 89.500.

But why would you want to waste your money on Apple's RAM? You can still add your own in the 27" model.

Resolve has pretty clever programming and scaling is not so 'expensive' in processing power. So, they are first scaling and then treating the footage with grades, filter, and effects if you use 4K originals in an HD timeline.
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 1:08 pm

Uli Plank wrote:The 575 has some more computing power, but that difference would, first of all, make the calculation of demanding effects slower or faster. The OpenCL values by Geekbench show 117.000 points for the Radeon Pro 580, the 575 gets 99.800, and the 570 89.500.

But why would you want to waste your money on Apple's RAM? You can still add your own in the 27" model.

Resolve has pretty clever programming and scaling is not so 'expensive' in processing power. So, they are first scaling and then treating the footage with grades, filter, and effects if you use 4K originals in an HD timeline.


Uli,
I don't want to buy RAM from Apple.... (There's an Apple reseller here who also sells Blitz Micro 2666Mhz 32GB RAM to iMac 27"for about 1/3 of the cost of Apple prices..
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 1:20 pm

Rick, Uli,

As I just wrote in the Cinematography part of the forum, my main concern is that if I shoot 4K Braw or 4K Prores, even if I edit in HD proxies and deliver in HD, sometime the Resolve software has to deal with the original 4K material... I mean, after editing is done at the color grading stage Resolve will use the original 4K material, right? And render the final HD from that.... So with Radeon 570X/575X with 4GB vram, will it be enough to do this job?

And, regarding the different compression ratios of braw, like 3:1, 5:1, 8:1, Q0, etc.. How does it affect computer system? I would assume that 3:1 compression ratio is not that compressed, so file sizes are bigger, but thus the iMac won't have to compute that much with 3:1 ratio, then for example with 8:1 compression ratio... But it seems to me that everyone suggest higher compression ratios here, with smaller file sizes, but won't it need more computing power than from iMac to be able to work with it?

Could you also tell me that is there a difference in Radeon Pro 570x vs 575x? Both has 4GB vram... But while I could get an iMac 27",3.0 Ghz, 6core, 8th gen i5, 32GB ram and 570x for 2530 USD then the 575x version with 3.1Ghz, 8th gen i5, 32Gb ram is about 2800 USD.... Almost 300 USD difference
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Uli Plank

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 2:04 pm

OK, I was under the impression you were referring to a complete offer by Apple (prices are different here anyway).

But I tried to answer the rest of your questions as well as I could since I have the 580 and no problems with any BRAW. I can't compare with the 570 or 575.
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Pushblocks

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 2:07 pm

I'd suggest the 2019 i9 iMac 27 with 1tb or 512 ssd, 8gb apple ram then upgrade it easily later. $2,999 with 512 ssd or $3,299 with 1tb ssd USD on Adorama/B&H Photo. I bought the max configuration except I went with 8gb ram option & upgraded the ram myself in under 5 minutes. Watch Max Yuryev on youtube for real time comparisons with Resolve Studio on Youtube. Resolve 16 Studio is now enhanced even better for AMD since his videos. He even compares the Mac mini's with External GPU's. Adorama/B&H Photo has apparently dropped the price a few hundred since I bought mine. As for 4gb & RAW I don't recommend it cause I had a 2013 i5, 4gb graphics card & 32 gb ram configuration, I always had choppy playback & after 1 year or so it got super hot so I powered it down asap. Upon powering it up I got the blue screen of death & then one day it had vertical lines on the screen when I powered it up. I use crucial 2666 1.2v CL19 RAM for the 2019 iMac.
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Gabe Darvas

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Re: Which Mac for BMPCC4K?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 2:44 pm

Uli Plank wrote:OK, I was under the impression you were referring to a complete offer by Apple (prices are different here anyway).

But I tried to answer the rest of your questions as well as I could since I have the 580 and no problems with any BRAW. I can't compare with the 570 or 575.


Okay, thanks anyway

It would be great to get a feedback on this whether 570x vs 575x because there is a steep difference in the price, about 300 USD

With iMac 27", 3.0Ghz,i5, 8GB ram, 570X with 4GB Ram now there's a sale and I get 2x4GB Ram for free, so thats 16GB total + I could get 32GB ram for a fair price, then it would have about 56GB ram... this all would cost about: about 2500 USD
(while iMac 27" ,3.1Ghz, i5, 8GB ram, 575x with 4 GB ram + 32 GB ram (so total ram 40GB) costs about 2800 USD)
Gabe D.
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