HDR Editing - Sumo19/ OSEE LCM215

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santosramos.com

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HDR Editing - Sumo19/ OSEE LCM215

PostTue Aug 06, 2019 9:34 pm

Hello everyone! I'm planing to start learning to color grade HDR footage from RED and BMPCC 4k camera.
And I'm not sure what do I need to buy to be able connect the HDR production monitor to my 2019 Macbook pro.

I currently own the Blackmagic Design UltraStudio Mini Monitor and the JVC ProHD studio monitor for Rec-709 color grading. And I'm planing to buy the Sumo19 or the OSEE LCM215 HDR monitor.

The question is, what card or adapter do I need to buy to be bale preview 1080 HDR on the production monitor?

Do I need need to get a 3G-SDI, 6G-SDI, 12G-SDI card or adapter?

The guy at B&H recommended the AJA Io 4K for $2000

Black magic recommends the:

Blackmagic Design DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G Capture & Playback Card - $900

Blackmagic Design DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K ; $200


Blackmagic Design UltraStudio 4K Extreme 3 - $3000

I shoot mostly 60p stock footage.


Thank you for your help.
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santosramos.com

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Re: HDR Editing - Sumo19/ OSEE LCM215

PostTue Aug 06, 2019 10:32 pm

One more question.

It seem that the new mackbook pro supports HDMI 2.2. HDR.

Does this mean that I could connect the Atomos sumo using a thunderbolt to HDMO adapter?

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HKQ2 ... mi-adapter
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: HDR Editing - Sumo19/ OSEE LCM215

PostWed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 am

AJA won't work with Resolve so B&H suggestion is pure crap.

Mackbook Pro is not very powerful and you may have problems while grading UHD.
You need one of BM TB3 devices. Unfortunately if you are after UHD and HDR then only model is high-end one: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... /W-DLUS-09
which is not cheap.
Cheapest UHD HDR capable (but up to 30p) is Mini Monitor 4K, but this is PCI-E device.

If you want to do any proper HDR work you need a proper HDR monitor, one which supports real HDR (with 1000nits minimum), not some pseudo HDR. None of the current Mac screens is HDR capable at all. Those monitors are not cheap and there really isn't any cheap one.

If your monitor supports manual control over HDR mode than in theory you can use any card, but you have to be careful with setup (eg. us Rec.709 with PQ setup for monitoring and during export convert this to Rec.2020). In this case you can use any BM box eg. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... /W-DLUS-10
You current mini monitor is also fine in this case up to 30p (your planned HDR monitor is just HD).
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santosramos.com

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Re: HDR Editing - Sumo19/ OSEE LCM215

PostWed Aug 07, 2019 3:27 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:AJA won't work with Resolve so B&H suggestion is pure crap.

Mackbook Pro is not very powerful and you may have problems while grading UHD.
You need one of BM TB3 devices. Unfortunately if you are after UHD and HDR then only model is high-end one: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... /W-DLUS-09
which is not cheap.
Cheapest UHD HDR capable (but up to 30p) is Mini Monitor 4K, but this is PCI-E device.

If you want to do any proper HDR work you need a proper HDR monitor, one which supports real HDR (with 1000nits minimum), not some pseudo HDR. None of the current Mac screens is HDR capable at all. Those monitors are not cheap and there really isn't any cheap one.

If your monitor supports manual control over HDR mode than in theory you can use any card, but you have to be careful with setup (eg. us Rec.709 with PQ setup for monitoring and during export convert this to Rec.2020). In this case you can use any BM box eg. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... /W-DLUS-10
You current mini monitor is also fine in this case up to 30p (your planned HDR monitor is just HD).
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santosramos.com

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Re: HDR Editing - Sumo19/ OSEE LCM215

PostWed Aug 07, 2019 3:37 pm

Thank you for your reply Andrew!

One correction, I'm editing 60p on a 30p timeline, slow-motion.

I have been color grading BRAW 3.1 and RAW RED footage ( no proxy media ) on my new MacBook Pro for the last 2 month and it works just fine for my needs!

I totally understand what you mean....I should get a nice computer and proper HDR monitor to color correct, but at the moment, I just want to start playing with HDR and maybe covert some of my RED footage to HDR.

I was looking at the Osee monitor because I read some good reviews on the REDuser group, but I'm not sure if the monitor is good for HD or HDR.

Mystery Box had a very good review of the Sumo19. They compared the Sony BVM-X300 (Studio Reference Monitor), SmallHD1703 P3X (Production Monitor) and Atomos Sumo 19. I think the sumo19 could work for my needs. I read that a regular HDR monitors has around 400NITS and the sumo19 has 1000NITS.

Here is the link to the BVM-X300 (Studio Reference Monitor), SmallHD1703 P3X (Production Monitor) and Atomos Sumo 19 review.

https://www.mysterybox.us/blog/2017/12/ ... os-sumo-19

The guys over CRFTSHO made a very nice video about the Sumo19.



They are using the Sonnet eGFX Breakaway box and the Blackmagic Design DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G Capture & Playback Card.

I would be happy just to be able to display a single HDR frame on a external monitor just for color grading.



Thank you again!
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: HDR Editing - Sumo19/ OSEE LCM215

PostWed Aug 07, 2019 4:26 pm

If you want something minimum maybe Sumo is fine.
What you're planning should work. Just avoid monitors which claim HDR, but have peak brightness at eg. 400nits.
VM-X300 is a high-end monitor (replaced now by different model as well). Those represent top end level and cost small fortune.
Need of additional card is related to what HDR monitor you will get. IF you get one which can be manually set to HDR and gamut then you can stay with your mini monitor. Then you set project to Rec.709 with PQ ad monitor to the same. As export setting you may need to set Rec.2020 as this is expected color space for HDR files (your files will be Rec.709 limited, but inside Rec.2020 color space- which is ok for budget grading). If Sumo does P# then you can jump to P3 gamut (still export as Rec.2020 for better compatibility).
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santosramos.com

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Re: HDR Editing - Sumo19/ OSEE LCM215

PostWed Aug 07, 2019 7:25 pm

You information really helps, thank you!

I did some more reading and called Atomos.

The guys at Atomos said that I would need a minimum of 6G-SDI or HDMI to properly preview the video on the Atomos Sumo19. I guess the Blackmagic Design DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K card would work with the sumo.
The Blackmagic Design DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K supprts SD/HD/3G/6G-SDI Output and HDMI.

I would need to get the Sonnet eGFX Breakaway Box.




If I understand correctly, Rec709 has 100NITS, Cloog 800NITS, Slog2 1600NITS and Clog-2 1600NITS. The sumo has 1200NITS and supports, 709, HDR, P3, HQ and HLG. It seems that I should be able to see all the information.

The BMPCC 4K shoots raw but I'm not sure if raw has a similar exposure to Clog-2?



Thank you!




Andrew Kolakowski wrote:If you want something minimum maybe Sumo is fine.
What you're planning should work. Just avoid monitors which claim HDR, but have peak brightness at eg. 400nits.
VM-X300 is a high-end monitor (replaced now by different model as well). Those represent top end level and cost small fortune.
Need of additional card is related to what HDR monitor you will get. IF you get one which can be manually set to HDR and gamut then you can stay with your mini monitor. Then you set project to Rec.709 with PQ ad monitor to the same. As export setting you may need to set Rec.2020 as this is expected color space for HDR files (your files will be Rec.709 limited, but inside Rec.2020 color space- which is ok for budget grading). If Sumo does P# then you can jump to P3 gamut (still export as Rec.2020 for better compatibility).
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: HDR Editing - Sumo19/ OSEE LCM215

PostWed Aug 07, 2019 8:30 pm

Question is what reverse color matrix will Sumo use in case of UHD incoming signal? Does it read it from SDI?
MiniMonitor won't use Rec.2020 when converting Resolve data into SDI signal. It will always use Rec.709. We need the same on Sumo, but reverse matrix. Everything will work as long as on both end same math (just reversed ) is applied. Then you don't need necessarily card with Rec.2020 support. If Sumo applies matrix based on SDI singling and then on top of this processes signal according to setting the all will be fine.
Problem is if Sumo can't use eg. PQ EOTF with UHD signal coming as Rec.709 flagged.

Not sure is Sumo is good choice. It's more shooting monitor than grading.

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