I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

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Terence Kearns

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I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostFri Jul 20, 2018 1:28 pm

Seems a bit silly that I have to export to an intermediate format and then transcode just to get h265 which is far superior to h264.

If the issue is "lack of support" then the issue is that is't not being supported (by the likes of BMD).

Is it actually supported yet? am I missing something?

I see BMD supports it in it's other hardware products - really ironic (in a bad way) that it's flagship video software does not :(
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psychfilms

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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostFri Jul 20, 2018 10:00 pm

I asked the same question since my camera is a Samsung NX1 that encodes 4K in-camera to H.265 (HEVC). I do not want to re-encode simple edits to long video where no effects or adjustments to the video have been made.

The discussion was enlightening on how DR works with video internally, and possibly why BMD may never implement. Here is the thread:

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=73631

PS: I'm new to DR because I'm restoring a silent era movie that was digitized in a professional CODEC (DPX), which my favorite editor (Magix Video ProX), does not support. However: Video ProX (and believe now Vegas Pro 15 - now owned by Magix), can import AND export H.265 (HEVC) natively.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostFri Jul 20, 2018 10:03 pm

I thought it's in the Studio version.
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Jim Simon

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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostFri Jul 20, 2018 10:21 pm

I would make use of an H.265 export option as well, if it were done right.

Meaning, the settings include a user adjustable CQ option.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSat Jul 21, 2018 1:36 am

I would not recommend using H.265 (or 264) going from DPX into another NLE.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSat Jul 21, 2018 8:34 pm

Uli Plank wrote:I would not recommend using H.265 (or 264) going from DPX into another NLE.


Sorry for the confusion. I do not plan to re-encode the .DPX project in H.265. I'm restoring the .DPX images for the silent-era film, then for editing I will transcode to ProRES or DNxHD.

Any suggestions are welcome.
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Cary Knoop

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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSun Jul 22, 2018 12:28 am

I agree that HEVC should be a welcome addition.

I would like to see HEVC having a few useful options.

Automatic insertion of meta data linked to the YRGB Color Managed / ACES output settings and delivery range options
Color space info (Rec709, Rec2020, P3), limit versus full range, HDR options (HLG, PQ, whitepoint etc).

Basic encoding parameters
CRF, CBR, Gop size (all the way down to all-intra), streaming optimize parameters.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSun Jul 22, 2018 8:47 am

Cary Knoop wrote:I agree that HEVC should be a welcome addition.

I would like to see HEVC having a few useful options.

Automatic insertion of meta data linked to the YRGB Color Managed / ACES output settings and delivery range options
Color space info (Rec709, Rec2020, P3), limit versus full range, HDR options (HLG, PQ, whitepoint etc).

Basic encoding parameters
CRF, CBR, Gop size (all the way down to all-intra), streaming optimize parameters.


I support that - plus output in 10 Bit.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 23, 2018 12:23 am

Agreed. H265 may not be the codec of choice for many but I find it very useful when uploading longer files to YouTube since I can get the same quality as H264 with a much lower bitrate (ie: smaller file, faster upload).

To date I've been transcoding with Handbrake for larger files but it's just another inefficiency in the workflow that need not be there.

However, if H256 was going to be added, *please* use either the Intel Quick Sync or the NVIDIA hardware encoders as at least an option -- because they are much faster (albeit at the cost of a little quality) than CPU rendering (unless you've got a *beast* of a computer).
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 23, 2018 2:08 am

I think the main reason Resolve should support HEVC (but also VP9) is that it is going to be a very important deliverable format in the coming years.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 23, 2018 2:36 am

But you know that many of the advanced features above are not supported by hardware?
You'll need a beefy machine.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 23, 2018 2:39 am

Uli Plank wrote:But you know that many of the advanced features above are not supported by hardware?
You'll need a beefy machine.

Well, if you want to go advanced you have to have the beef :)
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 23, 2018 5:34 am

Why not simply Master out of Resolve to DPX or Uncompressed RGB then use dedicated third party Apps to make your Deliverables as required? Sure, it requires some extra storage space but a high quality Master, stored externally on portable media can often prove a good long term investment.
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Cary Knoop

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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 23, 2018 5:39 am

Craig Marshall wrote:Why not simply Master out of Resolve to DPX or Uncompressed RGB then use dedicated third party Apps to make your Deliverables as required? Sure, it requires some extra storage space but a high quality Master, stored externally on portable media can often prove a good long term investment.

True!
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 23, 2018 9:50 am

Yes HEVC would be very useful, but so would a quality H264 encoder. The one built in to Resolve is truly dreadful regardless of quality settings. Significant macroblocking and banding that you don't get with Premiere using same footage and similar settings. Weirdly enough, using the standard MP4 setting (not to be confused with their H264 preset) yields much better results.

Of course as suggested you can create a high quality master then use other software to convert, however, this is not practical for everyone and storing say a 20GB high quality copy vs 200-500GB master is a no-brainer in terms of cost. I edit the equivalent of a feature length film every single day so it rapidly adds up.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 23, 2018 10:15 am

Tony Hailstone wrote:...Of course as suggested you can create a high quality master then use other software to convert, however, this is not practical for everyone and storing say a 20GB high quality copy vs 200-500GB master is a no-brainer in terms of cost. I edit the equivalent of a feature length film every single day so it rapidly adds up.

With 1-2TB USB 3 drives now as cheap as chips, they make for great external Mastering along with the your Resolve .drp and grading stills. One for each Project, just like Betacam tapes on a shelf! (just get your 'feature length film every single day' client to pay for them...)
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 23, 2018 6:45 pm

Uli Plank wrote:But you know that many of the advanced features above are not supported by hardware?
You'll need a beefy machine.


Depends on your GPU. I have a NVIDA QUADRO P2000 which has H.265 Encoding built into the hardware.

From NVIDIA "H.264 and HEVC Encode/Decode Engines deliver faster than real-time performance for transcoding, video editing, and other encoding applications with one dedicated H.264 and HEVC encode engines and a dedicated decode engine that are independent of 3D/compute pipeline."
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 23, 2018 6:50 pm

psychfilms wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:But you know that many of the advanced features above are not supported by hardware?
You'll need a beefy machine.


Depends on your GPU. I have a NVIDA QUADRO P2000 which has H.265 Encoding built into the hardware.


So does the 1080 TI, but the encoder is not very good.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 23, 2018 7:18 pm

Rather than mastering out then using something to encode, it would be nice to be able to frameserve.

For Sony Vegas, I had frameserve setup to encode in Handbrake. Took a little more time, but no more space to get great H264 directly.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostTue Jul 24, 2018 2:10 am

Well, the Studio version does HEVC encoding on the Mac.
8 bit HEVC is even accelerated with an AMD card (580 in my case), but 10 bit is CPU only and dreadfully slow with only four cores. As already said, hardware encoders don't deliver the best quality possible, they are made for speed.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostTue Jul 24, 2018 3:50 am

Craig Marshall wrote:Why not simply Master out of Resolve to DPX or Uncompressed RGB then use dedicated third party Apps to make your Deliverables as required?


It takes more (unbillable) time.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostTue Jul 24, 2018 3:55 am

Tony Hailstone wrote:Yes HEVC would be very useful, but so would a quality H264 encoder. The one built in to Resolve is truly dreadful regardless of quality settings.


I have to disagree with that. I find the High setting to be nearly indistinguishable from the original, and even the Medium setting so close to the original that only 400% pixel peeping shows off the difference.

I find the included H.264 encoding a very suitable replacement to the x264 that I was using with Adobe.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostTue Jul 24, 2018 4:03 am

Jim Simon wrote:I find the included H.264 encoding a very suitable replacement to the x264 that I was using with Adobe.

True, because the Adobe one is not very good either.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostFri Jul 27, 2018 3:41 pm

Cary Knoop wrote:the Adobe [H.264 encoder] is not very good either.


I agree that Adobe's isn't, which is why I was using x264. I don't agree with the 'either' part, as I find Resolve's H.264 encoder quite good, obviating the need for x264.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostFri Jul 27, 2018 9:04 pm

With the recent release of Scratch Play Pro which can deliver H.265 at up to 12bit, there's now an excellent, low cost and extremely fast Delivery alternative, especially for PC users who might need to Export 'Certified' ProRes: http://www.assimilateinc.com/products/scratch-play-pro/
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSat Jul 28, 2018 2:14 am

Cary Knoop wrote:
psychfilms wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:But you know that many of the advanced features above are not supported by hardware?
You'll need a beefy machine.


Depends on your GPU. I have a NVIDA QUADRO P2000 which has H.265 Encoding built into the hardware.


So does the 1080 TI, but the encoder is not very good.


That depends on what program is calling it. I get excellent results from ffmpeg!
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSat Jul 28, 2018 7:16 am

Dan Sherman wrote:That depends on what program is calling it. I get excellent results from ffmpeg!


What options do you use on the command line?
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 4:54 am

Cary Knoop wrote:
Dan Sherman wrote:That depends on what program is calling it. I get excellent results from ffmpeg!


What options do you use on the command line?


Sorry it took so long for me to reply, my first-born arrived last Saturday so as you can imagine life's been very hectic lately.

This is what I currently use.

Code: Select all

ffmpeg -i inputfile.ext -c:v hevc_nvenc -preset slow -profile:v main10 -level 6.2 -tier high -rc:v vbr_hq -qmin:v 21 -qmax:v 21 -s:v 3840x2160 -flags +cgop -pix_fmt yuv420p -c:a aac -b:a 128k -r:a 48k -movflags +faststart -y -v quiet -stats output.mp4
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 7:04 am

I am curious as to why you set the qmin and qmax to the same values.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 7:17 am

Cary Knoop wrote:I am curious as to why you set the qmin and qmax to the same values.



I want it locked in at a constant value, in this case 20 as it seems the quallity factor is always rounded up. As you get close to 0, bitrate grows exponentially, so you have to be careful with giving the algorithm to much freedom.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 9:18 am

Just a heads up if you are on a Mac. It does encode both HEVC 8 bit in hardware and 10 bit in software.
But if you ever dare to do 10 bit (maybe you have 18 cores?), don't forget to deactivate the automatic sleep.

The process is so slow that sometimes the Mac seem's to 'think' there is nothing going on and tries to put the drives asleep. When you come back Resolve will have stopped and complain about time-out for delivery of frames. Doesn't happen with 8 bit, it's fast enough.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSun Jul 29, 2018 6:44 pm

Dan Sherman wrote:
Cary Knoop wrote:Sorry it took so long for me to reply, my first-born arrived last Saturday so as you can imagine life's been very hectic lately.

Was the event recorded in log or raw?

Just kidding, congratulations!
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostMon Jul 30, 2018 3:34 pm

Cary Knoop wrote:Just kidding, congratulations!

Thank you!




Back on the topic, I really with BM gave us more options to control the output of both h.264 and h.265. It would be really nice to be able to go into the advanced settings section, and have access to all the settings the various command line tools give us access to.

It does requires a greater level of understanding of how the codecs work than some might want to acquire, but you can get amazing results once you know enough.

For example:

tiers and levels for example, can really bight you in the back side if your are doing CRF encoding and don't have them set correctly.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostWed Aug 01, 2018 10:40 pm

Sorry to raise an old thread again but I just installed the latest version of Handbrake and am really impressed that using Intel QSV with default quality settings, it can render a 1080p project to H256 at 75fps from a DNx file rendered from Resolve. Even when I go to maximum quality (slowest render) it's still renders faster than realitime -- with the Intel GPU maxxed out to 100% and the CPU running at about 40%.

This is on an Intel i7 8700 running Windows 10 with 16GB of RAM, a GTX 1060/6GB and a rather average 2TB mechanical hard drive holding the files.

I would just *love* BM to give us QSV support because for those of us whose primary target is YouTube, this is a fantastic option for quick renders producing small file-sizes of more than satisfactory quality.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostWed Aug 01, 2018 11:13 pm

You can also insert HDR metadata into Nvidia (most likely also Intel) GPU encoded h265 with this:

https://github.com/SK-Hardwired/nv_hevc_hdr_patcher

you have to export with ffmpeg to elementary h265 file, use patcher and mux it back.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostThu Aug 02, 2018 2:30 am

Uli Plank wrote:Just a heads up if you are on a Mac. It does encode both HEVC 8 bit in hardware and 10 bit in software.
But if you ever dare to do 10 bit (maybe you have 18 cores?), don't forget to deactivate the automatic sleep.

The process is so slow that sometimes the Mac seem's to 'think' there is nothing going on and tries to put the drives asleep. When you come back Resolve will have stopped and complain about time-out for delivery of frames. Doesn't happen with 8 bit, it's fast enough.


You need to get off that mac and try a 1950x with a couple of 1080ti cards. It's like going from a Yugo to a Ferrari. Add in a hardware SSD RAID for media and an NVMe C drive, along with a BMD Minimonitor, and you'll wonder why you paid so much for that Mac.
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Re: I hope we get h265 HEVC encoding (export)

PostSun Dec 23, 2018 12:59 am

Please google my name gereral1 and goto my youtube channel. I teach how to export prores Dnxhr HQ UHD to output file then using my encoder that has 10bit pipeline to create h265 hevc file with HDR that will activate any HDR Hardware TV or be used in Hardware HDR player. The files retain HDR from Davanci Resolve if you follow my videos on this topic. I released 5 videos. One is to capture 422 pro res 10bit with decklink 4k cards retaining 10bit pipeline at 405mb/s. The other is how to export to youtube max bitrate files. the 3rd 4th are HDR to SDR with HDR SDR lut for baked in dynamic range into rec709 8bit for older tvs and hardware and the last is the video encoder setup to show how to import a file (capture or hevc) and output hdr with meta tags correctly in the video file. BT2020 and the hdr standard. This information is hard to find so you are more than welcome to use my workflows with davanci resolve studio to help with 10bit and 8bit workflows with or without hdr. These are used also to capture HDR and encode HDR to trigger HDR captures. Please use this material for studio work ONLY. Do not use this material to steal other peoples work. I run a small studio and use this information to record capture and produce videos. Davanci resolve is excellent software if you know how to use it. The products are excellent if you know how to use them.

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